Cosmic wrote:

tkf wrote:funny with all of the jordan Hill love.. when I was on here defending him and aruging with another poster about the Hill pick, there was very little support for Hill.. most seemed to want to play it safe and not defend Hill because they also were unsure of the pick.. Now the love for hill is hilarious.. LOL.. that is cool, but it is also why I said, lets not be so quick to call kids bust before they play a game... I do remember those who stood by hill and those who kept quiet.. just funny to see the outpouring of love now...

Honestly he's not that good and people are going way overboard with the love today. They must have watched a different game than I did. I saw him get murdered by Lee and even though Al shot like crap today he easily blew past Hill whenever he wanted to. I saw him drop a couple of passes with those little hands of his. He plays raw and clumsy and uncomfortable. Missed several gimmie layups ala Jeffries. He had a couple of nice little post ups where he dropped the ball in. But other than he didn't do anything special out there.

But hey if fans want to see a budding superstar and over dramatize 13pts and 4bds that's not up to me. I'm not going to do that though. He's a mediocre player and had little impact on the game.

really cosmic? I think hill is going to be a good player, and since our team is short on big men, it hurts watching him play in Houston now..

tkf wrote:

insulting and calling you every name in the book? yea.. ok.. and the point was not who we should have drafted , but you made Hill look like he was a bust and a complete mistake. I was arguing that we should see what kind of player Hill is before we pass judgment, so far I still maintain the same argument and Hill is looking like a player and you have been quiet as hell on the subject..

You have a very poor memory to go along with your poor arguments. You say you did not insult me and start calling me names? (Because I powned you so hard you had nothing left to do but call names...)

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=32966&page=7

tkf wrote:you think that was funny? kind of like the little fat kid that sits behind his computer eating ding dongs writing silly one liners.. my point is clear.. you have no point..you are a whiner, your act is old and your behavior is punkish... but that is cool.. you just proved what I thought all along... you are basing your arguement on hindsight, you don't like hill and that is fine, just admit it... the sad thing is, like a premature teenager you can't even wait long enough to bust your load.... the season is just 10 games in bro..

***

Let's look at your current poor argument skills: I haven't been "quiet as hell", I have not been posting on this board for weeks! - typical nonsense TKf "argument"! No basis in reality whatsoever...

Your other "argument" (I use this term loosely) about seeing what kind of player Hill is before we pass judgment? Typical TKF wishy-washy homer BS. Your opinion is no opinion at all. You just can't admit a mistake and it kills you that other people might point out what you are in denial of so you go nuts! TKF: "NO! DON'T YOU DARE SAY DRAFTING HILL OVER JENNINGS IS A MISTAKE. BECAUSE I CAN'T ADMIT IT YET!"

I made the argument that it was an obvious error to not draft Jennings and all your "argument" boiled down to: "wait and see" and "you are a punk!".

Is it obvious even to you now? That drafting Hill before Jennings was a mistake? If not, how many more seasons will it take? Have you admitted we are in a recession yet?!

Please enjoy your pownage sir.

oohah

Cosmic wrote:

tkf wrote:funny with all of the jordan Hill love.. when I was on here defending him and aruging with another poster about the Hill pick, there was very little support for Hill.. most seemed to want to play it safe and not defend Hill because they also were unsure of the pick.. Now the love for hill is hilarious.. LOL.. that is cool, but it is also why I said, lets not be so quick to call kids bust before they play a game... I do remember those who stood by hill and those who kept quiet.. just funny to see the outpouring of love now...

Honestly he's not that good and people are going way overboard with the love today. They must have watched a different game than I did. I saw him get murdered by Lee and even though Al shot like crap today he easily blew past Hill whenever he wanted to. I saw him drop a couple of passes with those little hands of his. He plays raw and clumsy and uncomfortable. Missed several gimmie layups ala Jeffries. He had a couple of nice little post ups where he dropped the ball in. But other than he didn't do anything special out there.

But hey if fans want to see a budding superstar and over dramatize 13pts and 4bds that's not up to me. I'm not going to do that though. He's a mediocre player and had little impact on the game.

you definitely were watching a different game then because the Rockets made both of their surges with Jordan Hill on the floor... they scored 45 pts in the 2nd quarter with Hill, Lowry, Battier & Budinger & made another late game run to take the lead & hold on for the win with Hill on the floor as well... u can say he made little impact on the game but the +/- stats say different... & sorry but i have no idea where "Al was blowing right by Hill whenever he wanted to" comes from... Al was completely out of control trying to penetrate into the lane all game long & either turned the ball over or committed an offensive foul (3 turnovers, 5 personal fouls & only 2 made shot attempts)... if he was blowing by Hill on every drive why wasn't he getting easier buckets?

we all know u don't like Jordan Hill so this is not surprising coming from you, but at least attempt to be objective... no, Jordan Hill didn't dominate but he didn't look bad either... the Rockets offense flowed nicely w/him out there on the floor, partly because he was providing some solid deterence in the paint against easy penetration which wasn't happening before he got into the game... i don't see anyone making him out to be a budding superstar on this thread yet you consistently derive those interpretations whenever someone has anything positive to say about this guy... people just think he deserved much more of a look this season & based on what we've seen from him since he was traded to Houston, he seems to have justified that line of thought... i'll tell u right now if this kid is given consistent 30+ a night right now he'd be putting up double figure points & at least 7 rebounds a game easy & that's playing as a rookie 22 year old who's still learning the NBA game... that might not be superstar but for any rookie player more than respectable production... from there on who knows what his upside is? could be just a serviceable starting 4/5 or could be something more... you have absolutely no way to justify jumping the boat on pronouncing this kid a bust the way you have since the draft, i'm sorry.

Also for the last time because: *I'm tired of the debate it's old now. *Hill is no longer a Knick. So the value of continuing this endless debate to me is pretty small.

For the record, I don't really care if Hill does well or not. If he does, so be it, I was wrong. If not, so be it, whatever I saw so far to make me not like him so far wasn't wrong.

I also don't keep score of people's opinions like some of you do....with the sole intent on hoping you are proven right so you can crow about it. I'm here to debate hoops not give a crap who was right or wrong in the end. That's some childish garbage right there.

If Hill turns out good I'm sure a few of you will be squealing with delight so you can hunt me down over it. Not talk hoops but look to call someone out. That's as childish as it can get.

If Hill turns out bad YOU can be sure I WON'T CARE who was on his bandwagon and will have no incentive to take anyone to task over their opinions. It doesn't bother me who is right or wrong.

Now, with that said the final time on Hill:

He was a raw rookie who didn't really deserve minutes ahead of the forward heavy veteran team we had. He eventually started playing and didn't do anything all that impressive. You can bet if he was still here he'd be getting about as much burn as he does in Houston right now.

He came into training camp in pretty bad shape, admitted as much, with a grin at that apparently unconcerned. Like it was no big. "Awww man yeah I'm like fat and like haha."

Early on he played worse than Randolph Morris and it doesn't take long to think this isn't a good player.

Rookies are rookies but good rookies show you something from the start. Douglas did. Gallo did even in that summer league game. They show you something. They may have a poor overall season but they show you something special.

What did Hill do? Hit an uncontested 18 footer. And some of you guys went crazy like we just found a future all-star center for the ages. Well, we didn't. Butler, Sweetney both showed far superior skills as raw rookies. Frye was 10x the player Hill was as a rookie. Those players showed promise albeit two of them aren't even in the league anymore. Hill showed me next to nothing yet you guys went absolutely nuts over any little thing he did. I saw nothing special.

What else did Hill do? Sat on the end of the bench laughing away during games. During warmups hardly participated was instead filmed laughing it up with whoever was near him sometimes not even holding a basketball.

During timeouts he was frequently not even in camera range and when he was he was shown yacking it up with someone or not even looking towards the huddle - while every other player made it a point to watch Mike diagram the next play even if they weren't even in uniform. Hill? Nope, didn't even care.

----> From that point on I didn't like this kid one bit and I think as a far I had good reason to based on what I watched. His attitude sucked. His conditioning was poor and he was unconcerned. Behind the scenes Toney Douglas was working hard as can be. Hill sat there fiddling with his dreads and nails. He is immature. His twitter and supposed banter with Mike shows he's juvenile.

Now, Hill's skills themselves:

Poor hands, he fumbles passes too often. More so than Nazr did and that drove us all insane didn't it? Well, Hill's got the same problem. You also don't correct that problem. That's what it is and will always be: Small hands and bad reaction to receiving a pass.

Offensively he has a nice little post up (not a traditional post up but a move in the post) where he can drop the ball in the hoop from about 3 or 4 feet away. Seems to be the pet move as of now. He has an okay jump shot but it's far from the automatic purity I've seen far too many claim it is. He blows layups as bad as Jared Jeffries and you know, again, that is an indicator that he is clumsy and has poor footwork. Maybe that is something that improves, maybe it doesn't, but right now it looks god awful.

Defensively: Where is this super defender I read about? Where is this high-motor player that supposedly if he were playing we'd been a tight defensive team? Why do people blast Mike for not playing "defenders like Hill" when Hill himself isn't even a defender right now?

The guy has five blocks as a Rocket. All in one game. That means in all the other games he had 0 blocks. He has 1 steal in all his games as a rocket. I've seen him get absolutely torched time and again left in his tracks somewhat similar to Lee's inability to move his feet the moment he sees his man move his feet to get around him. The reaction isn't there. That again is a problem a lot of players have and I will say most have a hard time ever correcting that if ever.

So now we have: Raw offensive player with a nice little pet move, an okay 18 footer, who absolutely blows at every other aspect of scoring. We have a supposed defensive player who plays poor defense.

This is the player I'm supposed to fall in love with and lament trading? Not today.

Now the Rockets game: He had 2 nice little dump ins, blew a bunch of layups. He did set 2 or 3 nice picks around the FT line - but that's not exactly screaming "SUPERSTAR, Did you see that PICK!? WHOA!!! AMAZING!". I mean, any player sets picks. But, they were still well done. Defensively he got EMBARASSED by David Lee. Absolutely EMBARASSED. And even though Al was way off that day he went around Hill like he was stuck in concrete each and every time. I think three in all.

So now you all know my reasoning as to why I didn't like Jordan Hill why he was here and don't really care that we traded him.

If he ends up decent so be it. But if we kept a mediocre rookie and it cost us our offseason then you would have seen an explosion over it.

So, now, it is what it is, I've said what I have to say. What you guys think of it - well, that's your opinions. And, I'm done talking about him, as it's pointless from here on out to me.