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O.T Michael Sams : Im a college graduate, African American and Im A GAY FOOTBALL PLAYER
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MaTT4281
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2/14/2014  12:10 AM
playa2 wrote:
“Homosexual, bisexual, and transsexual groups spend tens of millions of dollars every year to market and normalize their aberrant lifestyles, yet after all these years there are still only a handful of advocates working solely to expose and counter their agendas,” he said.

I believe it was Jesus who said that. Actually, what did Jesus say about homosexuality? Ignore all that bull**** about loving one another as you love yourself, and get to the real message here!

This young man could and should have came to the league without all the fanfare , he chose not to and that was his choice. He can be gay if he wants to , but nobody cares if he likes men or women.

We have an 11 page thread, started by you, that proves that's apparently not true.

AUTOADVERT
NardDogNation
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2/14/2014  12:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/14/2014  12:12 AM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:The funny thing is that if no one said anything, she'd get reasonably far. I was initially attracted until I found out that she was transgendered. I know that makes me something of a hypocrite but that is a hurdle that I can't/not sure if I want to clear. Who knows though. We've all lip-locked randoms at college parties, bars, etc. You never know for sure what may have once been in that person's past. From that perspective, it's stupid to still have the stigma.

Funny story though, one of my friends had an internship in some southeast Asian country (I think it was Thailand). Anyway, she was out one night with her roommates at some mixer, when someone in her group (a dude) started hitting on a "girl" there. He inevitably takes her home to eventually find ****-and-balls where a vag is suppose to be. I forget exactly how the story goes from this point but I'm assuming that words were exchanged. I say that because a few days later, the guy is riding around on a moped and as he approaches an intersection, gets roundhouse kicked off the bike. It's the girl from way back when who evidently knew a little muy thai. Not only did he have his pride broken by getting the **** kicked out of him but also limped away with a broken arm, lol. Anyway, I can't help but feel that the story was bull**** because of the coincidence of it but it was funny as hell the way she told it to me.

Hilarious, Nard… I like the way you think, man. That and PG-13 wing work at the bar… priceless.

All these shenanigans we are talking about are going to scare everyone back into thinking Sam is a harbinger of mass sexual ambiguity, though! Think of the babies!

Lol, definitely. Hopefully others will realize that supporting the LGBT community isn't a "fire and brimstone" thing and will finally be comfortable with others that identify as such.

NardDogNation
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2/14/2014  12:16 AM
playa2 wrote:http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/ex-homosexuals-marriage-slammed-by-activists/

The reaction of Besen and other activists boils down to an inhuman hope for failure, said Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth about Homosexuality.

“In what other area of life do you see this?” he asked in an interview with WND. “Somebody tries to overcome drugs and falls back, and you say, ‘That’s it, nobody can change.’”

LaBarbera said the only people “who are not celebrating this marriage of a guy who was once involved in homosexuality are the homosexual radicals like Wayne Besen.”

“They are basically celebrating failure,” he said. “They’re all about focusing on the failures, because they can’t admit that homosexual identity and behavior is something you can change.”

LaBarbera said that while some who have declared themselves to be ex-”gay” have gone back to their old ways, Glatze represents many more success stories that don’t receive publicity.

Unfortunately, he said the establishment media focuses on messengers like Besen.

“I think if the average person knew about Michael Glatze, their whole view of the homosexual issue would change,” LaBarbera told WND. “And maybe that’s why people like Besen are so desperate to do anything they can to ridicule, to demonize, to mock, to deny that they even exist.”

He said homosexual activists don’t live up to their appeals for “dignity” and “tolerance.”

“Everything they once said they stood for, they are now doing the opposite toward ex-gays,” LaBarbera said.

‘People have called me a lot of things’

In his letter to his critics, Glatze says he and he new bride don’t want to become “political pawns.”

“I have never called myself an ‘ex-gay,’ though people have called me that,” he writes. “But, then again, people have called me a lot of things on account of the fact that I left homosexuality a few years back and decided that I felt more comfortable living heterosexually.”

Glatze explains he wanted to “make a little ‘shout out’ to all of the angry homosexuals in our country who are currently spreading all sorts of hate and aggression on pro-homosexual blogs.”

Michael and Rebekah Glatze

“Look, I am not interested in defending myself. I don’t really need to do that,” he writes. “I understand your plight, your point-of-view. I understand the desire to want me to be crazy, or lost in my head and mind, or confused. I understand that it would be just easier if I didn’t exist, or I would just crawl into a hole somewhere and die. But I’m not going to do that.”

In an plea for his and his wife’s safety, he asks that “instead of plotting my death, you may consider the possibility that I do have a legitimate right to life and a legitimate right to my own” decisions.

He says that since so many have commented on his wedding — photos from his personal account meant only for family and friends were widely distributed — he wants to make it clear that “I am not here to ‘force my agenda’ or my ‘lifestyle’ on anyone else.”

“I am here to live a good, God-honoring life,” he said. “And, as a Christian, I would be a liar if I didn’t tell people who God is, what He has done in my life and how He continues to provide for me in ways that are more numerous than I can count.”

‘No safer place than Bible school’

In a 2007 interview with WND, Glatze said he became aware of homosexual feelings at about the age of 14 and publicly declared himself “gay” at age 20. After a decade in which his leadership role in the homosexual activist world grew – but alongside it, a mysterious inner conflict – he said he finally was “liberated.”

After becoming editor of Young Gay America magazine at age 22, Glatze received numerous awards and recognition, including the National Role Model Award from the major homosexual-rights organization Equality Forum. Media gravitated toward him, leading to appearances on PBS television and MSNBC and quotes in a cover story in Time magazine called “The Battle Over Gay Teens.”

He produced, with the help of PBS affiliates and Equality Forum, the first major documentary film to address homosexual teen suicide, “Jim In Bold,” which toured the world and received numerous “best in festival” awards. Young Gay America’s photo exhibit, telling the story of young people across North America, toured Europe, Canada and parts of the U.S.

In 2005, Glatze was featured in a panel with Judy Shepard, mother of slain homosexual Matthew Shepard, at the prestigious JFK Jr. Forum at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government.

One of Glatze’s former colleagues in the homosexual-rights movement wrote a first-person article in the New York Times Magazine in June 2011 about his trip to visit Glatze, who was in Bible school at the time.

Benoit Denizet-Lewis concluded: “As I drove back to my hotel that night, I wondered if I would ever hear from Michael again. Might he call me someday to say that he was gay after all, and that his years as an ex-gay were just another pit stop in his lifelong pursuit of truth?

“It’s possible, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon,” Denizet-Lewis wrote.

“For an ex-gay intent on staying that way, there are few safer places in the world than a Bible school in Wyoming.”

If you can turn a gay man straight that means you can turn a straight man, gay. I suppose what that means is....someone like you could be persuaded to **** a dude....

DrAlphaeus
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2/14/2014  1:09 AM
I was wondering: are there any non-religious gay therapies out there in the US now? Don't doubt there was in say the USSR or other places back in the day... But this thread has a really interesting conversation... Gets heated but some really unique perspectives from gay folks talking to a 19-year old atheist who wishes he wasn't gay

https://atheistforums.org/thread-14389-page-1.html

I'd just say if it's two consenting adults, mazeltov. It's Valentine Day for cupid's sake!

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  10:17 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

DrAlphaeus
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2/14/2014  10:20 AM
jrodmc wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

Jesus, jrod, if that's your Christian spirit...

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  10:25 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.


because most of what it says is untestable.
You need to have a specific scientific hypothesis, if you want to see whether it will be proven right or wrong.

Do you have a mind? Is your mind in your brain or is your brain your mind? Is that testable?

Most of what the bible says is untestable; really?
1) It says man is depraved? How many test results would you like to see? Hey Nard, did anyone have to teach you to want what's not yours?
2) It speaks in infintesminal detail about the restoration of the country of Israel. The people, the restoration of Hebrew, etc. Testable?
3) It speaks to what is and isn't moral, and the results of immoral behaviour. Do you like laws against theft, perjury, murder? Testable?
4) It says Jesus existed. Testable?
5) The gospel of Luke has more geographical facts in it that haven never been disproven than any other ancient document we have. Testable?

DrAlphaeus
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2/14/2014  10:37 AM
jrodmc wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

Jesus, jrod, if that's your Christian spirit…

If I don't think it makes sense to me and I find detestable a god that would command genocide, yes… why should I believe it? Go ahead and believe it if it makes sense to you. You are a sinner from day one because of a fast-talking snake talking to mankind's progenitors. Because we have Adam's diary. Or Eve's. Or their kids? Or it was told to Moses? Who the Egyptians never seemed to write about. Nor do they record Joseph. And killing the Egyptian first-born was a great way to send a message to a pharaoh whose heart God made hard. Quite the puppet master. Yet he's awfully absent these days because he did his stand-up routine and dropped the mic at the ascension. Count the corpses in your Old Testament and get back to me. But it's all good because God became a corpse in Part Two. Then a resurrected body… or maybe a spirit body? I mean he appeared to Paul too. No way revelations and demons back then could be mental illness interpreted transcendently.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  10:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/14/2014  12:09 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

I stated the conclusions that I came to that is all. I didn't write this to claim that I was right and everyone else was wrong, just sharing my thoughts.

With that said the earliest known civilization documented in mans history is Mesopotamia which was created after the flood of Noah. If I am wrong I would like to be educated.

You can believe what you want to believe but the Bible is no real historical account. If it was, the book would be continually expanding and updating itself; while focusing on more than the accounts of a random nomadic tribe.

You know what's interesting about Christianity though? Every other present day religion maintains it's highest concentration of followers in the areas/regions they originated: the Buddhist/Daoist still dominants East Asia, the Muslim still dominants the Middle East, the Hindu in India. Christianity is the only religion whose message was so compelling that hardly anyone in the region where it began, still follows it. The highest concentration of Christians today, exist in conquered lands. The conquerors came with their Bibles and took the land and all the resources therein of the indigenous peoples'. Today, all that the progeny of these indigenous people have are their Bibles, while the descendants of the conquerors have no need for theirs'. I think that's all I needed to know about Christianity, when I stopped being a Catholic. Perhaps that's something you should consider as "a strong Black man".

Umm, Judaism says hello, mr. Scientific Method. As well as the 150 millions Christians in China; tell me, who conquered China? Did Chairman Mao use a bible? Your obvious ignorance puts you on a par with your little demi-gods like Sam Harris. And your arrogance as a lapsed Catholic makes you a pretty pathetic commentator on scripture.

I love you jrod. "Blessed are the snarky, for they shall inherit the Internet" Shout-outs to Dawkins and Harris in the same thread, impressive. Two horsemen down, Dennett and Hitchens left to go (All Praise and Cigarettes Be Upon Him)… don't worry, Hirsi Ali has his back. See, I can get all Culture War Inside Baseball too.

While we are whipping out Bible verses, what is up with I Samuel 18? Starts off with a serious mancrush, ends in David paying a wedding dowry with 200 foreskins from the Philistines! That book can really get all HBO, can't it? But like it says in the Bible, even the Devil can quote scripture. Or was that Shakespeare? Yes... the Devil can quote Shakespeare too.

jrod, we both believe man creates gods. I just think he created one more than you think he did. Or three more, depending on who is counting. ;)

Would love to know if my reference to passing struck a chord at all…


Yeah, I loved Hitchens. His debates with Douglas Wilson were classic fun. And Hitchens at least lived his creed out just about right up to his death. At a book signing, some poor Christian lady came up and said she was praying for him to recover from cancer and he said something to the effect of "Eff You lady!" Classic atheist.

Hey, what about Leviticus, your daughter's a paid ho, kill her! Stone the adulterers to death! Or the apostle Paul: Slaves obey your masters! Isn't quoting verses without any context at all fun! woooohooo! Ever ponder that maybe the bible's just chock full of negative examples? Or is it, whatever's in the book, it must condone!

DrA, I just think you don't bother trying to discriminate (oooh, bad word! bad word!) between who created who. Or testing all the validity of all these other man-ufactured gods. How are these other gods at describing (coherently) origins, meaning, morality and destiny?

So what do we have? Passing? That will strike a chord as soon as a someone shows a shred of material evidence that a preference/orientation is the same as race. How about surgically making a man into a woman! How about that in Europe they have the technology to alter a man to the point where he could bear children! That's all so great so if I glue a Porche symbol onto my Chevy Pick-up, will that help me pick up more chicks? Unreal.

What is truth, fellas? Whatever you decide to make it?

jrodmc
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2/14/2014  10:58 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

I stated the conclusions that I came to that is all. I didn't write this to claim that I was right and everyone else was wrong, just sharing my thoughts.

With that said the earliest known civilization documented in mans history is Mesopotamia which was created after the flood of Noah. If I am wrong I would like to be educated.

You can believe what you want to believe but the Bible is no real historical account. If it was, the book would be continually expanding and updating itself; while focusing on more than the accounts of a random nomadic tribe.

You know what's interesting about Christianity though? Every other present day religion maintains it's highest concentration of followers in the areas/regions they originated: the Buddhist/Daoist still dominants East Asia, the Muslim still dominants the Middle East, the Hindu in India. Christianity is the only religion whose message was so compelling that hardly anyone in the region where it began, still follows it. The highest concentration of Christians today, exist in conquered lands. The conquerors came with their Bibles and took the land and all the resources therein of the indigenous peoples'. Today, all that the progeny of these indigenous people have are their Bibles, while the descendants of the conquerors have no need for theirs'. I think that's all I needed to know about Christianity, when I stopped being a Catholic. Perhaps that's something you should consider as "a strong Black man".

Umm, Judaism says hello, mr. Scientific Method. As well as the 150 millions Christians in China; tell me, who conquered China? Did Chairman Mao use a bible? Your obvious ignorance puts you on a par with your little demi-gods like Sam Harris. And your arrogance as a lapsed Catholic makes you a pretty pathetic commentator on scripture.

The Chinese government only acknowledges 14 million Christians, although international bodies believe that the number is actually closer to 90 million. Whatever the real figure is, it is a far cry from the 150 million you suggest. Even if it were real, there are 1.3 billion people in China, which would mean that Christians would represent just 11.5% of the population. And if you know anything about China, you would know that it has been conquered/occupied by the Monogolians, Japanese and England. The English, in particular, occupied Hong Kong until 1997. So yeah, my comment still stands.

In the future, please remember that a response alone is not inherently a sufficient rebuttal. You have a tendency to shift arguments and create phantom conversations and resort to insults in order to help fill the vacuum. Just so you know though, you're not fooling anyone into thinking that you have anything insightful to say.

And the Chinese were all converted to Christianity by the English? Hong Kong is a small island off the coast, genius. And how many Jews are there dispersed across the planet? Oh yeah, quote some statistics, wave your hand, and your idiotic point still stands. You really must be fun at those frat parties, Nard.

And just for future reference, the dead giveaway to posting imbecility is to try and set the rules for posting.

You have a great habit of pontificating "facts", getting called out on said "facts" and then whining pointlessly without admitting you were wrong to begin with. In case you didn't realize it, it's tiresome.

jrodmc
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2/14/2014  11:02 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

I stated the conclusions that I came to that is all. I didn't write this to claim that I was right and everyone else was wrong, just sharing my thoughts.

With that said the earliest known civilization documented in mans history is Mesopotamia which was created after the flood of Noah. If I am wrong I would like to be educated.

You can believe what you want to believe but the Bible is no real historical account. If it was, the book would be continually expanding and updating itself; while focusing on more than the accounts of a random nomadic tribe.

You know what's interesting about Christianity though? Every other present day religion maintains it's highest concentration of followers in the areas/regions they originated: the Buddhist/Daoist still dominants East Asia, the Muslim still dominants the Middle East, the Hindu in India. Christianity is the only religion whose message was so compelling that hardly anyone in the region where it began, still follows it. The highest concentration of Christians today, exist in conquered lands. The conquerors came with their Bibles and took the land and all the resources therein of the indigenous peoples'. Today, all that the progeny of these indigenous people have are their Bibles, while the descendants of the conquerors have no need for theirs'. I think that's all I needed to know about Christianity, when I stopped being a Catholic. Perhaps that's something you should consider as "a strong Black man".

Yea but we took their land and raped their women and children in the name of The Lord so it's ok!

Through science weapons of mass destruction have been created killing millions of people. Through technology weapons have been created killing millions of people. Through sex people have been sold for profit & raped. Through Government & Politics people have suppressed others for there own personal gain.

Maybe mankind is just flawed, and have continually tainted there(Religion, Science, Technology, Sex, Government) purpose for personal gain. Or should we do away with Religion, Science, Technology, Sex, & Government? Would the world then be a better place?

So at best, religion is flawed because like government, it was created and is safeguarded by man. So why should we be pretending that it is the "final authority" for anyone or anything? Why do you wield it as some kind of infallible tool. "It says God exists.....so God must exist". "It says homosexuality is a sin.... so it MUST be sin".

I'm really not trying to continue this argument because clearly you have your views set in stone and I have mine. Neither of us are going to bend. So all that's going to happen is us arguing for days only to realize what we already know. Which is that we don't know everything.

But you are missing the point and have been since your first reply to me. Religion isn't flawed because its only a tool, same as science, government, technology etc etc.. All these tools can be manipulated by man for good or evil. Same as money, money can't be flawed because its only a tool. Its man kind that is flawed. If mankind was perfect then all these would automatically become perfect. I can use water to drown and kill a man or I could use water to replenish a man who's thirsty.

I also didn't say religion was the final authority for anyone or anything. If you actually read the original post which you replied to me its actually the opposite view. Religion isn't the final authority, Gods law of Love is the final authority for anyone or anything. If you use Gods law of love as dominion over any tool then you would only use these tools for good. If everyone followed Gods law of Love then there would be no wars saving billions upon billions of dollars to give back to the people. Farmers wouldn't need to destroy food in order to keep prices at a specific rate while people starve to death throughout the world. Taxes would be 100% used for its intended purpose without man dipping his hand in the cookie jar for there own personal gain. Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

I understand why you feel the way you feel. Religion has been so corrupted by man that its easy to see why people denounce it.Again I don't have the answers to why a man is gay or not gay. If a man is gay or not we are all flawed sinners regardless. Under the New testament of the bible it is believed that heaven will come down on earth and we will be shown the proper way to live under Jesus rule for 1,000 years. Everyone will get a chance to live under this rule no matter what your beliefs were on earth as your heart is what will be judged not our beliefs. All the tools at our exposure will be used in there correct manner. Satan will be locked away for these 1,000 yrs freeing us from negative influence. This is the fear many believers have toward getting accustomed to a certain life style on earth as under Jesus rule you may not live the life style you grew accustomed to on earth. After the 1,000 yrs Satan will be released and there will be a final battle of Armageddon in which people that preferred the life style they had on earth will join Satan to fight for there right to live the life style they want and be wiped out from existence. And when I say life style I am not specifically talking about homosexuals but everything from being super wealthy to swingers etc.

In closing, I am not trying to tell you what to believe or claim I am right and you are wrong. The only point I care to make throughout any of this is that God's law is Love. No matter that our beliefs are different, i'm sure that at the end of the day we both desire peace and love for everyone.

All tools are flawed. An X-Ray gives us the opportunity to inexpensively examine internal injuries but can also cast shadows that lead to false-positives. Injuries also don't happen 2-dimensionally so there is that obvious limitation as well.

Whatever tool you can think of, there are inherent flaws and in that sense, religion is no different. You say that men corrupt religion but man also wrote/created religion e.g. Matthew, Luke, John, etc. Why then is it so unreasonable to presume then that religion is inherently corrupt? And if it is inherently corrupt, to what extent is it inherently corrupt? When the bulk of it consists of these fantastic stories that defy my reality and that of any peer-reviewed historical account, how can I not presume that all of it is corrupt?

That being said, I didn't mean to attack you specifically. As much as it isn't my cup of tea, I recognize that religion could serve a positive end for some; it seems to be the case for you. All too often though, religion is used as "home base" to spew bigotry and eccentric views without having to answer for them. That has consistently been the case for jrodmc and others. As I said before, I meant no ill will towards you but at the same time, those guys are very much in your camp. Since you were the first to officially begin to introduce biblical quotes, you became a target for response. That was all.

As opposed to the home base of "the catalyst" for up and coming genius rationalists like Nard.

It would be good to have something trancendent to base your worldview on. Your morality is based on what? Your reason, your experience and your view of what "reason" will bring you. Check.

Nalod
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2/14/2014  11:05 AM
The bible has an agenda.

It contains Kook Aid. If you like it, need it an owners manual to explain things by all means.

Need a bible to tell you whats right or wrong?

Man needs religion because he fears many things, most of all death. Does religion fear homosexuality because it fears population stagnation? Fears wealth transfer? Because man is uncomfortable with it so its agenda driven to increase revenue? Good source for priests?

We prayed to the sun god every day and low and behold the sun came out. Then we learned the planets.

Its gonna be a real pisser when them aliens decide we can handle the truth.

DrAlphaeus
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2/14/2014  11:31 AM
Race is a social construct of observable and perceived relatedness and phenotypes between human ethnic groups/clans/families. Meaning, it's ridiculous to people who haven't grown up in "one drop" society that someone who looks white just wouldn't be considered white… Passing is a US phenomenon based on adapting to the discriminatory laws... Where does one race begin and another end? But because of slave economics and the curse of Ham and whatever we had some pretty detestable laws in this country. We changed them. So to say that legal terms shouldn't ever evolve because the Bible says this or that… you just aren't going to convince me with that. Sexual preference doesn't have to be the exact same as race for there to be a parallel for discrimination, particularly the marriage argument which was brought up by someone upthread probably on the pearl-clutching side as some hysterical (no offense to the ladies, again… definitions) reaction to Sam's "freak show" of an announcement.

As for what is "truth"… big question. Wouldn't presume that answer be one phrase like "whatever the God of Israel said in the Christian canon". I will spend my lifetime looking for my truth and the bigger truths, and revising my opinions about stuff or becoming more steadfast in other positions. You are presupposing a lot of knowledge about my true nature and my possible destinations after death… I can't prove you are wrong. But I'm not going to believe something that doesn't make sense to me… seems as impossible as changing my sexual orientation right now and switching to dudes. It wouldn't feel right, I'd be living a lie because I don't like the idea of never seeing my departed loved ones again or fear eternal damnation.

As for proof evidence that sexual orientation has a natural component… if I were to give you some research on that, would you even believe it? Would you just see it as evidence of Darwin-worshippers and their sinister social agenda? Who isn't discriminating here? And to be a user of the Roman alphabet and not think the happenstance of my birth time & place wouldn't predispose me to the arguments of the state religion of Rome versus all worldwide God claims. You can accuse me of a lot, but I think I'm decent at discrimination. It is not a dirty word for a filthy lib.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  12:01 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

Jesus, jrod, if that's your Christian spirit...

Please realize, DrA, I typed that with a beautific smile on my face, while pondering the biblical truths contained in Nard's teat-copping story...

And Jesus loves you, DrA. I, of course, being made of dirt, have no idea why He would...

DrAlphaeus
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2/14/2014  1:33 PM
jrodmc wrote:Please realize, DrA, I typed that with a beautific smile on my face, while pondering the biblical truths contained in Nard's teat-copping story...

And Jesus loves you, DrA. I, of course, being made of dirt, have no idea why He would...

Haha... I appreciate it but tell him I don't swing that way.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  1:43 PM
The bible is filled with Kook Aid for those too lazy to actually read and comprehend it's message. A very blase way of dismissing something difficult, which even the best of Christians will note to you is not an easy road. I get it, trust me. I used to hate reading before I realized my plan A of the NBA wasn't going to work. Vertically challenged.

If you don't need someone or something to tell you what's right and wrong, where do you get that information? Internet? TMZ? HBO? The friggin UK? Mary Poppins? Django Unchained? Where did MLK, Jr get it from? Or do you just reach deep inside and just "know"? Some ethereal connection between your synapses that clicked when your ancient ancestors decided to begin walking upright and become bipedal. Great story. Darwinian social ethics. Nature red in tooth and claw.

[Look, I'm just trying to emulate that cool Nalodian free-association method posting.]

And natural components aside, is that all we're about as humans? Whatever's in the code we dance to? Is that really it? That's your argument? Again, discrimination is the key to all evil and the great balancer of all causes. Does it suhuck, yes; and actually that's another bible verse I could throw your way, but would you bother to believe it? [Paul, on the equality of all believers, no matter what race, gender, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, etc etc]

And is truth about what makes sense to you as an individual at a specific moment in time, or is it something that applies to all people for all time? Or is everything always evolving? Is progress really progressive?

Be careful bro, Nietzsche went mad trying to live that one out. "...constantly moving away from all suns, upwards, downwards, sideways..., lighting lamps in the daytime"

jrodmc
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2/14/2014  1:45 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Please realize, DrA, I typed that with a beautific smile on my face, while pondering the biblical truths contained in Nard's teat-copping story...

And Jesus loves you, DrA. I, of course, being made of dirt, have no idea why He would...

Haha... I appreciate it but tell him I don't swing that way.

Ahhh, so the actual dirty word for filthy libs is "love", not discrimination. Good to know.

newyorknewyork
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2/14/2014  1:52 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

Jesus, jrod, if that's your Christian spirit…

If I don't think it makes sense to me and I find detestable a god that would command genocide, yes… why should I believe it? Go ahead and believe it if it makes sense to you. You are a sinner from day one because of a fast-talking snake talking to mankind's progenitors. Because we have Adam's diary. Or Eve's. Or their kids? Or it was told to Moses? Who the Egyptians never seemed to write about. Nor do they record Joseph. And killing the Egyptian first-born was a great way to send a message to a pharaoh whose heart God made hard. Quite the puppet master. Yet he's awfully absent these days because he did his stand-up routine and dropped the mic at the ascension. Count the corpses in your Old Testament and get back to me. But it's all good because God became a corpse in Part Two. Then a resurrected body… or maybe a spirit body? I mean he appeared to Paul too. No way revelations and demons back then could be mental illness interpreted transcendently.

Almost like you just can't make this stuff up right. :p

When you come to understand the bible you come to understand that genocide was necessary at times as Satan's whole purpose is to prove God is a liar and that mankind should be wiped from existence. And every step God has taken proves he isn't a liar and to preserve mankind from being wiped from existence. Mankind is the only thing God created that he allowed to not be directly under his rule.

Of course maybe there was a man in a hut 4,000 yrs ago making this whole best selling novel up with his own imagination with inspiration coming from the bugs on the ground.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
newyorknewyork
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2/14/2014  1:55 PM
Nalod wrote:The bible has an agenda.

It contains Kook Aid. If you like it, need it an owners manual to explain things by all means.

Need a bible to tell you whats right or wrong?

Man needs religion because he fears many things, most of all death. Does religion fear homosexuality because it fears population stagnation? Fears wealth transfer? Because man is uncomfortable with it so its agenda driven to increase revenue? Good source for priests?

We prayed to the sun god every day and low and behold the sun came out. Then we learned the planets.

Its gonna be a real pisser when them aliens decide we can handle the truth.

Bible's agenda is for mankind to know its history and maintain a relationship with its creator.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
jrodmc
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2/14/2014  2:01 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

I'm not going to go into deep discussion.

The bible is based off hundreds of books, of men documenting there experiences. Using your own critic every single piece of history ever written that wasn't visibly seen cannot be deemed as facts due to the same telephone principal. The multitude of documentation by different authors backing up similar events is what makes it authentic. The bible is the most read, research, and studied book in mans history yet not one word in it has ever been *proven* wrong. How can that be for a fictional book.

And it has more manuscript evidence than any ancient book we have knowledge of. And that manuscript evidence corroborates the witness of scripture to something near 99% accuracy across 4000 years or so of available history. So much for the Holy Spirit's telephone. But nevermind all that. There's some moral directives in there that some people don't agree with, and kangaroos lived in Australia, so the whole thing is full of ****. If it's uncomfortable, or I don't like it, why the eff should I believe it? It's 2014, for the love of ...ummm... the "catalyst"! Or the invisible earth-seeding spacemen, err woman, err spaceperson!

The whole book is aimed and directed at one story: the redemption of man. And you've got pages and pages in here that show, despite our fantastic scientific advances based on walking on the backs of giants, we're worse off now then we've ever been. Count the corpses.

"The depravity of man is at one time the most empirically verifiable fact, while it's the most intellectually resisted" - Malcolm Muggeridge

And while you will no doubt continue to be regaled with brilliant responses about what "reasonable, modern man" can be expected to believe, check out the Advanced Physics department at Oxford. Seems alot of those cats don't seem to have a problem believing "fiction". And I doubt any of the geniuses in this thread could qualify to park cars at that level.

Jesus, jrod, if that's your Christian spirit…

If I don't think it makes sense to me and I find detestable a god that would command genocide, yes… why should I believe it? Go ahead and believe it if it makes sense to you. You are a sinner from day one because of a fast-talking snake talking to mankind's progenitors. Because we have Adam's diary. Or Eve's. Or their kids? Or it was told to Moses? Who the Egyptians never seemed to write about. Nor do they record Joseph. And killing the Egyptian first-born was a great way to send a message to a pharaoh whose heart God made hard. Quite the puppet master. Yet he's awfully absent these days because he did his stand-up routine and dropped the mic at the ascension. Count the corpses in your Old Testament and get back to me. But it's all good because God became a corpse in Part Two. Then a resurrected body… or maybe a spirit body? I mean he appeared to Paul too. No way revelations and demons back then could be mental illness interpreted transcendently.

Almost like you just can't make this stuff up right. :p

When you come to understand the bible you come to understand that genocide was necessary at times as Satan's whole purpose is to prove God is a liar and that mankind should be wiped from existence. And every step God has taken proves he isn't a liar and to preserve mankind from being wiped from existence. Mankind is the only thing God created that he allowed to not be directly under his rule.

Of course maybe there was a man in a hut 4,000 yrs ago making this whole best selling novel up with his own imagination with inspiration coming from the bugs on the ground.

And if the bugs actually mutated into his ancestors, given enough time and chance...the sequel would be Origin of Species! Which, fittingly enough to this runaway thread, was subtitled "Preservation of the Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life".

Maybe Charles Darwin is Jesus, Random Mutation is the Holy Spirit, and Evolution is God A'mighty!

O.T Michael Sams : Im a college graduate, African American and Im A GAY FOOTBALL PLAYER

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