yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Phil is loading up on shooters:
Calderon
THJ
Melo
Larkin
Ellington
Hairston
Prigioni

Are you trying to ruin this thread. Get that Melo out of there

When Melo is not pounding the ball and shooting off rhythm he is actually a decent shooter and good from 3

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:He actually has offensive moves. Tyson has none just dunks. Defenses game plan to stop the lob and he is rendered useless offensively as we've seen on numberous occasions against good teams. The few good teams that actually bother to make defensive adjustments

He has moves but he still only manages 6 PPG and 0.5 assists? Imagine how bad he'd be without moves. All else being equal, I'd rather have the guy who gives 4 more points, 0.5 more assists but "has no moves." The "moves" are more important than the actual scoring results. I'm sure defenses see Dalembert as a liability and plan around that too.

Wait no per 36 numbers. I'm shocked.

Fair enough. PER 36, Tyson has the advantage in efficiency, assists, and turnovers but Dalembert has an advantage in total points actually (1.4 more).

blks and rebs go to Sam. I actually agree with you though.

Yeah, the whole discussion was about offense, though.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:He actually has offensive moves. Tyson has none just dunks. Defenses game plan to stop the lob and he is rendered useless offensively as we've seen on numberous occasions against good teams. The few good teams that actually bother to make defensive adjustments

He has moves but he still only manages 6 PPG and 0.5 assists? Imagine how bad he'd be without moves. All else being equal, I'd rather have the guy who gives 4 more points, 0.5 more assists but "has no moves." The "moves" are more important than the actual scoring results. I'm sure defenses see Dalembert as a liability and plan around that too.

Wait no per 36 numbers. I'm shocked.

Fair enough. PER 36, Tyson has the advantage in efficiency, assists, and turnovers but Dalembert has an advantage in total points actually (1.4 more).

blks and rebs go to Sam. I actually agree with you though.

Yeah, the whole discussion was about offense, though.

point is comparing the two its pretty much a push. We know Chandler is gone at the end of the year and best value is as an expiring contract and we were able to nicely cash that in getting some picks, young players and getting rid of our worst player in Felton

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Exactly! This was a desperate man's move that Phil made, which is peculiar because it alone will not get Melo to stay. If that's the case, why are we committing $22 million to a 33 year old PG and the hope that unknowns like Larkin and Ellington could make something of themselves? This is a bad move on so many levels.

I would not say desperate and certainly not great.. it is a reasonable move.. just think of what we re dealing with, when you have to tear down and rebuild you need to make a series of small moves.. now I don't like us taking on calderons salary, but if we move shumpert for a pick then it will help our cap wise a bit.. This move sends a clear sign that we are moving on without carmelo, at least I hope it does and for that reason alone I can live with it..

now I will say this, if we can parlay those two picks for a first rounder then it gets better..

carmelo anthony is GONE

Melonoma wrote:LOVE this trade.

Felton is gone and off the books for 2015.

We upgraded at PG and got a player who fits Phil's system.

We got back Dalembert who honestly can't be much worse than Chandler last year.

We got Larkin and 2 draft picks! We got a prospect and 2 draft picks in a deal involving Raymond Felton!!!

And now we may be able to move into the 1st or get other players back for Dalembert and Larkin.

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Exactly! This was a desperate man's move that Phil made, which is peculiar because it alone will not get Melo to stay. If that's the case, why are we committing $22 million to a 33 year old PG and the hope that unknowns like Larkin and Ellington could make something of themselves? This is a bad move on so many levels.

I would not say desperate and certainly not great.. it is a reasonable move.. just think of what we re dealing with, when you have to tear down and rebuild you need to make a series of small moves.. now I don't like us taking on calderons salary, but if we move shumpert for a pick then it will help our cap wise a bit.. This move sends a clear sign that we are moving on without carmelo, at least I hope it does and for that reason alone I can live with it..

now I will say this, if we can parlay those two picks for a first rounder then it gets better..

carmelo anthony is GONE

How exactly does this move convince anyone that we are moving on with out Melo, because we didn't trade for some overated fake star (because the league is full of those)

Exactly who should we be trading for that would give us a sign that were doing it for melo, IMO this trade goes down regardless of melo here or there

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Exactly! This was a desperate man's move that Phil made, which is peculiar because it alone will not get Melo to stay. If that's the case, why are we committing $22 million to a 33 year old PG and the hope that unknowns like Larkin and Ellington could make something of themselves? This is a bad move on so many levels.

I would not say desperate and certainly not great.. it is a reasonable move.. just think of what we re dealing with, when you have to tear down and rebuild you need to make a series of small moves.. now I don't like us taking on calderons salary, but if we move shumpert for a pick then it will help our cap wise a bit.. This move sends a clear sign that we are moving on without carmelo, at least I hope it does and for that reason alone I can live with it..

now I will say this, if we can parlay those two picks for a first rounder then it gets better..

carmelo anthony is GONE

How exactly does this move convince anyone that we are moving on with out Melo, because we didn't trade for some overated fake star (because the league is full of those)

Exactly who should we be trading for that would give us a sign that were doing it for melo, IMO this trade goes down regardless of melo here or there

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Exactly! This was a desperate man's move that Phil made, which is peculiar because it alone will not get Melo to stay. If that's the case, why are we committing $22 million to a 33 year old PG and the hope that unknowns like Larkin and Ellington could make something of themselves? This is a bad move on so many levels.

I would not say desperate and certainly not great.. it is a reasonable move.. just think of what we re dealing with, when you have to tear down and rebuild you need to make a series of small moves.. now I don't like us taking on calderons salary, but if we move shumpert for a pick then it will help our cap wise a bit.. This move sends a clear sign that we are moving on without carmelo, at least I hope it does and for that reason alone I can live with it..

now I will say this, if we can parlay those two picks for a first rounder then it gets better..

carmelo anthony is GONE

How exactly does this move convince anyone that we are moving on with out Melo, because we didn't trade for some overated fake star (because the league is full of those)

Exactly who should we be trading for that would give us a sign that were doing it for melo, IMO this trade goes down regardless of melo here or there

if anything it makes sense they added more shooters to create space which is what a Melo team needs. But these guys are always the same... they hear Melo doesnt like farts so they eat beans and post MELO BE GONE with great glee. You must understand they months of negative emotional posting at stake here. He leaves its like all their trolling was worth it (dont be suprised if they take credit).

"a melo team" you are a clown