holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

Knick's win
Melo gets majority of the credit for it
Including "HOCKEY ASSIST", when the rest of the league calls it BALL MOVEMENT and hitting the open man but Melo MUST get credit for a number that has no association with him

Melo loses but puts up points he doesn't deserve the blame
Melo's team mates don't produce, deflect gets pushed right to his team mates

How could you ever lose in your arguments?

How many times has Melo shot 30 to 40 shots PLUS, how many were poor shots?
How many times is the ball in Melo's hands?
Melo shoots ALL THE FT's attempts for technical fouls to boost up his stats..

Lets me ask you this, who did Lin with on his streak here?
What his talent lower or higher than the players Melo have now?

No, I don't think Lin could lead us to the the playoffs either but he deserves the credit when he in fact LEAD THE TEAM when Melo was unable to do so with the same players
The team was able to play off his ability to penetrate consistently, we played much better DEFENSE, we got easy transition points, we played TEAM BALL, and he was flirting with triple double numbers when the he was playing as the #1

Instead, Holfresh would rather blast's Lin's 24m for 3 years but credit Melo for his numbers and justify paying him 3x the amount PER YEAR that Lin gets on a MAX YEAR DEAL
Tyson Chandler looked like quite an offensive player with Lin and was highly motivated to play
Novak looked like a steal
Jeffries looked like a solid 2 way player

Fields looked like a solid NBA player with Lin and with Gallo/Wilson Chandler but trash with Melo, like Novak did for the most part
Why is that? Is it coincidence? I don't care what they are NOT doing or doing in Toronto, I am talking about why they did well in NYK with Lin vs without and with Melo and Woodson
If they sucked so much should Lin and pre Melo Knick's were able to play in a DIFFERENT system?

Our style of play is CATERED to Melo, that is what he wanted, that is what he complained about when Lin was here
Now that we have been unproductive in the post season last year (we were blown out every game last year in the playoffs and watch us play this year)
Paul George was defending him 1v1, just like he defended Lebron 1v1
Hibbert was protecting the rim but he did the same vs The Heat....

You say we lack talent, I agree

BUT

I said we greatly overpayed for the trade for a WANT, not a NEED, while you said we just loss "ROLE PLAYERS"
"Getting role players is easy after you get an ALL STAR"
We havent....

Well, we never get the talent needed and ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS and POSTS contradict each other

I am not saying it is Melo's fault, I am saying he isn't the part of the solution
However, IF he wants to stay in NYK to contend, he will have to make sacrifices both on and off the court

It doesn't matter if he drops 100 pts, what we do in the playoffs vs top tier teams, when the game changes, in a 7 game series....

Kobe was unable to lead the team by himself, he had SHAQ in his prime and then he needed Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and a system that complimented the team, not just him
But we unable to add that type of talent with the way the CBA is constructed now, not if he opts out this summer

My point is you don't build around 1 player, you build around a core
We are unable to have a core till 2015 and still then, we need to carefully use our payroll till then
IF MELO OPTS out this summer for an extension we would be unable to have a core, and you will continue you deflect blame

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

Knick's win
Melo gets majority of the credit for it
Including "HOCKEY ASSIST", when the rest of the league calls it BALL MOVEMENT and hitting the open man but Melo MUST get credit for a number that has no association with him

Melo loses but puts up points he doesn't deserve the blame
Melo's team mates don't produce, deflect gets pushed right to his team mates

How could you ever lose in your arguments?

How many times has Melo shot 30 to 40 shots PLUS, how many were poor shots?
How many times is the ball in Melo's hands?
Melo shoots ALL THE FT's attempts for technical fouls to boost up his stats..

Lets me ask you this, who did Lin with on his streak here?
What his talent lower or higher than the players Melo have now?

No, I don't think Lin could lead us to the the playoffs either but he deserves the credit when he in fact LEAD THE TEAM when Melo was unable to do so with the same players
The team was able to play off his ability to penetrate consistently, we played much better DEFENSE, we got easy transition points, we played TEAM BALL, and he was flirting with triple double numbers when the he was playing as the #1

Instead, Holfresh would rather blast's Lin's 24m for 3 years but credit Melo for his numbers and justify paying him 3x the amount PER YEAR that Lin gets on a MAX YEAR DEAL
Tyson Chandler looked like quite an offensive player with Lin and was highly motivated to play
Novak looked like a steal
Jeffries looked like a solid 2 way player

Fields looked like a solid NBA player with Lin and with Gallo/Wilson Chandler but trash with Melo, like Novak did for the most part
Why is that? Is it coincidence? I don't care what they are NOT doing or doing in Toronto, I am talking about why they did well in NYK with Lin vs without and with Melo and Woodson
If they sucked so much should Lin and pre Melo Knick's were able to play in a DIFFERENT system?

Our style of play is CATERED to Melo, that is what he wanted, that is what he complained about when Lin was here
Now that we have been unproductive in the post season last year (we were blown out every game last year in the playoffs and watch us play this year)
Paul George was defending him 1v1, just like he defended Lebron 1v1
Hibbert was protecting the rim but he did the same vs The Heat....

You say we lack talent, I agree

BUT

I said we greatly overpayed for the trade for a WANT, not a NEED, while you said we just loss "ROLE PLAYERS"
"Getting role players is easy after you get an ALL STAR"
We havent....

Well, we never get the talent needed and ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS and POSTS contradict each other

I am not saying it is Melo's fault, I am saying he isn't the part of the solution
However, IF he wants to stay in NYK to contend, he will have to make sacrifices both on and off the court

It doesn't matter if he drops 100 pts, what we do in the playoffs vs top tier teams, when the game changes, in a 7 game series....

Kobe was unable to lead the team by himself, he had SHAQ in his prime and then he needed Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and a system that complimented the team, not just him
But we unable to add that type of talent with the way the CBA is constructed now, not if he opts out this summer

My point is you don't build around 1 player, you build around a core
We are unable to have a core till 2015 and still then, we need to carefully use our payroll till then
IF MELO OPTS out this summer for an extension we would be unable to have a core, and you will continue you deflect blame

Needs to do a better job defensively though. He and Felton love to switch. LAZY

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

Knick's win
Melo gets majority of the credit for it
Including "HOCKEY ASSIST", when the rest of the league calls it BALL MOVEMENT and hitting the open man but Melo MUST get credit for a number that has no association with him

Melo loses but puts up points he doesn't deserve the blame
Melo's team mates don't produce, deflect gets pushed right to his team mates

How could you ever lose in your arguments?

How many times has Melo shot 30 to 40 shots PLUS, how many were poor shots?
How many times is the ball in Melo's hands?
Melo shoots ALL THE FT's attempts for technical fouls to boost up his stats..

Lets me ask you this, who did Lin with on his streak here?
What his talent lower or higher than the players Melo have now?

No, I don't think Lin could lead us to the the playoffs either but he deserves the credit when he in fact LEAD THE TEAM when Melo was unable to do so with the same players
The team was able to play off his ability to penetrate consistently, we played much better DEFENSE, we got easy transition points, we played TEAM BALL, and he was flirting with triple double numbers when the he was playing as the #1

Instead, Holfresh would rather blast's Lin's 24m for 3 years but credit Melo for his numbers and justify paying him 3x the amount PER YEAR that Lin gets on a MAX YEAR DEAL
Tyson Chandler looked like quite an offensive player with Lin and was highly motivated to play
Novak looked like a steal
Jeffries looked like a solid 2 way player

Fields looked like a solid NBA player with Lin and with Gallo/Wilson Chandler but trash with Melo, like Novak did for the most part
Why is that? Is it coincidence? I don't care what they are NOT doing or doing in Toronto, I am talking about why they did well in NYK with Lin vs without and with Melo and Woodson
If they sucked so much should Lin and pre Melo Knick's were able to play in a DIFFERENT system?

Our style of play is CATERED to Melo, that is what he wanted, that is what he complained about when Lin was here
Now that we have been unproductive in the post season last year (we were blown out every game last year in the playoffs and watch us play this year)
Paul George was defending him 1v1, just like he defended Lebron 1v1
Hibbert was protecting the rim but he did the same vs The Heat....

You say we lack talent, I agree

BUT

I said we greatly overpayed for the trade for a WANT, not a NEED, while you said we just loss "ROLE PLAYERS"
"Getting role players is easy after you get an ALL STAR"
We havent....

Well, we never get the talent needed and ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS and POSTS contradict each other

I am not saying it is Melo's fault, I am saying he isn't the part of the solution
However, IF he wants to stay in NYK to contend, he will have to make sacrifices both on and off the court

It doesn't matter if he drops 100 pts, what we do in the playoffs vs top tier teams, when the game changes, in a 7 game series....

Kobe was unable to lead the team by himself, he had SHAQ in his prime and then he needed Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and a system that complimented the team, not just him
But we unable to add that type of talent with the way the CBA is constructed now, not if he opts out this summer

My point is you don't build around 1 player, you build around a core
We are unable to have a core till 2015 and still then, we need to carefully use our payroll till then
IF MELO OPTS out this summer for an extension we would be unable to have a core, and you will continue you deflect blame

Novak has had his two best years in his nine year career playing with Melo in NY. Who is holding Fields back the past two years?

Novak's best stretch was playing with Lin, that was part of one of those years that you are including him with Melo
We used picks off the ball, had great ball and player movement, and used the PnR very well

However, in Woodson's system, he is used just to SPREAD the floor for Melo (all the defense has to do is whoever defends Novak DON'T LEAVE him)
Novak was used completely different while Lin was here, the entire team and Novak benefitted from it

Field's with the right players and system played the best ball in his entire career

1- with Dantoni and the players prior to the deal with Melo
2- With Lin, he was a glue on both the OFF and DEF, playing a TEAM concept off Lin's ability to penetrate while having good spacing/player movement/and hitting the wide open man

both happened without Melo

Chandler also looked great on both ends with Lin
He did look great on DEFENSE last season early with Melo but Lin was able to use him as a threat despite his lack of skills, keeping him motivated through the stretch

Listen, I am not blaming Melo rather pointing out that the TEAM is unable to play through him consistently, with our lack of talent
He doesn't make players around him better, it may happen in stretches, but not in consistent manner
This isn't his fault, it is what it is, but Lin deserves credit for what he did and Melo is unable to do

Melo needs many skilled versatile 2way players to compliment that style of play, like he had in TEAM USA
We are unable to acquire that type of skilled 2way players in NYK if we pay him anything close to max deal

ONLY WAY is if he doesn't opt out this summer, take his 25m contract till 2015, then recruit the talented needed to build a core with a player option in 2016
And then Dolan can overpay him if he wishes in 2016

Or we can simply just trade him to fill the wholes we need with picks to develop, then resign him in 2015

There is no other way we can ever build a contender with Melo that is all I am saying

RonRon wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

Knick's win
Melo gets majority of the credit for it
Including "HOCKEY ASSIST", when the rest of the league calls it BALL MOVEMENT and hitting the open man but Melo MUST get credit for a number that has no association with him

Melo loses but puts up points he doesn't deserve the blame
Melo's team mates don't produce, deflect gets pushed right to his team mates

How could you ever lose in your arguments?

How many times has Melo shot 30 to 40 shots PLUS, how many were poor shots?
How many times is the ball in Melo's hands?
Melo shoots ALL THE FT's attempts for technical fouls to boost up his stats..

Lets me ask you this, who did Lin with on his streak here?
What his talent lower or higher than the players Melo have now?

No, I don't think Lin could lead us to the the playoffs either but he deserves the credit when he in fact LEAD THE TEAM when Melo was unable to do so with the same players
The team was able to play off his ability to penetrate consistently, we played much better DEFENSE, we got easy transition points, we played TEAM BALL, and he was flirting with triple double numbers when the he was playing as the #1

Instead, Holfresh would rather blast's Lin's 24m for 3 years but credit Melo for his numbers and justify paying him 3x the amount PER YEAR that Lin gets on a MAX YEAR DEAL
Tyson Chandler looked like quite an offensive player with Lin and was highly motivated to play
Novak looked like a steal
Jeffries looked like a solid 2 way player

Fields looked like a solid NBA player with Lin and with Gallo/Wilson Chandler but trash with Melo, like Novak did for the most part
Why is that? Is it coincidence? I don't care what they are NOT doing or doing in Toronto, I am talking about why they did well in NYK with Lin vs without and with Melo and Woodson
If they sucked so much should Lin and pre Melo Knick's were able to play in a DIFFERENT system?

Our style of play is CATERED to Melo, that is what he wanted, that is what he complained about when Lin was here
Now that we have been unproductive in the post season last year (we were blown out every game last year in the playoffs and watch us play this year)
Paul George was defending him 1v1, just like he defended Lebron 1v1
Hibbert was protecting the rim but he did the same vs The Heat....

You say we lack talent, I agree

BUT

I said we greatly overpayed for the trade for a WANT, not a NEED, while you said we just loss "ROLE PLAYERS"
"Getting role players is easy after you get an ALL STAR"
We havent....

Well, we never get the talent needed and ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS and POSTS contradict each other

I am not saying it is Melo's fault, I am saying he isn't the part of the solution
However, IF he wants to stay in NYK to contend, he will have to make sacrifices both on and off the court

It doesn't matter if he drops 100 pts, what we do in the playoffs vs top tier teams, when the game changes, in a 7 game series....

Kobe was unable to lead the team by himself, he had SHAQ in his prime and then he needed Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and a system that complimented the team, not just him
But we unable to add that type of talent with the way the CBA is constructed now, not if he opts out this summer

My point is you don't build around 1 player, you build around a core
We are unable to have a core till 2015 and still then, we need to carefully use our payroll till then
IF MELO OPTS out this summer for an extension we would be unable to have a core, and you will continue you deflect blame

Novak has had his two best years in his nine year career playing with Melo in NY. Who is holding Fields back the past two years?

Novak's best stretch was playing with Lin, that was part of one of those years that you are including him with Melo
We used picks off the ball, had great ball and player movement, and used the PnR very well

However, in Woodson's system, he is used just to SPREAD the floor for Melo (all the defense has to do is whoever defends Novak DON'T LEAVE him)
Novak was used completely different while Lin was here, the entire team and Novak benefitted from it

Field's with the right players and system played the best ball in his entire career

1- with Dantoni and the players prior to the deal with Melo
2- With Lin, he was a glue on both the OFF and DEF, playing a TEAM concept off Lin's ability to penetrate while having good spacing/player movement/and hitting the wide open man

both happened without Melo

Chandler also looked great on both ends with Lin
He did look great on DEFENSE last season early with Melo but Lin was able to use him as a threat despite his lack of skills, keeping him motivated through the stretch

Listen, I am not blaming Melo rather pointing out that the TEAM is unable to play through him consistently, with our lack of talent
He doesn't make players around him better, it may happen in stretches, but not in consistent manner
This isn't his fault, it is what it is, but Lin deserves credit for what he did and Melo is unable to do

Melo needs many skilled versatile 2way players to compliment that style of play, like he had in TEAM USA
We are unable to acquire that type of skilled 2way players in NYK if we pay him anything close to max deal

ONLY WAY is if he doesn't opt out this summer, take his 25m contract till 2015, then recruit the talented needed to build a core with a player option in 2016
And then Dolan can overpay him if he wishes in 2016

Or we can simply just trade him to fill the wholes we need with picks to develop, then resign him in 2015

There is no other way we can ever build a contender with Melo that is all I am saying

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

I was coming to the rescue of logic. You can make a decent argument in this case without pretending that TKF ignored your question.

Well nice try but he still hasn't answered to it but came back with a question of his own to which I had already answered and did again ... At this point it is just annoying (I asked the question in several posts (3-4 at least) and he just ignores it) ... Before talking about logic you should read the posts first ...

Is "62 points, 13 rebounds, efficient scoring in a win equaling to a good game" ? Is the question not clear enough ?

This has nothing to do with logic

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

I was coming to the rescue of logic. You can make a decent argument in this case without pretending that TKF ignored your question.

Well nice try but he still hasn't answered to it but came back with a question of his own to which I had already answered and did again ... At this point it is just annoying (I asked the question in several posts (3-4 at least) and he just ignores it) ... Before talking about logic you should read the posts first ...

Is "62 points, 13 rebounds, efficient scoring in a win equaling to a good game" ? Is the question not clear enough ?

This has nothing to do with logic

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said that you could make a decent argument against his claims

ok we agree then, sorry i didn't get your meaning the first time

fishmike wrote:I see Melo sucked again last night...

luckily the knicks won despite melo awful game [end of sarcasm]

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

well considering that he has the ball a lot and takes over 20 shots per game.. isn't that a contributing factor to why we are where we are? not the main factor, but a contributing factor... how can you say it has NOTHING to do with him? Everyone is to be held accountable at some level..

That's not what I said. Melo is on the team and should be held accountable for what's going on to some extent. That's a fair statement and I agree with it, but there are bigger issues at work here that have nothing to do with Melo, like Felton and JR's regression, the loss of Lin and Amar'e and Chandler giving the team basically nothing for over half the cap. Those are all bigger issues than over-analyzing Melo's game.

y2zipper wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

Huh? Yes he does...

yea.. more evidence that this board is littered with donkees who dont even watch the games but are free to spout garbage as if they know what they are talking out. Melo is constantly doubled. If you actually counted the # of times he passes out of it you would be shocked.

I watch plenty of games, thank you very much. He isn't doubled as much as you think and when he is, he doesn't pass out of it as much as you think he does. It's especially true when you watch him play Indiana and other elite defenses that don't double the post.

He takes too many mid-range shots and pull-up jumpers, and his game is not conducive to creating open shots for teammates the same way that LeBron's and Durant's are. Otherwise, he'd average more assists. Assist Opportunities, the number of passes thrown and secondary assists are all actually tracked, and league-wide you get an assist about half the time you create an opportunity for an assist. Melo throws about the same number of passes as Kevin Durant and LeBron James do, but they average about twice as many assist opportunities. It means that the passes that Melo throws aren't as good as the passes that LeBron and Durant throw. People like the perpetuate the myth that there's some disparity in how well Melo's supporting cast shoots, but the numbers simply don't show any significant difference anywhere where a player sets up a ton of assist opportunities but doesn't get a big assist number to go with it. I agree that the Knicks don't have much else in the way of scoring options, but that doesn't change the fact that Melo doesn't pass enough. He's inferior in the passing categories to the other guys mentioned and it's why elite point guards that can take the ball out of his hands are always discussed as necessary when putting a team with Melo on it together.

It doesn't mean I don't want him or that he can't be a positive piece, but the team isn't going to win a lot when Melo has the ball in his hands all the time because he isn't the type of player to distribute.

the ratio of his usage rate (USG) and the assist rate (AST) supports this argument.

george and lebron is close to 1:1 while melo's is consistently 2:1 or greater

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

dk7th wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

Huh? Yes he does...

yea.. more evidence that this board is littered with donkees who dont even watch the games but are free to spout garbage as if they know what they are talking out. Melo is constantly doubled. If you actually counted the # of times he passes out of it you would be shocked.

I watch plenty of games, thank you very much. He isn't doubled as much as you think and when he is, he doesn't pass out of it as much as you think he does. It's especially true when you watch him play Indiana and other elite defenses that don't double the post.

He takes too many mid-range shots and pull-up jumpers, and his game is not conducive to creating open shots for teammates the same way that LeBron's and Durant's are. Otherwise, he'd average more assists. Assist Opportunities, the number of passes thrown and secondary assists are all actually tracked, and league-wide you get an assist about half the time you create an opportunity for an assist. Melo throws about the same number of passes as Kevin Durant and LeBron James do, but they average about twice as many assist opportunities. It means that the passes that Melo throws aren't as good as the passes that LeBron and Durant throw. People like the perpetuate the myth that there's some disparity in how well Melo's supporting cast shoots, but the numbers simply don't show any significant difference anywhere where a player sets up a ton of assist opportunities but doesn't get a big assist number to go with it. I agree that the Knicks don't have much else in the way of scoring options, but that doesn't change the fact that Melo doesn't pass enough. He's inferior in the passing categories to the other guys mentioned and it's why elite point guards that can take the ball out of his hands are always discussed as necessary when putting a team with Melo on it together.

It doesn't mean I don't want him or that he can't be a positive piece, but the team isn't going to win a lot when Melo has the ball in his hands all the time because he isn't the type of player to distribute.

the ratio of his usage rate (USG) and the assist rate (AST) supports this argument.

george and lebron is close to 1:1 while melo's is consistently 2:1 or greater

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

Shooting percentage of Melo's teammates versus Bron and KD teammates doesn't support this argument...All things are not equal...