mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Your statement I bolded... your a #s and stats guy. 31 lottery picks, 5x the worst team has won. Thats a 16% outcome for being the worst. If you have the worst record the slot your actually MOST likely to pick from is 4th.

So your hurting the development (and in turn devalueing your most coveted assets) of your team for what? If you got some guys in there to show these kids how to play and finish and win 20-25 games... something to build on not only do those players benefit and grow but it makes the destination more attractive, as your not that far away.

Unless you think vets add no value... than its a moot point.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

One (knowledgable) fan was on board and you have to factor in the choice... embrace this and watch the team you love or simply unplug for a couple years.

Your statement I bolded... your a #s and stats guy. 31 lottery picks, 5x the worst team has won. Thats a 16% outcome for being the worst. If you have the worst record the slot your actually MOST likely to pick from is 4th.

So your hurting the development (and in turn devalueing your most coveted assets) of your team for what? If you got some guys in there to show these kids how to play and finish and win 20-25 games... something to build on not only do those players benefit and grow but it makes the destination more attractive, as your not that far away.

Unless you think vets add no value... than its a moot point.

The slot(s) that you are most likely to pick is 1-3. You have a better chance at #4 than #1. #1 is still a 25% chance. Hinkie figured that in 4 years of tanking (ouch), he will get the number 1 at least once. So far, this has not worked out that well based on luck. Having vets that help you get to 20-25 wins will never give you a chance at a star and Hinkie believes that you have no chance to win unless you have at least a top 20 player in the league.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

teams are not copying SA in shot selection. They are in defense and ball movement. They have 2 stars who just can't shoot the 3. Holdovers who are so great that they have overcome this.

They are copying GS and Cleveland and if you like it or not, Houston who went to the WCF with a really crappy team.

On that note Houston, the poster child of the style of play you covet and quite frankly are so in bed with its ruined any objectvitiy you have has an offensive rating BELOW the Knicks this year.

I personally find that style of play entertaining. The one who really got it right was DAntoni and showed that using smaller more skilled players could compete with the big plodders if you could jack the pace so high that eventually the volume of better shots would trump.

But in many ways your hurting your own arguement for this being the "new NBA" or the only way to do this. You build a style of play around good players, not force good players to play a certain way because stats paint a certain picture.

We have some really good shooters from the midrange. Triangle makes sense. 3 years ago we had Melo, Tyson and a bunch of guys who could bomb away. That year playing your style made sense. See where I am going with this?

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

teams are not copying SA in shot selection. They are in defense and ball movement. They have 2 stars who just can't shoot the 3. Holdovers who are so great that they have overcome this.

They are copying GS and Cleveland and if you like it or not, Houston who went to the WCF with a really crappy team.

Holy revisionist history batman! That is as weak as it gets. If I told you they were a crappy team last year you would have laughed me off the board. Best guard in the league. Best center in the league. Great wing defenders with Ariza and Beverly, and a bunch of shooters.

On that note Houston, the poster child of the style of play you covet and quite frankly are so in bed with its ruined any objectvitiy you have has an offensive rating BELOW the Knicks this year.

I personally find that style of play entertaining. The one who really got it right was DAntoni and showed that using smaller more skilled players could compete with the big plodders if you could jack the pace so high that eventually the volume of better shots would trump.

But in many ways your hurting your own arguement for this being the "new NBA" or the only way to do this. You build a style of play around good players, not force good players to play a certain way because stats paint a certain picture.

We have some really good shooters from the midrange. Triangle makes sense. 3 years ago we had Melo, Tyson and a bunch of guys who could bomb away. That year playing your style made sense. See where I am going with this?

you really need to do a much better job researching before posting. Beverly did not play and I never ever said Howard is the best center in the league. He is as overrated as they come.

Houston got the the WCF finals because of HARDEN and their system. And, they actually gave the superteam a tough series.

Harden is playing badly this year especially defensively and the team around him still sucks. Harden is also acting like more of a prick this season so I am willing to jump ship on him in a heartbeat if this continues. I am tied to facts not to a position.

Good point about year 54. Wonder how such a bad team won so many games?

Many question the use of the triangle like Mr Lowe but you are completely sold ... great! Bombs away from mid range thats how efficient Dray is scoring his points LOL

You certainly have to build a system that works for your personnel. If you have players who can shoot the long 2 at a high rate and can't hit the 3, of course you play the percentages. SHOT CHARTS! However, how many players and teams can shoot at a high level from mid range? Remember the league avg < 40% while the league avg for 3's is 35%. Get the trend and why most teams are losing mid range shots? SA SA SA SA ... say it again and again but try to make sense out of it.

You can hang your hat on the party line triangle but I am sure that the triangle will be gone as we know it pretty soon. Even phil is smart enough and will be trending away from it.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

teams are not copying SA in shot selection. They are in defense and ball movement. They have 2 stars who just can't shoot the 3. Holdovers who are so great that they have overcome this.

They are copying GS and Cleveland and if you like it or not, Houston who went to the WCF with a really crappy team.

Holy revisionist history batman! That is as weak as it gets. If I told you they were a crappy team last year you would have laughed me off the board. Best guard in the league. Best center in the league. Great wing defenders with Ariza and Beverly, and a bunch of shooters.

On that note Houston, the poster child of the style of play you covet and quite frankly are so in bed with its ruined any objectvitiy you have has an offensive rating BELOW the Knicks this year.

I personally find that style of play entertaining. The one who really got it right was DAntoni and showed that using smaller more skilled players could compete with the big plodders if you could jack the pace so high that eventually the volume of better shots would trump.

But in many ways your hurting your own arguement for this being the "new NBA" or the only way to do this. You build a style of play around good players, not force good players to play a certain way because stats paint a certain picture.

We have some really good shooters from the midrange. Triangle makes sense. 3 years ago we had Melo, Tyson and a bunch of guys who could bomb away. That year playing your style made sense. See where I am going with this?

you really need to do a much better job researching before posting. Beverly did not play and I never ever said Howard is the best center in the league. He is as overrated as they come.

Houston got the the WCF finals because of HARDEN and their system. And, they actually gave the superteam a tough series.

Harden is playing badly this year especially defensively and the team around him still sucks. Harden is also acting like more of a prick this season so I am willing to jump ship on him in a heartbeat if this continues. I am tied to facts not to a position.

Good point about year 54. Wonder how such a bad team won so many games?

Many question the use of the triangle like Mr Lowe but you are completely sold ... great! Bombs away from mid range thats how efficient Dray is scoring his points LOL

You certainly have to build a system that works for your personnel. If you have players who can shoot the long 2 at a high rate and can't hit the 3, of course you play the percentages. SHOT CHARTS! However, how many players and teams can shoot at a high level from mid range? Remember the league avg < 40% while the league avg for 3's is 35%. Get the trend and why most teams are losing mid range shots? SA SA SA SA ... say it again and again but try to make sense out of it.

You can hang your hat on the party line triangle but I am sure that the triangle will be gone as we know it pretty soon. Even phil is smart enough and will be trending away from it.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

People talk about Philly as a place no one wants to play or whatever, but its easy to forget as bad as they are now that when Hinkie took over they had won 34 games and weren't a complete joke. They had Holiday, Young, Spencer, Turner etc. Not great pieces, but a good GM will work with that 34-win roster and get resourceful to land a couple draft picks and sign role players who fit the system of your coach and see if you can get back to .500. Or take a step back for a year by making some trades, but then push forward the following year. But they have gone from a bad but not terrible team, to a complete joke. The tank-job was intended for that, but what wasn't intended was for Hinkie to ruin the team's relationship with agents and players, and not have people take what they are doing serious.

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

People talk about Philly as a place no one wants to play or whatever, but its easy to forget as bad as they are now that when Hinkie took over they had won 34 games and weren't a complete joke. They had Holiday, Young, Spencer, Turner etc. Not great pieces, but a good GM will work with that 34-win roster and get resourceful to land a couple draft picks and sign role players who fit the system of your coach and see if you can get back to .500. Or take a step back for a year by making some trades, but then push forward the following year. But they have gone from a bad but not terrible team, to a complete joke. The tank-job was intended for that, but what wasn't intended was for Hinkie to ruin the team's relationship with agents and players, and not have people take what they are doing serious.

the last thing that Hinkie wanted was to be a 34 win team with a bunch of middling players. The tank was intentional and the next 2 years will be really telling to see if this was a failure or not.

Watching the way Brett Brown has this team competing with a small ball wide open system and these kids playing their azzes off is a positive sign.

All this team needs now is just one good vet guard. If I was them I would max out Conley but who knows what they want to do and what will be possible.

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

I agree. Okafor isn't spending the season home rehabbing and he isn't still in Europe. He already has star recognition and is traveling around the country with a bunch of guys that are the age of college sophmores and juniors. Not having any high character vets on that team ignores an important part of the developmental process these young players need. Maybe it doesn't fit with the gm's fixation with cap space/asset acquisition but his lack of attention to this detail is derailing the process.

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.
The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.
In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.
“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

good post. Especially the bold. If you have every spend an extended period of time on a team and gone through a few roster turnovers you know this. People around here really killed the Knicks for using spots on guys like Lance and Lou but those roles are critical.

The perfect example is Sota.. they have as good a young core as any team and what guys did they bring in? KG, Dre Miller, Tayshaun Prince... a bunch of old guys who know how to win games.

Take it from KP himself:

Though Porzingis didn’t work out for Philadelphia before the draft, the 20-year-old said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if he were on a team that hadn’t won a game more than a month into his rookie season. Fortunately, Porzingis said, he ended up in New York, playing alongside a perennial All-Star like Anthony, instead of being thrown into a disastrous rebuilding situation with no reliable veterans.

“Carmelo helped me a lot, taking off pressure, because there was a lot of pressure and expectations for me,” Porzingis said. “I’m still trying to constantly play good, but I’m very lucky to have Carmelo on my side, who is the leader of the team and will take care of it if I’m not having a great game.”

didn't they just bring in these vets? Of course Philly will have to do the same. I assume that it will start this off season.

the point is they didnt this year, needed to this year and its hurting them. Now you have 20 year olds acting their age. 7 guys who are 22 or younger and nobody older than 25. Does that strike you as balanced? Good planning? Good execution?

if your goal is to do a complete tank then it was a good plan. However, that has to change at some point or else Hinkie can't keep his job. Hiring those vets will not get you simmons.

As you said, it looks like the philly fans are still on board (for now).

Read something about veterans coming, or not coming, over to the Sixers, and it went along with what I've said- the way the team is set up right now, the only vets he will get are the guys out to leverage some extra money from Hinkie when he finally decides he needs some veteran leadership, and these might not be the kind of vets you want.

You read a lot of stuff about agents steering their players away from Hinkie- only way he changes this is by overpaying or constructing the type of team veterans would want to be a part of. So far he has done neither.

Not sure if he's shown the ability to put together a functioning team. You have a natural center (Noel) playing out of position. If Embiid comes back, you can't have him on the court with OK4.

You want Simmons...fine- but do his skills/usefulness conflict with Saric, a nice player who you used a lottery pick to get, and who seems to be waiting things out so he can get more money if he comes to the NBA.

I thought Simmons was a PF...draft him and you have to make trades to accommodate him, and...

...What great trades for living human beings has Hinkie made so far, anyway, and which of the top FAs came knocking on his door a few months ago?

He's created a franchise where the guy he ended up taking this year, and the number 4 pick-KP- did not want to work out for him prior to the draft.

Now you add the OK4 fiasco to Hinkie's poisonous mixture. No fines or suspensions to set a tone early on- Hinkie only reacts when the media turns up the rock that is the Sixers and shows the world what is going on.

Just not sure I would want him running the team at the end of this season if I was a Sixers fan.

thats fair. and the sixer fans will definitely have their say.

Also, I keep asking ... decent FA's have never really had interest in philly.

I would love if Hinkie gave a 4-5 interview and we could here his take. I am sure that it is wild and that we would come away with a lot to think about.

how about a trade then? They could take a good vet in a salary dump right? As Walt mentioned my biggest knock on Hinkie is he seems to have totally disregarded team building.

And you keep saying "new NBA" and "modern NBA" but there is one giant stain on the arguement that shows that is the best model. Its called the San Antonio Spurs. Remember them? Poster franchise thats looks ready to continue on being elite well after the 3 HOF players they had depart.

People can write articles about the triangle all they want. That system and those teams would have been JUST FINE in this modern NBA. All we have to look at is NBA titles with the triangle. All he have to look at with Hinkie's plan is terrible teams, a constant shuffle of players and a plan that goes against what the lottery was set up to prevent.

Im all for tanking when your season is shot. I get that. Knicks did it last year and look what it yielded.

People talk about Philly as a place no one wants to play or whatever, but its easy to forget as bad as they are now that when Hinkie took over they had won 34 games and weren't a complete joke. They had Holiday, Young, Spencer, Turner etc. Not great pieces, but a good GM will work with that 34-win roster and get resourceful to land a couple draft picks and sign role players who fit the system of your coach and see if you can get back to .500. Or take a step back for a year by making some trades, but then push forward the following year. But they have gone from a bad but not terrible team, to a complete joke. The tank-job was intended for that, but what wasn't intended was for Hinkie to ruin the team's relationship with agents and players, and not have people take what they are doing serious.

the last thing that Hinkie wanted was to be a 34 win team with a bunch of middling players. The tank was intentional and the next 2 years will be really telling to see if this was a failure or not.

Watching the way Brett Brown has this team competing with a small ball wide open system and these kids playing their azzes off is a positive sign.

All this team needs now is just one good vet guard. If I was them I would max out Conley but who knows what they want to do and what will be possible.