fishmike wrote:

jazz74 wrote:i didnt read the earlier posts so this might have been covered. though i live in jersey, my parents are from the south, an area that they own guns like they own toothbrushes. i learned how to shoot them at a young age and i know people who look at the beginning of hunting season as a holiday so banning guns will be difficult to do. however, that doenst mean we cant have restricted laws for them. i more strenous process of getting guns and, most importantly, banning semi automatics. why have these type of guns? protection? pistols can do the job if you are worried. you dont use the gun to hunt so there is no purpose. things have to change, though, but it will be hard to do because unfortunately it has been part of our culture since the bill of rights.

this... and the laws work! The stats dont lie! Less guns, tougher restrictions, logner waiting periods, no semi automatic weapons... these things work. They help. So long as guns can be obtained there will be gun violence, but measures can be taken to limit these types of incidents.

The only thing that kept the mall shooter from killing a 100 people (I think I read he had 300 rounds?) was his freakin gun jammed. You cant do that kind of damage with shotguns or single shot rifles.

We have seen too closesly what happens in a nation that glorifies violence and sells it, when the mentally ill aquire weapons capable of this violence. There is no 100% prevention, but if just one of these were stopped or even limited isnt that worth it? Isnt it worth trying? Stats show this works!

Agree with all this.

However, good luck fighting the powerful/brain dead NRA

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Making guns illegal is a solution but I do not think it is a possibility in US.
It is possible to do and was done in totalitarian countries because to make it work you need a total control of people lives.
It was done in countries which are advanced enough to reject violence. US is surrey not - we embrace it in movies, comic books, video games, sports, entertainment. So we collectively get what we are asking for.
In US this ban will only lead to creation of all-powerful gun mafia same as it did with boos and drags.
Mafia will get the biggest gains from this ban.
Every kid can get drugs from drug dealers any time he want in any place in this country. He just need money and sometimes he will get drugs for free to make him an addict and a "good customer" in the future.Why this will be different with guns?
We need to stop glorify violence even if violence is done by "good guys" and "superheros". Can we?
I am not sure. It is much more difficult that just ban the guns.

ahhh... no, no they cant. Again, more totally fabricated notions to support an opnion.

You want drugs you have to look and ask, and that looking and asking alone may lead to you getting caught. Yes, in high school (80s) weed and beer were mostly available if you knew someone with an older sybling or connection. Anything harder was rare, and if you got desperate for weed and had go buy off the street you were at pretty big risk of getting caught, getting your ass kicked or getting ripped off. So no, any kid that says "lets get high" cant just go out and do it. Sorry.

Mentall illness is a much bigger issue.

Its not the mafia and drug guns that are the problem. Those are mostly used on other mafia and drug gangs/dealers.

I agree that this small provincial places have less drag availability but in NY, NJ, LA... you go to certain place and you will find drug dealer at every corner.
Yes you can get in trouble by asking... but with guns when somebody determined to go on shooting spree... he will take chance to ask.
Guns are banned in Russia but terrorist came to school in Beslan and killed hundreds of people, mostly kids.
There are better solutions but they are costly.
For example with all the endless Jihad and Islamic terror attacks that hit Israel, kids in schools are safe because every school has armed guards at points of entry. People never barge into schools in Israel and start a shooting rampage. They would be shot and killed immediately. You cannot murder children in Israeli schools because the adults treat them like the priceless treasures they are.
We do have guards in NYC schools especially in bad neighborhoods so why not to make it a requirement. It will be a good use of Army and Reserve to serve the society and will create a lot of jobs in security firms.

agree... but your examples are not good because they have little relevence here. The Russian attack came in an area of a hundred years of ethnic hate and violence. The Israeli school example also doesnt fit as they are a military state and under constant attack of that nature.

And I live in NJ, and if you dont know someone you have to go to an area of very high risk if you want to buy drugs off a street. There's a damn good chance that dopey rich kids driving around slummy areas in nice cars asking random dudes where they can get some hooch are gonna get caught and fast. It *seems* easy but its not that easy and its high risk. The deterent works (breaking the law).

Its got to be harder to get these types of weapons. They were all legally aquired. You cant stop this crime, but the laws work and the evidence cant be refuted. There is no solution, but it doesnt mean there cant be progress. (assuming fake crying Obamo doesnt order more attacks on children to push his legislation)

Israel is not a military state. You probably never visited otherwise you will now that this is liberal propoganda nonsense.
Israely people are bearing arms to protect their state and their people from enemies who cannot accept their existence.
Is it the same as we Americans are stand for and were made of?
There is no middle ground here - or we all have rights to protect themselves with guns or nobody has.
Instead we as society want to come up with some "politically correct" solution to please everybody.
Time to stop this bs and make a decision what is more important and essential - freedom or security.

no... never been to Israel. Have some friends who have an and served in the army as that is mandatory. It is a 100% a military state. Just check the population vs the size of the army and military resources. Yes, its for their protection for the reasons you mention. My point is simply they have a threat the US does not.

There's always a middle ground. Concessions can be made by both sides. Its legal to drink and drive right? Its legal to look at porn right? Its legal to own a firearm right? But can I get loaded and drive? Can I look at porn of 14 year old girls? Can I leave my firearm loaded in the glove comp just in case? Yes to all, but I face the law, and those laws catch people and work. Nothing will ever stop folks from doing what they want, but a guy with 50 guns was just taken into custody, kiddie porn trafficers are jailed and those who look at the material are at risk and often caught and drunk drivers are caught and those deaths have dropped since those laws took place.

Military state is not the state where everybody have to and by the way like to join the army but state which is controlled by military
commanders. Israel is democratic state controlled by elected government. Army is what they must use to exist.
Cannot agree more - the lows are working but they cannot prevent every shooting and every crime. To have a low is not enough.
The society must change to stop promoting and commercializing violence. People with weak minds cannot stop playing the computer game or watch action movie and take or to the street or to the school. You cannot bun all of this by creating new lows and bans.
It's a good old thing - "All we need is Love, Love is all we need"

agree on all this... your right about Israel, and thats honestly what I meant, just meaning that the military there is everywhere because it has to be. They have armed guards at schools to protect against a clearly defined threat. Whats ours?

Agree 100% on the love part also man. Understanding and compassion is where it must start, but those are not gov instilled values, they are community. I dont have the answer there, except as parent I take responsibility for my kids. I was lucky to grow up in a house free of racism and hate. Im passing that along. Some are not so lucky, and some are just broken. Action is always important though, even if its effectiveness is in question.

Pretty good article too summ it all on good live example.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-us-should-learn-from-israel-how-to-permit-not-outlaw-guns/2012/12/16/
It is time to stop yapping and start working on the solutions.
But not sure if our buroucratic governments on all levels can do any work. And this is really sad...

The Jewish Press is one of the most right wing papers you can ever read, strictly catering to the ultra orthodox.

So what it has to do with the facts and solution that works?
If you are black and KKK member saved you and your family for burning house is he still you worst enemy?

I did not even read the article.

I refuse to read any articles in propaganda papers.

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jazz74 wrote:i didnt read the earlier posts so this might have been covered. though i live in jersey, my parents are from the south, an area that they own guns like they own toothbrushes. i learned how to shoot them at a young age and i know people who look at the beginning of hunting season as a holiday so banning guns will be difficult to do. however, that doenst mean we cant have restricted laws for them. i more strenous process of getting guns and, most importantly, banning semi automatics. why have these type of guns? protection? pistols can do the job if you are worried. you dont use the gun to hunt so there is no purpose. things have to change, though, but it will be hard to do because unfortunately it has been part of our culture since the bill of rights.

this... and the laws work! The stats dont lie! Less guns, tougher restrictions, logner waiting periods, no semi automatic weapons... these things work. They help. So long as guns can be obtained there will be gun violence, but measures can be taken to limit these types of incidents.

The only thing that kept the mall shooter from killing a 100 people (I think I read he had 300 rounds?) was his freakin gun jammed. You cant do that kind of damage with shotguns or single shot rifles.

We have seen too closesly what happens in a nation that glorifies violence and sells it, when the mentally ill aquire weapons capable of this violence. There is no 100% prevention, but if just one of these were stopped or even limited isnt that worth it? Isnt it worth trying? Stats show this works!

Agree with all this.

However, good luck fighting the powerful/brain dead NRA

I work for a European bank and am on the phone daily with my UK counterparts. Lots of good friends there. I asked for an honest opinion regarding the coverage. Lots of coverage, very deep and they ALL think we are out of our minds and are a little suprised there isnt more of this.

US owns all the guns, US tops in the world in gun violence. Shocking correlation!

JamesLin wrote:

izybx wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

JamesLin wrote:
2. It is our constitutional rights. There's a reason behind this. What if the government becomes fascists? So if only military people have guns, we're screwed.

This 'right' is so outdated, it's ridiculous. It kind of made sense when the governments best weapons were guns and the occasional cannon, but the US military is so much more mightily armed now than it was then, guns would be useless in a conflict- really do you honestly believe that you and your gun is going to protect you against fighter jets, nuclear missiles, gas, tanks, explosives, etc etc?

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan has the same situation.

I'm not sure but if all civilians, which population is at least 10 times more than our army troops and local enforcers population combined, carry guns and start taking over the state governments and I mean all 50, do you think jets and nuclear missiles, gas tanks, explosives will all matter at all? Look at history: England thought they had us back in colonial days, guess what, locals carry guns and took over the land. So you say outdated? Well, USSR collapsed because local people rebelled and took over the states with guns and army and became countries of their own. Also look at China during Tiananmen Square, people had no rights to guns, but revolted without guns.. look at China now, any changes? I think not. There's 2 major current proofs that enforces the importance of why people should have the rights to bear arms.

You should look at my other lists and make counter arguments if you really want to make me or anyone else believe guns should be banned. I'm just saying.

that's not what happened in USSR.

playa2 wrote:Look what happened when a citizen was armed when the gunman opened fire on innocent civilians

Proof that carrying a gun and not knowing what to do with it can do more damage than good

IronWillGiroud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Making guns illegal is a solution but I do not think it is a possibility in US.
It is possible to do and was done in totalitarian countries because to make it work you need a total control of people lives.
It was done in countries which are advanced enough to reject violence. US is surrey not - we embrace it in movies, comic books, video games, sports, entertainment. So we collectively get what we are asking for.
In US this ban will only lead to creation of all-powerful gun mafia same as it did with boos and drags.
Mafia will get the biggest gains from this ban.
Every kid can get drugs from drug dealers any time he want in any place in this country. He just need money and sometimes he will get drugs for free to make him an addict and a "good customer" in the future.Why this will be different with guns?
We need to stop glorify violence even if violence is done by "good guys" and "superheros". Can we?
I am not sure. It is much more difficult that just ban the guns.

ahhh... no, no they cant. Again, more totally fabricated notions to support an opnion.

You want drugs you have to look and ask, and that looking and asking alone may lead to you getting caught. Yes, in high school (80s) weed and beer were mostly available if you knew someone with an older sybling or connection. Anything harder was rare, and if you got desperate for weed and had go buy off the street you were at pretty big risk of getting caught, getting your ass kicked or getting ripped off. So no, any kid that says "lets get high" cant just go out and do it. Sorry.

Mentall illness is a much bigger issue.

Its not the mafia and drug guns that are the problem. Those are mostly used on other mafia and drug gangs/dealers.

I agree that this small provincial places have less drag availability but in NY, NJ, LA... you go to certain place and you will find drug dealer at every corner.
Yes you can get in trouble by asking... but with guns when somebody determined to go on shooting spree... he will take chance to ask.
Guns are banned in Russia but terrorist came to school in Beslan and killed hundreds of people, mostly kids.
There are better solutions but they are costly.
For example with all the endless Jihad and Islamic terror attacks that hit Israel, kids in schools are safe because every school has armed guards at points of entry. People never barge into schools in Israel and start a shooting rampage. They would be shot and killed immediately. You cannot murder children in Israeli schools because the adults treat them like the priceless treasures they are.
We do have guards in NYC schools especially in bad neighborhoods so why not to make it a requirement. It will be a good use of Army and Reserve to serve the society and will create a lot of jobs in security firms.

agree... but your examples are not good because they have little relevence here. The Russian attack came in an area of a hundred years of ethnic hate and violence. The Israeli school example also doesnt fit as they are a military state and under constant attack of that nature.

And I live in NJ, and if you dont know someone you have to go to an area of very high risk if you want to buy drugs off a street. There's a damn good chance that dopey rich kids driving around slummy areas in nice cars asking random dudes where they can get some hooch are gonna get caught and fast. It *seems* easy but its not that easy and its high risk. The deterent works (breaking the law).

Its got to be harder to get these types of weapons. They were all legally aquired. You cant stop this crime, but the laws work and the evidence cant be refuted. There is no solution, but it doesnt mean there cant be progress. (assuming fake crying Obamo doesnt order more attacks on children to push his legislation)

Israel is not a military state. You probably never visited otherwise you will now that this is liberal propoganda nonsense.
Israely people are bearing arms to protect their state and their people from enemies who cannot accept their existence.
Is it the same as we Americans are stand for and were made of?
There is no middle ground here - or we all have rights to protect themselves with guns or nobody has.
Instead we as society want to come up with some "politically correct" solution to please everybody.
Time to stop this bs and make a decision what is more important and essential - freedom or security.

no... never been to Israel. Have some friends who have an and served in the army as that is mandatory. It is a 100% a military state. Just check the population vs the size of the army and military resources. Yes, its for their protection for the reasons you mention. My point is simply they have a threat the US does not.

There's always a middle ground. Concessions can be made by both sides. Its legal to drink and drive right? Its legal to look at porn right? Its legal to own a firearm right? But can I get loaded and drive? Can I look at porn of 14 year old girls? Can I leave my firearm loaded in the glove comp just in case? Yes to all, but I face the law, and those laws catch people and work. Nothing will ever stop folks from doing what they want, but a guy with 50 guns was just taken into custody, kiddie porn trafficers are jailed and those who look at the material are at risk and often caught and drunk drivers are caught and those deaths have dropped since those laws took place.

Military state is not the state where everybody have to and by the way like to join the army but state which is controlled by military
commanders. Israel is democratic state controlled by elected government. Army is what they must use to exist.
Cannot agree more - the lows are working but they cannot prevent every shooting and every crime. To have a low is not enough.
The society must change to stop promoting and commercializing violence. People with weak minds cannot stop playing the computer game or watch action movie and take or to the street or to the school. You cannot bun all of this by creating new lows and bans.
It's a good old thing - "All we need is Love, Love is all we need"

agree on all this... your right about Israel, and thats honestly what I meant, just meaning that the military there is everywhere because it has to be. They have armed guards at schools to protect against a clearly defined threat. Whats ours?

Agree 100% on the love part also man. Understanding and compassion is where it must start, but those are not gov instilled values, they are community. I dont have the answer there, except as parent I take responsibility for my kids. I was lucky to grow up in a house free of racism and hate. Im passing that along. Some are not so lucky, and some are just broken. Action is always important though, even if its effectiveness is in question.

Pretty good article too summ it all on good live example.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-us-should-learn-from-israel-how-to-permit-not-outlaw-guns/2012/12/16/
It is time to stop yapping and start working on the solutions.
But not sure if our buroucratic governments on all levels can do any work. And this is really sad...

The Jewish Press is one of the most right wing papers you can ever read, strictly catering to the ultra orthodox.

So what it has to do with the facts and solution that works?
If you are black and KKK member saved you and your family for burning house is he still you worst enemy?

I did not even read the article.

I refuse to read any articles in propaganda papers.

You should really read it. It makes too much sense to ignore.

Ignorance is not helping much my friend.
This is anothe one - just a news... but are we not a screwed up nation:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-sales-spike-virginia-colorado-record-highest-background-174415554.html

playa2 wrote:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY FOR THOSE WHO LOVE AMERICAN FREEDOM

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round
ed up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.

You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~

All the above is not about gun control but about restricting the gun ownership only to government appointed institutions.
Every low abiding citizen must have rights and ability to have a gun but the deliberate and clear process should be established to check the abilities of this citizen to mindfully use it. You are not giving guns to criminals, mentally ill/unstable people, underage, and members of cults and criminal organizations.
We cannot afford any more to have guns decide who should have a gun and who should die with the gun.
It is not Wild West time any more. We are better that this.
Having good practices in place to allow guns ownership based on background check and mental examination are not something new or rocket science.
It is a lot of work and money required to do this right, but is this what our officials and taxes are for?

arkrud wrote:

playa2 wrote:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY FOR THOSE WHO LOVE AMERICAN FREEDOM

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round
ed up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.

You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~

All the above is not about gun control but about restricting the gun ownership only to government appointed institutions.

If you know the history of the Govt, you give them an inch and they will take a mile. Once you voluntarily give in to gun control, they will create a worse atrocity involving guns and then demand of every citizen to give them up , which will never happen. This is when civil war takes place when U.N troops are called in.

arkrud wrote:

playa2 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

playa2 wrote:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY FOR THOSE WHO LOVE AMERICAN FREEDOM

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round
ed up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.

You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~

All the above is not about gun control but about restricting the gun ownership only to government appointed institutions.

If you know the history of the Govt, you give them an inch and they will take a mile. Once you voluntarily give in to gun control, they will create a worse atrocity involving guns and then demand of every citizen to give them up , which will never happen. This is when civil war takes place when U.N troops are called in.

The only way citizens can fight the government is by engaging in public process on reasonable ground.
You look at the powers as some specific person (dictator) or group of conspirators but in fact this is just assembled by chance unstable structure.
They do not have face and they do not have plan for world domination. They just want to get as much money and spotlights as possible.
America is the best country with government constructed the way it cannot function if it has no support from the majority of the public.
And to keep this system going all of us should be on the side of common sense. Any extreme will only help to break this proven system down.
So no panic, no screaming, no extreme. We need smart people proposing and implementing smart solutions.
I know it is boring for you man, but this is the only way we as a society can move forward.

What do you mean ? I don't own a gun , im not screaming or an extremist...just a messenger of what to look out for.

What we need to do is, find a way to make guns harder to acquire. However, the whole Connecticut thing is even harder to define who is qualified. Nancy Lanza was the main cause of this whole mess, but she was qualified. Who would've thought she would let her son in the basement playing Call of Duty 24/7, teach her mentally challenged son how to shoot guns, and eventually led to Adam killing his mother along with so many innocent victims? I mean can you find any way to filter out that Nancy Lanza was not qualified to own guns?