CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Never thought I'd see the day that Knick "fans" root against the guy who is a main piece in leading them Knicks to success. It's baffling. Bets being made with the beter hoping that the Knick player DOESN'T get MVP of the NBA? Once upon a time stuff like that didn't happen around this proud city. This board either. These days, the prisoners are running the jail. It's weird. What happened here? Maybe these types of things bother me more than some others. Is everyone here from NY? Sometimes I get the feeling that the opinions I'm hearing are from that of a person from Tennessee somewhere, who happens to be a Knick "fan" but far from a New Yorker. Not saying every Knicks fan has to be from NYC but there is a pride that's missing with some. That diehard, ride or die, win-lose-or draw type thing. I don't know man....

you are rooting for a dude who forced his way here primarily for money-- showing contempt for success and winning, heedless of the team that was being built here and with players had already endeared themselves to the fanbase. he had a willing partner for this transaction in the owner who has been nothing but a knuckle-dragging loser his whole tenure, caring only about putting fans in seats and treating the fanbase with a superlative amount of cynicism and contempt for years and years and years.

so while he is starting to succeed a little bit, it will always come at a price... for he has justly earned the contempt of those fans who saw what he did as contemptuous. in life you get back what you give, or what goes around comes around.

you want his detractors to shut up? WIN THE FUCKING TITLE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS

I couldn't disagree more. Melo wanted out of Denver. With a lockout looming and owners threatening to take back players rights and restrict free agency he pushed to be traded. He would not have stayed in Denver past the trade deadline if the Knicks didn't make the move to get him. Most likely he would be a Net. The Nuggets were not going to wait and get nothing for him. This argumement that Anthony was going to wait for a new cba before getting a contract makes no sense. Expecting the Nuggets to take nothing for Melo so the Knicks could keep their team makes no sense. The previous summer teams like Cleveland and Toronto got destroyed by free agency. Don't you think DEnver would move him to prevent that. Come on now. You can't create fantasy scenarios that never would have happened and criticize a guy because you are not based in reality.

This +100000

Situations that you don't have direct knowledge of should not be thrown around as facts.

As far as the trade situation, here are some facts from journalist and experts that actually investigated the situation and took time to do the research, since it their job!

ESPN

And though he took some criticism from Knicks fans who would have preferred getting him for nothing instead of a costly trade, he made
the correct financial decision given the current lockout.

"I think I did the right thing. For the average person out there who really thought I was just trying to get up and just leave for no reason, that really was a big key in my decision," Anthony said. "I knew free agency was coming, I knew it would be altered, I knew it'd be messed up, so imagine if I'd have stayed. I'd have been a free agent now in limbo. It'd have just been all bad."

Sports illustrated:

Anthony said the ongoing collective bargaining negotiations between the league and its players have created a sense of urgency for him.

"I've been sitting in meetings with the owners and seeing what is their problem with everything," he said. "I've been in several of the meetings to know what the problem is and what's going on. It's going to take some time to get the owners and the players on the same page."

Is there going to be a lockout?

"Oh, without a doubt," he said. "Without a doubt."

So that's another reason to sign the extension now, I said.

"Exactly."

You could wait until the summer, I went on, but there is no telling which teams may have cap space or what the rules of the next CBA will allow you to do as a free agent.

"Everything you say right now, I lie on the table and try to break down every situation, every scenario," he said. "Everything you're saying, I've already [put] thought into it. You don't know what the future's going to bring. That's how I have to look at it, because I don't really know what's going to happen in the future."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/01/18/carmelo/index.html#ixzz2Ez4aEn2H

Those are facts, that's reality, not your opinion on a matter, when you're not in a room with that man, his family, friends, and agent.

As far as TKF saying any NBA player can survive on their salary, how many professional athletes do you know? Your reality and life situations are not the same as theirs. Normally, I wouldn't say this... but I have to professional athletes in my family 1. D. Coleman -- who is currently BROKE! and Jerome Bettis, and I can tell you, millions for them is like you making 50,000 a year.

I don't know what race you are, but in the black community, when someone makes it, your "family" becomes everyone around you. Everyone is looking for a hand out. I can expect you didn't watch the ESPN feature on going "Broke". From college tutions being paid to new cars to helping your childhood friend out on a business investment, athletes are forced to make financial decisions daily!

Here is some insight on a rookie Tyron Smith who's dealing with just that:

Smith, who was the NFL’s youngest player last year, gave his family a substantial amount of money after signing a four-year, $12.5 million contract in July 2011, sources said, after he was drafted with the ninth overall pick out of the University of Southern California. However, family members keep coming back for more, sources said.

Over the summer, Smith filed a protective order against his stepfather, Roy Pinkney, and his mother, Frankie Pinkney, to keep them from having any contact with him. The protective order also prohibits contact from Smith’s parents through his siblings. Frankie Pinkney, who resides in Southern California, didn’t return several phone calls seeking comment.

So, to personally attack someone or to act like their reality is yours, is an unfair and basically flat out wrong.

dk7th wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:This is a business. Get over it. Carmelo did what was best for him and his family, which any MAN should do. That comes first, I don't care what anyone says. With the lock out a lot was uncertain, and for him to have an extension and his contract in place was important. We didn't have to sign him!!!! Go and get someone else. He wanted his contract situation to be done with whether it was with Nets or whomever, but the Knicks was the first choice.

wrong. an ETHICAL MAN would not have done what he did. and spare me the pathetic "family" angle WTF is that?!? the dude would have still made 85 million and you have no conception of how much that is, nor does he. it was pride not pragmatism. rest assured he doesn't understand "order of magnitude." but you do, right? "we didn't have to sign him"? again wrong. WALSH didn't have to sign him but DOLAN did-- but not for reasons of winning.

in business you define success by earnings. but in sports business success means WINNING. dolan doesn't understand this and carmelo didn't care. how convenient to talk "money" as business and only afterwards talk winning. both dolan and melo share false values. apparently some alleged "true knick fans" share those false values. i don't like hypocrites but that won't stop others from admiring hypocrites.

The problems with your presumption and labeling of Melo as unethical is that you do not know anything about Melo on a first-hand basis. You only know what you are told by second or third hand observers who may or may not be ethical. It is interesting that you quote Kant, the ultimate moral police philosopher who basically saw everything as black and white with no wiggle room or grey area. According to Kant's philosophy, in order to determine if Melo was Ethical in the situation where he demanded a trade from Denver....then you would have to place everyone in the same situation to understand if everyone would have done the same thing.

The more applicable western philosopher to this situation would be Descartes. He might have argued that while we can question Melo's motives, there is no way to prove anything of substance. He might also say that what happened in the past with Melo and Dolan does not define the present situation as there are too many unconnectable variables that led the team to this point. Melo is on the Knicks and the Knicks are currently winning with Melo....so therefore in this single moment of time, all is well.

The rest of your commentary on values and hypocrites is pretty much huff and puff filler as there is no way for you to know for sure what Dolan's motives were, what other fans truly feel about Melo and what the magnitude of salary differential caused by the new CBA would feel like for Melo. You are just making assumptions and attaching your own moral code on those assumptions as if they were facts.

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:This is a business. Get over it. Carmelo did what was best for him and his family, which any MAN should do. That comes first, I don't care what anyone says. With the lock out a lot was uncertain, and for him to have an extension and his contract in place was important. We didn't have to sign him!!!! Go and get someone else. He wanted his contract situation to be done with whether it was with Nets or whomever, but the Knicks was the first choice.

wrong. an ETHICAL MAN would not have done what he did. and spare me the pathetic "family" angle WTF is that?!? the dude would have still made 85 million and you have no conception of how much that is, nor does he. it was pride not pragmatism. rest assured he doesn't understand "order of magnitude." but you do, right? "we didn't have to sign him"? again wrong. WALSH didn't have to sign him but DOLAN did-- but not for reasons of winning.

in business you define success by earnings. but in sports business success means WINNING. dolan doesn't understand this and carmelo didn't care. how convenient to talk "money" as business and only afterwards talk winning. both dolan and melo share false values. apparently some alleged "true knick fans" share those false values. i don't like hypocrites but that won't stop others from admiring hypocrites.

The problems with your presumption and labeling of Melo as unethical is that you do not know anything about Melo on a first-hand basis. You only know what you are told by second or third hand observers who may or may not be ethical. It is interesting that you quote Kant, the ultimate moral police philosopher who basically saw everything as black and white with no wiggle room or grey area. According to Kant's philosophy, in order to determine if Melo was Ethical in the situation where he demanded a trade from Denver....then you would have to place everyone in the same situation to understand if everyone would have done the same thing.

The more applicable western philosopher to this situation would be Descartes. He might have argued that while we can question Melo's motives, there is no way to prove anything of substance. He might also say that what happened in the past with Melo and Dolan does not define the present situation as there are too many unconnectable variables that led the team to this point. Melo is on the Knicks and the Knicks are currently winning with Melo....so therefore in this single moment of time, all is well.

The rest of your commentary on values and hypocrites is pretty much huff and puff filler as there is no way for you to know for sure what Dolan's motives were, what other fans truly feel about Melo and what the magnitude of salary differential caused by the new CBA would feel like for Melo. You are just making assumptions and attaching your own moral code on those assumptions as if they were facts.

Great post!

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:In contention but he won't win. You need numbers. You need more than 1 stat to actually win MVP. Melo only has the scoring. Lebron or Durant have better all around stats

I agree that he probably doesn't get it but Melo always averages close to 7 boards a game.

For a PF, that is bad. When Melo was playing SF last year, he was averaging around 5.5 rbs a game and my guess is that that is what he'd have again at SF.

Melo is not a PF and is undersized for that position. I don't know what you expect. Amar'e grabs 8 boards at the PF spot and people claim that is bad as well. Go figure.

NUPE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:In contention but he won't win. You need numbers. You need more than 1 stat to actually win MVP. Melo only has the scoring. Lebron or Durant have better all around stats

I agree that he probably doesn't get it but Melo always averages close to 7 boards a game.

For a PF, that is bad. When Melo was playing SF last year, he was averaging around 5.5 rbs a game and my guess is that that is what he'd have again at SF.

Melo is not a PF and is undersized for that position. I don't know what you expect. Amar'e grabs 8 boards at the PF spot and people claim that is bad as well. Go figure.

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's about 10 NBA analysts and probably 5-10 players who agree on Melo being in the MVP discussion.

And then there's fishmike and tkf.

Stop it already. It's Lebron, KD, and everyone else.

pretty much is.. think about it.. despite the knicks nice start, players of the month for november were.. lebron and Durant.. what a surprise.. huh? but hey, I heard carmelo was in the "conversation"..

It doesn't really matter for me if Melo's in the conversation or not, or if he's top 3 or top 15.

He's balling and leading our #1 place 16-5 team. He's playing "the right way". Isn't that all that matters to us as Knicks fans?

Exactly how I feel.