EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We might make a trade this year--but I highly doubt its for Carmelo--people are not being realistic. Denver has a whole season with a very good team in front of them--exactly why do they want to change their season? Worse case scenario is they lose melo and pick up assets for the 6th year like Miami did with LBJ--keep massive cap space and enjoy a good season this year

Worst case scenario for Denver is that they lose him for basically nothing, like the Suns did with Amare (we might give them a traded player exception, but you never know, otherwise, they got a top 55 protected 2nd round pick).

Otherwise, I think the broad generalizations on what we gave up in the McGrady trade by TMS and Anubis are a bit much.

Without too much detail, this is what we got out of the Jeffries/Hill trade:

1) We got Tracy McGrady. That didn't pan out.
2) We got Sergio Rodriguez. That didn't pan out (anyone know if we still have his RFA rights since he left prior to getting a qualifying offer (I think we retain his rights like Atlanta retained Josh Childress' rights)
3) We made a max offer to two max free agents-- we only got one-- Amare.
4) We were able to sign Amare while keeping the bird rights to David Lee. That allowed us to sign and trade David Lee for Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf and a 2012 2nd round pick.
5) We signed Ray Felton for $6M
6) We had cap space to pay an additional $3M to buyout Timofey Mozgov's contract in Russia and give him a contract.
7) We signed Roger Mason (doesn't look like it will pan out)

I'm not saying I would do that transaction the same way. Its clear to me that we could have dumped salary at a lower cost-- knowing that neither McGrady nor Rodriguez were going to be on the roster this year. I just don't think its worth re-hashing the trade in every new topic about a trade possibility. mean, why not go back to the Patrick Ewing trade and point out what could have been. If it should have been--- it would have been.

Thank you!! Finally someone has listed the outcomes from this trade correctly, we got TMac, S-Rod in the trade. We got Felton and Moz later on and the Lee trade was only possible due to the additional cap space. But yeah we traded real ASS-ets for nothing but cap space. I am getting so tired of this same shyt showing up on each thread, I have basically stopped reading the threads. Not that people should stop posting their opinions based on my feelings, but this has carried on for soo long with so little value added in the form of discussion that I have basically given up on it.

loweyecue wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We might make a trade this year--but I highly doubt its for Carmelo--people are not being realistic. Denver has a whole season with a very good team in front of them--exactly why do they want to change their season? Worse case scenario is they lose melo and pick up assets for the 6th year like Miami did with LBJ--keep massive cap space and enjoy a good season this year

Worst case scenario for Denver is that they lose him for basically nothing, like the Suns did with Amare (we might give them a traded player exception, but you never know, otherwise, they got a top 55 protected 2nd round pick).

Otherwise, I think the broad generalizations on what we gave up in the McGrady trade by TMS and Anubis are a bit much.

Without too much detail, this is what we got out of the Jeffries/Hill trade:

1) We got Tracy McGrady. That didn't pan out.
2) We got Sergio Rodriguez. That didn't pan out (anyone know if we still have his RFA rights since he left prior to getting a qualifying offer (I think we retain his rights like Atlanta retained Josh Childress' rights)
3) We made a max offer to two max free agents-- we only got one-- Amare.
4) We were able to sign Amare while keeping the bird rights to David Lee. That allowed us to sign and trade David Lee for Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf and a 2012 2nd round pick.
5) We signed Ray Felton for $6M
6) We had cap space to pay an additional $3M to buyout Timofey Mozgov's contract in Russia and give him a contract.
7) We signed Roger Mason (doesn't look like it will pan out)

I'm not saying I would do that transaction the same way. Its clear to me that we could have dumped salary at a lower cost-- knowing that neither McGrady nor Rodriguez were going to be on the roster this year. I just don't think its worth re-hashing the trade in every new topic about a trade possibility. mean, why not go back to the Patrick Ewing trade and point out what could have been. If it should have been--- it would have been.

Thank you!! Finally someone has listed the outcomes from this trade correctly, we got TMac, S-Rod in the trade. We got Felton and Moz later on and the Lee trade was only possible due to the additional cap space. But yeah we traded real ASS-ets for nothing but cap space. I am getting so tired of this same shyt showing up on each thread, I have basically stopped reading the threads. Not that people should stop posting their opinions based on my feelings, but this has carried on for soo long with so little value added in the form of discussion that I have basically given up on it.

you've given up on it because there are no arguments to be made to defend your position... the trade didn't work out well for us... in the end we got the cap space to sign Felton, Mozgov & Mason Jr out of that trade... for what we gave up i expected more... i guess you didn't.

crzymdups wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We might make a trade this year--but I highly doubt its for Carmelo--people are not being realistic. Denver has a whole season with a very good team in front of them--exactly why do they want to change their season? Worse case scenario is they lose melo and pick up assets for the 6th year like Miami did with LBJ--keep massive cap space and enjoy a good season this year

Worst case scenario for Denver is that they lose him for basically nothing, like the Suns did with Amare (we might give them a traded player exception, but you never know, otherwise, they got a top 55 protected 2nd round pick).

Otherwise, I think the broad generalizations on what we gave up in the McGrady trade by TMS and Anubis are a bit much.

Without too much detail, this is what we got out of the Jeffries/Hill trade:

1) We got Tracy McGrady. That didn't pan out.
2) We got Sergio Rodriguez. That didn't pan out (anyone know if we still have his RFA rights since he left prior to getting a qualifying offer (I think we retain his rights like Atlanta retained Josh Childress' rights)
3) We made a max offer to two max free agents-- we only got one-- Amare.
4) We were able to sign Amare while keeping the bird rights to David Lee. That allowed us to sign and trade David Lee for Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf and a 2012 2nd round pick.
5) We signed Ray Felton for $6M
6) We had cap space to pay an additional $3M to buyout Timofey Mozgov's contract in Russia and give him a contract.
7) We signed Roger Mason (doesn't look like it will pan out)

I'm not saying I would do that transaction the same way. Its clear to me that we could have dumped salary at a lower cost-- knowing that neither McGrady nor Rodriguez were going to be on the roster this year. I just don't think its worth re-hashing the trade in every new topic about a trade possibility. mean, why not go back to the Patrick Ewing trade and point out what could have been. If it should have been--- it would have been.

what broad generalizations specifically? i've said we gave up swap rights in '11, our '12 1st round pick & Jordan Hill to clear $9M in cap space... exactly which part of that am i generalizing? that $9M in cap space netted us Felton, Mozgov & Mason Jr.... i didn't even make mention of the broken down player that T-Mac was, or scrubs like Sergio Rodriguez... those guys were insignificant parts of the trade for me & that's exactly what they were... neither one of them were going to have a future here longterm.

you're leaving out AR, Turiaf and Kelenna. for the 1000th time.

we got those guys by trading David Lee, for the 1000th time... we had $27M in cap space in flexibility to use to improve our roster... we used up $16.5M of it in signing Amare... David Lee's making $10.8M this year... we only needed to clear another $2.3M or so to make the D Lee trade after factoring in the minimum salary cap holds for the other roster spots... that could have been done by trading Jordan Hill for a future pick... we didn't HAVE to give up swap rights in '11 or the '12 pick to get Anthony Randolph & cap filler, please.

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We might make a trade this year--but I highly doubt its for Carmelo--people are not being realistic. Denver has a whole season with a very good team in front of them--exactly why do they want to change their season? Worse case scenario is they lose melo and pick up assets for the 6th year like Miami did with LBJ--keep massive cap space and enjoy a good season this year

Worst case scenario for Denver is that they lose him for basically nothing, like the Suns did with Amare (we might give them a traded player exception, but you never know, otherwise, they got a top 55 protected 2nd round pick).

Otherwise, I think the broad generalizations on what we gave up in the McGrady trade by TMS and Anubis are a bit much.

Without too much detail, this is what we got out of the Jeffries/Hill trade:

1) We got Tracy McGrady. That didn't pan out.
2) We got Sergio Rodriguez. That didn't pan out (anyone know if we still have his RFA rights since he left prior to getting a qualifying offer (I think we retain his rights like Atlanta retained Josh Childress' rights)
3) We made a max offer to two max free agents-- we only got one-- Amare.
4) We were able to sign Amare while keeping the bird rights to David Lee. That allowed us to sign and trade David Lee for Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf and a 2012 2nd round pick.
5) We signed Ray Felton for $6M
6) We had cap space to pay an additional $3M to buyout Timofey Mozgov's contract in Russia and give him a contract.
7) We signed Roger Mason (doesn't look like it will pan out)

I'm not saying I would do that transaction the same way. Its clear to me that we could have dumped salary at a lower cost-- knowing that neither McGrady nor Rodriguez were going to be on the roster this year. I just don't think its worth re-hashing the trade in every new topic about a trade possibility. mean, why not go back to the Patrick Ewing trade and point out what could have been. If it should have been--- it would have been.

Thank you!! Finally someone has listed the outcomes from this trade correctly, we got TMac, S-Rod in the trade. We got Felton and Moz later on and the Lee trade was only possible due to the additional cap space. But yeah we traded real ASS-ets for nothing but cap space. I am getting so tired of this same shyt showing up on each thread, I have basically stopped reading the threads. Not that people should stop posting their opinions based on my feelings, but this has carried on for soo long with so little value added in the form of discussion that I have basically given up on it.

you've given up on it because there are no arguments to be made to defend your position... the trade didn't work out well for us... in the end we got the cap space to sign Felton, Mozgov & Mason Jr out of that trade... for what we gave up i expected more... i guess you didn't.

Actually I doubt any1 on this board did not expect "more" from this past summer. Except that "more" didn't happen and King James became LeDouche. You expected more. . .wait this sounds familular ! Oh, yeah , when we traded Randolph you didn't like that trade either. Your exact words were something very simular to "for what we gave up i expected more". But everything was still in progress at that time, the plan was in motion, so you just dropped it after a while. Well, here is your chance to really show us all. Our plan A didn't work out. If you so gladly pull out the "I told you so" card on the Hill trade, I think that it would only be logical for you to man up and do the same with Zach Randolph trade. Way to throw away the baby with the bathwater.

crzymdups wrote:

TMS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We might make a trade this year--but I highly doubt its for Carmelo--people are not being realistic. Denver has a whole season with a very good team in front of them--exactly why do they want to change their season? Worse case scenario is they lose melo and pick up assets for the 6th year like Miami did with LBJ--keep massive cap space and enjoy a good season this year

Worst case scenario for Denver is that they lose him for basically nothing, like the Suns did with Amare (we might give them a traded player exception, but you never know, otherwise, they got a top 55 protected 2nd round pick).

Otherwise, I think the broad generalizations on what we gave up in the McGrady trade by TMS and Anubis are a bit much.

Without too much detail, this is what we got out of the Jeffries/Hill trade:

1) We got Tracy McGrady. That didn't pan out.
2) We got Sergio Rodriguez. That didn't pan out (anyone know if we still have his RFA rights since he left prior to getting a qualifying offer (I think we retain his rights like Atlanta retained Josh Childress' rights)
3) We made a max offer to two max free agents-- we only got one-- Amare.
4) We were able to sign Amare while keeping the bird rights to David Lee. That allowed us to sign and trade David Lee for Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf and a 2012 2nd round pick.
5) We signed Ray Felton for $6M
6) We had cap space to pay an additional $3M to buyout Timofey Mozgov's contract in Russia and give him a contract.
7) We signed Roger Mason (doesn't look like it will pan out)

I'm not saying I would do that transaction the same way. Its clear to me that we could have dumped salary at a lower cost-- knowing that neither McGrady nor Rodriguez were going to be on the roster this year. I just don't think its worth re-hashing the trade in every new topic about a trade possibility. mean, why not go back to the Patrick Ewing trade and point out what could have been. If it should have been--- it would have been.

what broad generalizations specifically? i've said we gave up swap rights in '11, our '12 1st round pick & Jordan Hill to clear $9M in cap space... exactly which part of that am i generalizing? that $9M in cap space netted us Felton, Mozgov & Mason Jr.... i didn't even make mention of the broken down player that T-Mac was, or scrubs like Sergio Rodriguez... those guys were insignificant parts of the trade for me & that's exactly what they were... neither one of them were going to have a future here longterm.

you're leaving out AR, Turiaf and Kelenna. for the 1000th time.

we got those guys by trading David Lee, for the 1000th time... we had $27M in cap space in flexibility to use to improve our roster... we used up $16.5M of it in signing Amare... David Lee's making $10.8M this year... we only needed to clear another $2.3M or so to make the D Lee trade after factoring in the minimum salary cap holds for the other roster spots... that could have been done by trading Jordan Hill for a future pick... we didn't HAVE to give up swap rights in '11 or the '12 pick to get Anthony Randolph & cap filler, please.

David Lee had a cap hold of 150% his salary.

The trade was made in February when everyone in the league thought the cap would be 50-52M at best.

I like how you magically propose giving up two of the three the assets (JHill and one of those picks - you just said it above) you so desperately cling to in order to clear up that pesky $3M in cap room we needed.

The trade was a good one. Even if you're saying the Knicks get the David Lee trade and Amare for their cap room and Jordan Hill and one pick - that basically means you're admiting that Walsh was able to add Felton, Mozgov, Mason Jr for Jared Jeffries and a pick swap with Houston. If you're telling me would be able to trade Jeffries and a pick swap for even just Felton you are crazy.

Walsh made good use of limited assets.

And I think your main reason for constantly bemoaning this trade is you seem to think Carmelo would be ours if we had a first rounder to send to Denver. Well, that's not true. Denver isn't trading Melo until the trade deadline at best. If at all. If you think having one extra first round pick is what's keeping us from having Melo right now, you need to let it go.

wtf are you even talking about? i brought up the idea of trading Hill just to prove that we didn't have to make that T-Mac deal to get the David Lee trade done... you're the one bringing up that Lee trade in this discussion, not me... "desperately clinging"? dude, the only one desperately clinging to an argument is you... the trade was a failure & you're still deluding yourself into thinking it was a success... i'd like to have some of what you're smoking because it must be great to go through life never having to admit being wrong.

btw, get it straight... i said Jordan Hill FOR a future pick... not Jordan Hill AND a future pick... you guys seriously need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

ramtour420 wrote:

TMS wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:Actually I doubt any1 on this board did not expect "more" from this past summer. Except that "more" didn't happen and King James became LeDouche. You expected more. . .wait this sounds familular ! Oh, yeah , when we traded Randolph you didn't like that trade either. Your exact words were something very simular to "for what we gave up i expected more". But everything was still in progress at that time, the plan was in motion, so you just dropped it after a while. Well, here is your chance to really show us all. Our plan A didn't work out. If you so gladly pull out the "I told you so" card on the Hill trade, I think that it would only be logical for you to man up and do the same with Zach Randolph trade. Way to throw away the baby with the bathwater.

debating with liars like you is a waste of time because i never once said a bad thing about us trading Zach Randolph... i never wanted him here to begin with & was ecstatic we were able to dump his contract without having to give up any picks to do it... but i guess you must have some link to some mystery thread where i made these comments... if you do, please feel free to post the link... otherwise please stfu.

Please don't get upset. Maybe it wasn't Zbo, maybe it was Crawful. I don't really care and I will not go looking for links. If I am wrong, then I am sorry and I must have mixed you up with another poster. I am about 90% sure that it was you tho.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28999&page=1

in the above thread i debated subzero at length about the reasons why i thought trading Jamal & Zach was a boon for our franchise because we didn't have to give up any future assets to clear their contracts off our books... feel free to read through it before you spout off about some nonsense & cast false accusations my way.

turns out subzero was right that Lebron was not coming here all along, but in that case i think dumping Jamal & Zach directly enabled us to sign Amare this past summer... so those 2 trades have proven to be a big success... the trades to clear Fishlips' contract off our books has been an abject failure, unless u think Felton, Mozgov & Mason Jr. are worth giving up a 1st round pick, swap rights & a rookie we just drafted in the lottery the year before that at the time was still considered someone with good upside potential by other GM's around the league, including the GM that traded for him.

TMS wrote:http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28999&page=1

nice read... still cant get over how folks wanted those 2 cats around...