yellowboy90 wrote:Is Bargs defensive rebounding leading to the other teams points? How does that work?

it works the same exact way that going 12-28 does-- it means you have made 12 shots but missed 16 shots. which of the two-- makes or misses-- factors into winning more games?

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The idea that some players don't need to rebound is beyond stupid (to use your language). If you're giving up 4 more rebounds than the average PF, that's gonna give the opponent 4 to 5 more PPG. Then when you take into account him being below average in steals and blocks, we're already at around -6. That would be a tough amount of ground to make up for on offense unless you're one of the top 5 or so players in the game.

While of course you would want rebounding. Rebounding basically leads to possessions which is the goal. Heat were the worst rebounding team in the NBA last yr, Spurs were the 20th. The average PF doesn't average 10rebs a game and Tyson is one of 8-9 centers in the NBA to average 10rebs or more. Then Bargs moves Carmelo back to SF and if Melo puts up his average 6 he would be a top 6 rebounding SF. Knicks were also 12th in defensive rebounding last season but were last in offensive rebounding. It really comes down to limiting turn overs and causing turnovers which seems more impactful which the Knicks did very well last season.

And Bargnani doesn't average 6 rpg. He averaged 3.7 rpg in just under 30 minutes a game last year. Career-wise, he's average 4.8.

I don't expect him to average 3.7 next season. He will probably average 5-6. I like the fit skill wise it has potential sine he is an inside outside threat. 2 inside/outside threats such as Carmelo and Bargs is intriguing. You can run the PNR for Tyson or put the ball in the post for Melo or Bargs. With Melo posting SFs not PFs.

Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Kidd, Felton was the starting lineup for the Knicks in the beginning of the season. Tyson, Bargs, Melo, Shump, Felton is actually a better rebounding lineup then that. Probably a better lineup overall as well.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:what is the avg def rebounds for PFs?

11.3 total rebounds per 48 min for PFs and 12.7 for Cs. According to 82games he played about 50/50 PF/C last year. So let's just say 12.0.

I meant specifically defensive rebounds. That may be harder to look up

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The idea that some players don't need to rebound is beyond stupid (to use your language). If you're giving up 4 more rebounds than the average PF, that's gonna give the opponent 4 to 5 more PPG. Then when you take into account him being below average in steals and blocks, we're already at around -6. That would be a tough amount of ground to make up for on offense unless you're one of the top 5 or so players in the game.

While of course you would want rebounding. Rebounding basically leads to possessions which is the goal. Heat were the worst rebounding team in the NBA last yr, Spurs were the 20th. The average PF doesn't average 10rebs a game and Tyson is one of 8-9 centers in the NBA to average 10rebs or more. Then Bargs moves Carmelo back to SF and if Melo puts up his average 6 he would be a top 6 rebounding SF. Knicks were also 12th in defensive rebounding last season but were last in offensive rebounding. It really comes down to limiting turn overs and causing turnovers which seems more impactful which the Knicks did very well last season.

And Bargnani doesn't average 6 rpg. He averaged 3.7 rpg in just under 30 minutes a game last year. Career-wise, he's average 4.8.

I don't expect him to average 3.7 next season. He will probably average 5-6. I like the fit skill wise it has potential sine he is an inside outside threat. 2 inside/outside threats such as Carmelo and Bargs is intriguing. You can run the PNR for Tyson or put the ball in the post for Melo or Bargs. With Melo posting SFs not PFs.

Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Kidd, Felton was the starting lineup for the Knicks in the beginning of the season. Tyson, Bargs, Melo, Shump, Felton is actually a better rebounding lineup then that. Probably a better lineup overall as well.

Well I don't think anyone expected him to average 3.7 last year either, but it happened!

His rebounding numbers were brutal. Prior to tearing the ligament in his elbow he was at 17 and 4. If he ups the rebounds to 6 those aren't bad numbers and he becomes the second or third option on the knicks.

nixluva wrote:AB wasn't brought in to be a power rebounder. He was brought in to stretch the floor and give us another primary option besides Melo. AB is not going to be a 3rd option on offense. He's gonna be a 2nd option. No Knick other than Melo and Amar'e has been able to avg. as many ppg as AB has. He's been a primary scoring option as a starter. People really need to stop with this bashing of AB as if he's some scrub that's never done anything good. He's still got a ton of upside cuz being 7'1" with long arms, great overall skills and agility he can be better than he's been so far in his career. With better coaching and an improved attitude it's entirely possible for AB to be a more productive player. Anyone who thinks AB has maxed out on his potential isn't paying attention. Woody is gonna crack the whip on AB and get him to work harder on both ends. Once he gets to experience success in NY he'll find he loves it and we'll benefit from a happy and inspired AB.

I'm sorry but he will mostly be a third option. Melo, PnR game chandler/Felton, and Bargs. He may have more attempts than TC or Ray but he won't be the real second option

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:ou

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The idea that some players don't need to rebound is beyond stupid (to use your language). If you're giving up 4 more rebounds than the average PF, that's gonna give the opponent 4 to 5 more PPG. Then when you take into account him being below average in steals and blocks, we're already at around -6. That would be a tough amount of ground to make up for on offense unless you're one of the top 5 or so players in the game.

yea he bargnani though,

bargs should be our starting sf this year, what does this do for the rpg

It doesn't help much since Melo would be at PF and Bargs probably can't guard SFs.

so he is a worthless player?

Pretty much. I might have given him the vet min as an FA since there's always the possibility of a player turning things around and he still has potential. But I wouldn't have given up any assets for him.

if they reach ECF this year, is he worthless or can we let him ride?

It would make more sense to judge his worth based on how he plays, not the team's record.

if he is worthless and the team goes deeper in the playoffs, can we still say he is worthless?

Did you not understand my previous statement? Anyway, you're defining him as worthless in the question ("if he is worthless..."), so wouldn't the answer have to be yes? It's kind of like saying "If John is a male and everyone else in the room is a female, is John still a male?"

what i want to know is, because the stats are so bad on him, does bargnani belong in the nba? should he even be playing basketball? will he make this team worse than it is?

Well everyone's going to have their own answer. But to answer your questions, I'd say:
A) He at least belongs on a preseason roster
B) Yes, since he makes a lot of money. Even if you're not in the NBA, you can still make a lot of money.
C) If he plays anything like he has in the past, then he'll make the team much worse.

so if we look at the stats, how does novak compare to bargnani?

Nothing special but much better than Bargnani

how can we win more games than last year if we added a player that's making us worse?

I don't think we will. I think we'll win about 5 to 10 less than last year

what other things go into this result, other than bringing bargs in

is bargs the main reason we will win so few games?

Aging, losing Kidd, adding Bargs, and the other teams improving are all big factors. You keep asking one question in response to what I say. It seems like you're taking a really indirect route to get at whatever point you want to make.

don't tell me again, i started reading on page 10 or 11,

we're trying to get to the truth here, can you handle the truth?

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:AB wasn't brought in to be a power rebounder. He was brought in to stretch the floor and give us another primary option besides Melo. AB is not going to be a 3rd option on offense. He's gonna be a 2nd option. No Knick other than Melo and Amar'e has been able to avg. as many ppg as AB has. He's been a primary scoring option as a starter. People really need to stop with this bashing of AB as if he's some scrub that's never done anything good. He's still got a ton of upside cuz being 7'1" with long arms, great overall skills and agility he can be better than he's been so far in his career. With better coaching and an improved attitude it's entirely possible for AB to be a more productive player. Anyone who thinks AB has maxed out on his potential isn't paying attention. Woody is gonna crack the whip on AB and get him to work harder on both ends. Once he gets to experience success in NY he'll find he loves it and we'll benefit from a happy and inspired AB.

I'm sorry but he will mostly be a third option. Melo, PnR game chandler/Felton, and Bargs. He may have more attempts than TC or Ray but he won't be the real second option

Perhaps but Don't be so sure that AB won't be the #2 option. NO ONE else on the Knicks is actually capable of scoring from everywhere like AB, it would be foolish to have anyone else shoot more than AB aside from Melo. it appears that some of us really don't realize how skilled this guy is. He's the size of a center with great overall skills. What can't AB do offensively on the floor? PnR/PnP, 3pt, Low Post, Mid Post and he can run the floor and finish. He's tough from everywhere. JR was taking so many shots by default. We had so many players that practically refused to shoot!!! There wasn't anyone else. AB has an advantage every time down and isn't limited in any way. IMO you have to make him the #2 option and look to get him close to the basket more often.