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Carmelo Unlikely to stay with Nuggs
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fishmike
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8/19/2010  12:36 PM
Andrew wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Why I don't get from fans is this

We just witnessed a free agency where there was no movement--none. If carmelo really wanst to come here like Lebron wanted to go to Miami--he will just be quiet and play out his year--what happened with Bosh and LBJ--they just played out the year. Next year we can evaluate who might need to go where. But if a guy is willing to come FREE--if teams around the league realize he is going to NY and wont pony up--why the H would you big against yourself for something that would happen--again for fREE anyway/?? This was a rebuild--it takes 2-3 years--we will be good this year--why cant fans sit back and think. No one is stealing melo if HE WANTS to come to NY--so sit back and let it happen. Miami fans sat back and played out thye year--and they were rewarded---I think NY fans have to be appeased at the moment so to speak--if we give up everything that Denver would want--wed stink anyway even with melo.

I want Gallo Randolph and hopefully Chandler as 10 year Knicks--we argued about who we should draft Gallo or Randolph and we frikin have both of them --and now because people do NOT have common sense or are spastic want to give it away--just chill and get it for free. Go get some sun and relax and let things play out over the next year.

I think the difference between Melo and this past years FAs is the timing of the new CBA. It is quite possible and understandable that Melo wants to be in a city of his choice and also make the max under the current CBA. He takes a risk by waiting until next off season and the possible salary restrictions a new agreement may have. By getting the trade done this season he can be extended under the team that he goes to. Its the best deal for him.


but thats his risk not ours.. also he is NOT Lebron. We win more games with him because of his crunch time scoring. He's a bonafide finisher for sure, but Briggs is right. Think about the heated debates about Gallo vs. AR and how best to rebuild. Now have them both. Bigs take longer to develop and our 2 guys are 21 years old. Last year was Gallo's rookie year essentially and 15/5 is a solid rookie campain. It was the big shots, commitment to defense and fire on the court people are excited about.

AR just needs to stay healthy and on the court. The guy has had some sick games.

Melo is a scorer and has played on teams with frontcourts LOADED with size. Camby, Nene, Anderson, KMart... I just dont think we should be desperate for this guy. He's NOT Lebron

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Olbrannon
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8/19/2010  12:49 PM
You might add that FA signings have not always yielded the expected results.
Allan Houston and TMac are just a couple of examples.
Signing a max player is not a guaranteed thing. And I'm not referring to TMac to NYK
but his earlier stints. Team chemistry matters too.

Melo for what the Knicks offered is not a bad deal. For what they want it is a bad deal
Come February Denver likely is a bit more ...tractable.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Moonangie
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8/19/2010  2:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/19/2010  3:15 PM
+1 to patience. If we have to part with Gallo to get Melo for this season, I definitely consider it. They play the same position and as has been mentioned, Melo is one of the top scorers in the NBA = perfect for MDA's scoring-is-the-best-defense system. It would make more sense to keep AR as he brings size, length and shot-blocking that we need. Gallo won't get enough burn with Melo playing the 3. He would be wasted here and become unhappy.

Still, if at all possible, we should wait. Our leverage can only go UP UP UP this season, and if it's true Melo-2-NY is a sure thing, why give Denver anything? Melo can be traded to another team for assets, assure that team (i.e., the suckas) he is interested in staying on (LOL@LAC) and then dump and run this summer to come to NYC.

Only the Nets (or whatever they gwine be called) give me a bit of a scare in stealing our homey from us. But Walsh won't blow this deal. If he thinks we may miss Melo, he will unload Curry + Gallo + TD + future protected first rounder to get Melo. The draft picks will help a rebuilding team WAY more than a top-3 seed in the East, which is what we will be with this squad:

Turiaf/Mozgov/Randolph
Stat
Melo
Buke/Chandler/Walker
Felton

with Randolph off the bench and playing 35+ minutes at the 4 & 5. Sick team. Melo will make Stat into an authentic max guy!
BRIGGS
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8/19/2010  3:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/19/2010  3:12 PM
Olbrannon wrote:You might add that FA signings have not always yielded the expected results.
Allan Houston and TMac are just a couple of examples.
Signing a max player is not a guaranteed thing. And I'm not referring to TMac to NYK
but his earlier stints. Team chemistry matters too.

Melo for what the Knicks offered is not a bad deal. For what they want it is a bad deal
Come February Denver likely is a bit more ...tractable.

that is a good example to bring up--many people forget or are to young to remember that one of our GMs got Tmac and grant Hill in there absolute prime in free agency--you know what the results were. Too much risk--must build the army like walsh did in Indiana. Team over star--Detroit pistons look it up. Im wrong 90% of he time--this one Im convinced Im right about--no trade for Melo--keep what we have be patient and get him in FA for 0.

RIP Crushalot😞
Rookie
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8/20/2010  10:13 AM
has anyone considered option 'B'......Melo wants more than the offered 3 years under this CBA? I wouldn't be surprised if in the end Melo does the anti Lebron and signs a 5-6 year max deal in Denver...for me the question is will Denver give up future flexibility under a new CBA and sign their franchise player to a longer term extension.....just another tea leave to consider
knicks1248
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8/20/2010  10:30 AM
Olbrannon wrote:You might add that FA signings have not always yielded the expected results.
Allan Houston and TMac are just a couple of examples.
Signing a max player is not a guaranteed thing. And I'm not referring to TMac to NYK
but his earlier stints. Team chemistry matters too.

Melo for what the Knicks offered is not a bad deal. For what they want it is a bad deal
Come February Denver likely is a bit more ...tractable.

How many deals have actually been fair to begin with, one team almost always walks away with the better deal. Yeah..our offer is benifiting us, there wants, is benifiting them.

The kidd for steph, seemed like a solid fair deal at the time, we all know how that turn out.

ES
Finestrg
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8/20/2010  11:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/20/2010  1:29 PM
After thinking about this for a few days, I'm still on the fence..It's definitely a 2-sided argument --- while Melo may not be Micheal Jordan or Kobe Bryant, that's true, the man definitely makes us better. But I agree with the other side -- not at the expense of gutting the entire team. AR & Gallo together in any deal is much too much (even AR by himself isn't something that interests me--if it were up to me, that kid's not going anywhere. He's off the table right from the moment we acquired him--for the time being anyway, at least until we see how he fits here, next to Amar'e and co. Kid's got way too much upside--more than Gallinari imo), however I do feel Gallo & Chandler together with a future pick is something that makes some sense. Ask yourselves these important questions: Is Melo an upgrade over Gallo? Yes he is, clearly. Will Gallo ever reach Melo's level? Not sure but educated guess by what we've seen so far - no he won't. Is Melo young enough to justify giving up on a young talent like Danilo? Yes, he's right in his prime with possibly 5 years or more at top play. Where would he play? He'd slip right into Gallo's SF role and provide a substantial upgrade. And the biggest thing of all -- he definitely makes up more competitive against Miami who is now the new superpower in the league -- right in our conference no less..The bar has been set -- Miami is what we need to start thinking about now, nothing else...I kinda look at it as a disservice to Amar'e if we don't get involved -- Amar'e's in his prime but not getting any younger. Amar'e needs the horses around him to compete against the squad Riley just put together in South Beach. If we don't do everything we can to make that happen, it was a waste to even give Amar'e the $100M..He can't do it by himself, nor do I expect him to..As is we're an interesting team on paper all of a sudden where a lot of the pieces look to fit nicely with each other but it's all about stacking up with Miami now...Carmelo definitely helps us in that regard. Consider Denver's win against Cleveland last year IN CLEVELAND that the NBA channel keeps replaying (here's the highlights):

Yeah 'Bron had 43 and a triple-double but Melo kept pace with 40 of his own and shined most WHEN IT MATTERED to get the Nuggets that victory..I don't know what else to say other than IMPRESSIVE. We're looking at a guy that on any given night can OUTPLAY LeBron and win that matchup. How many players in the league can do that?? As good as Gallo is right now and might be one day -- HE WILL NEVER OUTPLAY LeBRON JAMES in any game of importance...That will be a severe mismatch we'll continually have to deal with against Miami..Melo's proven that he can go toe to toe with this dude however..Melo on LeBron is A LOT more favorable matchup for the Knicks than Gallo vs. Lebron -- let's be honest..Goes a long way in leveling the playing field.

Consider this scenario -- Melo's pretty much let the cat outta the bag now more or less -- it doesn't look like he's all that interested in staying in Denver..How does that make him look with the DEN fans right about now?? Not too good I would think -- I would think he probably would want something to go down ASAP before he suffers any kind of backlash from that fanbase. That could be a real tough place to play this year, in front of fans who think he's gonna bolt on them a-la LeBron...He could be looking at it like NY needs to get this done soon..And if we don't, if we decide to play it cool and wait, maybe he decides to go elsewhere -- he supposedly has a list of a few teams (Orlando, Portland) that he'd be willing to go to and sign on long-term..Point is, it's not only NY..If Melo feels NY isn't being aggressive enough, who's to say he doesn't wind up going somewhere else to another team on his list to avoid playing in front of a potentially hostile/uncomfortable enviornment for 41 games this year..Those DEN fans aren't stupid and neither is Melo -- the divorce looks like it's already underway -- now it's a matter of Melo landing somewhere on his feet, in a spot he's comfortable in..And I would think the sooner the better as far as Carmelo's concerned...NY looks to be his first choice but I don't necessarily think it's HIS ONLY CHOICE..The man's got a lot to consider here..Even if it's not NY...See what I'm getting at? No guarantee he's saying to himself, yeah, I'll just wait it out the whole year and then go to NY..DEN fans will see the writing on the wall coming a mile away, esp. on the heels of this LeBron/Cleveland disaster..I can definitely see that -- if DEN gets off to a poor start 10, 15, 20 games into the season, their fans could turn on their star player in a hurry.. You think he'd want to deal with that headache for an entire NBA season?? I'd be willing to bet he'd want Donnie to come get him now rather than go through a long season in Denver. If NY isn't aggressive enough though, he could just decide to go to his second choice -- Orlando and Portland are two very good teams btw..That's the risk we're looking at right now..

My whole point boils down to this -- risk and all, I agree with some of you -- AR, Gallo, Chandler, Fields (I want Fields signed already-WTF?, JJ too---I want to keep Fields), picks, etc.. is way too much to give up in any one trade. I totally agree. But Gallo, Chandler, Curry's expiring & a future 1 -- I think that's a reasonable trade offer...If there's any truth to the rumor that Donnie's offered up that package, I'm OK with it. Melo's a better player than Gallinari, Chandler's replaceable, and if we're as good as I think we'll be in a couple of years (where Melo makes us even better) what will that pick be? Mid to low 20s right? We can always buy a pick in that range..Donnie's playing this right so far..I have faith in the man. He's apparently made a reasonable offer to a team that could lose this guy for nothing--now we'll see where it goes..The rest is up to Melo and Denver. It'd be nice if Melo went to DEN at some point and told them it's NY and only NY, either now or next off-season..I'm not convinced he'll ever do that however and apparently neither is Donnie. Hence the calculated trade offer w/o going overboard. No problem with what I'm hearing so far.
Moonangie
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8/20/2010  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/20/2010  12:24 PM
Chandler AND Gallo is going too far.

Don't underestimate Melo's desire to be in NYC. It's for real and he is one of those rare talents who actually has a bonafide reason to consider his long term legacy. He's not good enough to accomplish that "legacy thing" in a small market, the way Lebron would have been had he won it in Cleveland. That means Melo should only really consider NY, NJ or CHI as destinations. The Bulls aren't really in the running cap-wise, and the Nets would have to give up Lopez to have a shot at Melo. Orlando is WAY too close to Miami for Melo to want to bump shoulders with the Florida market on a regular basis. Florida just isn't big enough to have that many divas.

Only the Knicks offer the two things Melo most desires: The huge market to cement a legacy by winning it all AND the stud number two (i.e., Stat) to get it done. Not to mention these added enticements:

1. He gets to do it in the same division as LeSchmuck
2. He doesn't have the unreachable legacy issues that LBJ has in a desire to dethrone MJ and Kobe as the greatest ever
3. New York is his hometown and the Knicks are his childhood team

All signs are pointing to Melo landing in NY, either in a fair trade (i.e., Curry, Gallo and 2014 1st rounder) OR as a FA next summer. Melo has his eyes on the prize in a way Lebron just doesn't (i.e., the prize being a chance to win it all at The Garden). He's not going to fret about a season in Denver with disgruntled fans. Cleveland fans didn't actually get angry until Lebron left the Cavs. They were too concerned about pissing him off. Same thing could happen with Melo. But even if they start to hate him, he will know that his dream is just a season away and all but locked-in.
Finestrg
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8/20/2010  12:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/20/2010  12:47 PM
Moonangie wrote:Chandler AND Gallo is going too far.

Don't underestimate Melo's desire to be in NYC. It's for real and he is one of those rare talents who actually has a bonafide reason to consider his long term legacy. He's not good enough to accomplish that "legacy thing" in a small market, the way Lebron would have been had he won it in Cleveland. That means Melo should only really consider NY, NJ or CHI as destinations. The Bulls aren't really in the running cap-wise, and the Nets would have to give up Lopez to have a shot at Melo. Orlando is WAY too close to Miami for Melo to want to bump shoulders with the Florida market on a regular basis. Florida just isn't big enough to have that many divas.

Only the Knicks offer the two things Melo most desires: The huge market to cement a legacy by winning it all AND the stud number two (i.e., Stat) to get it done. Not to mention these added enticements:

1. He gets to do it in the same division as LeSchmuck
2. He doesn't have the unreachable legacy issues that LBJ has in a desire to dethrone MJ and Kobe as the greatest ever
3. New York is his hometown and the Knicks are his childhood team

All signs are pointing to Melo landing in NY, either in a fair trade (i.e., Curry, Gallo and 2014 1st rounder) OR as a FA next summer. Melo has his eyes on the prize in a way Lebron just doesn't (i.e., the prize being a chance to win it all at The Garden). He's not going to fret about a season in Denver with disgruntled fans. Cleveland fans didn't actually get angry until Lebron left the Cavs. They were too concerned about pissing him off. Same thing could happen with Melo. But even if they start to hate him, he will know that his dream is just a season away and all but locked-in.

I don't agree at all -- but you do make a good point about Jersey, soon to be Brooklyn..Add them to the list of competition along with Orlando, Portland etc., we could have down the road for Melo. Melo's from BROOKLYN, LA LA Vasquez is from BROOKLYN I believe..That's big..I think you're right -- they're definitely players or soon could be. This is all why I don't mind getting Melo now through reasonable trade...As long as we don't break the bank -- Gallo & Chandler isn't breaking the bank IMHO. I explained why above...Gallo, Randolph, Chandler, Fields, picks --- now that's too much....I said it before, I could go either way -- I'm OK with this squad as is for now (part of me thinks the logical move probably is giving it a little time to access this current group first and then see what we could use later....BUT...if you can get Carmelo Anthony for Gallo, Chandler and a pick..you do it and don't look back.
BRIGGS
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8/20/2010  1:00 PM
Rookie wrote:has anyone considered option 'B'......Melo wants more than the offered 3 years under this CBA? I wouldn't be surprised if in the end Melo does the anti Lebron and signs a 5-6 year max deal in Denver...for me the question is will Denver give up future flexibility under a new CBA and sign their franchise player to a longer term extension.....just another tea leave to consider

If he wants to come to NY--he's the kind of athlete who will make up *salary* with endorsements. I bet the 5mm in yearly salary he might lose out on will be 1/4-1/8 of his endorsement jump and he gets to play where he wants. Take LBJ and Bosh for example--I mean they wanted to leave their teams and they took less--now Bosh is on Entourage has increased marketing deals--be honest with you Melo needs NY more than NY needs Melo--this team is going to be good--unless we start filling the roster with 15 andy rautins and start trading away all of our horses for lesser players--this team is going to be darn good quickly. If Melo wants on board--hell just have to chill for one year like LBJ did. If I was Melo Id rather have gallo ar and chandler on this team right?

RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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8/20/2010  1:03 PM

My Concern is Melo is like Glenn Rice and big dog robinson. Guys that killed it for years then broke down early.

Melo at 27 is in his prime. Gallo is still a few years away from it.

Im tired of giving youth.

We don't even know what we have in AR. These two are off the table.

IM on the fence and leaning this way if the reality COULD be that Melo can be had in a year for nothing.

I take the risk and keep my cap open. Players can shake loose and we can be patient.

A team never does anything sustainable without patience.

Boston success was having a supporting cast around thier big three.

We would still only have a "Big Two".

To Give up assets outside of Chandler and Eddy AND picks AND max him would be a high price.

Getting him in a year and just MAXING him is palatable.

Its Dolans money and I can spend anyway I want!
Rookie
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8/21/2010  11:15 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Rookie wrote:has anyone considered option 'B'......Melo wants more than the offered 3 years under this CBA? I wouldn't be surprised if in the end Melo does the anti Lebron and signs a 5-6 year max deal in Denver...for me the question is will Denver give up future flexibility under a new CBA and sign their franchise player to a longer term extension.....just another tea leave to consider

If he wants to come to NY--he's the kind of athlete who will make up *salary* with endorsements. I bet the 5mm in yearly salary he might lose out on will be 1/4-1/8 of his endorsement jump and he gets to play where he wants. Take LBJ and Bosh for example--I mean they wanted to leave their teams and they took less--now Bosh is on Entourage has increased marketing deals--be honest with you Melo needs NY more than NY needs Melo--this team is going to be good--unless we start filling the roster with 15 andy rautins and start trading away all of our horses for lesser players--this team is going to be darn good quickly. If Melo wants on board--hell just have to chill for one year like LBJ did. If I was Melo Id rather have gallo ar and chandler on this team right?

Can't say I dissagree with the endorsements argument, but I think things are running on Denver's time clock right now. Their first order of business looks to be the hiring of a new GM and formulating a plan for the future of their team at which point we'll see if they will offer Carmelo 6 years in the 135M ballbark....something they really don't need to do until June. We'll see what happens but I really ddon't believe any rumors of the Knicks making any offers since Denver doesn't even have a GM. I do however believe that Anthony's camp is blowing smoke to push the issue to the forfront of Denver's agenda.

I also agree we don't need to part with any assets and hope we don't. If they shop Anthony in Feb, maybe we get into the conversation but I doubt we give all that much. Can't wait to see this new group play together and i'm definitely looking forward to tthe pre-season
loweyecue
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8/21/2010  11:46 AM
Have the Knicks really made a an offer of Gallo+Chandler+Curry for Melo? Not even sure if this has happened.
Again, Melo is a proven star in this league, percentagewise that is a good trade. Its actually close to being a no-brainer. But the trade would make me sad, Gallo is my favorite Knick after Spreewell, but I would still agree to it 10 times out of ten.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
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