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Knicks to pick Stephen Curry with 8th pick?
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BRIGGS
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5/16/2009  5:16 PM
Posted by oohah:

Curry can be compared to Chris Jackson A.K.A. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf except not as good.

Chris Jackson averaged 30.2 points per game as a freshman and 27.8 as a sophomore in the SEC a much tougher league than Curry played in.

oohah

Chris Jackson was a pure 2 guard like Ben Gordon. The stuff that Bobby Knight said about Curry was BS--best passer ever--there are guys in Rucker Park who are better passers. That being said we gave Dantoni the money to coach the team and it's only fair that he has significant imput on the groceries. I like Curry--my complaint is can we get better value from 8 and can we buy a high additional pick? If the Knicks took Curry Holiday or Evans at 8 and were able to get pick 14 from the Suns and take Mullens--I would be satisfied. I think Derozan may be out considering we have Gallinari and Chandler. I would like them to really put those PGs together and see who shines--I think that Curry could have trouble with those guys physically.

I just do not see us winning games with David Lee as the number 1 big--hes too small and he cant protect the basket. I really think Mullens will end up as a much better player than shown for his one year in college and could thrive uptempo. You need a C to win big even if it takes development time
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nixluva
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5/16/2009  5:43 PM
Posted by oohah:

Curry can be compared to Chris Jackson A.K.A. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf except not as good.

Chris Jackson averaged 30.2 points per game as a freshman and 27.8 as a sophomore in the SEC a much tougher league than Curry played in.

oohah

Rauf had great shooting ability, but in the NBA I really never saw him as a serious floor leader. I think in our system he could've been a useful asset off the bench. On this team I believe Curry can be more. I really feel that a player like him could be a Nash type diamond in the rough. Under the coaching of MDA I think Curry will reach his fullest potential as did Nash. Just remember what Nash was before he got with MDA. NO ONE would ever have suggested that he could one day win a league MVP, much less TWO!

To be honest Curry isn't the only decent option for the Knicks in this guard heavy draft. MDA could likely get a lot done with a few of the other guards. Curry tho has a very close resemblance to the kind of player MDA seems to like. I think tho that it's the great shooting touch and passing ability combined with Curry's fearlessness and willingness to take the winning shot. Not many in this draft have the same ice water in their veins like he has. Think of how many games we lost as the ball was passed around like a HOT POTATO, just cuz guys didn't want that last shot or be the one to make the decision who should get the last shot.
Pharzeone
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5/16/2009  6:35 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Ben Gordon was a superior athlete. He had NBA dunk competition level hops at Uconn along with speed and power. He's also really a pure 2 guard.

Showing the small picture of Curry, undated and in College, and Gordon, as a Bull, is like one of those cheesy before and after ads you see in the papers and online- they are very deceptive. I have no doubt that Gordon is, and was stronger than Curry, but these pictures prove nothing, and you know it.

My understanding is that Gordon did not have the same superstud upperbody at UConn- is that true??


This is a PG dominated draft, and you can find major flaws in every possible pick, including fan favorites such a Griffin, Rubio, and Thabeet.

Unless it turns out that the Knicks were totally in love with Curry, and for some reason consider him to be the only PG in the draft for them, they will be choosing a PG in the draft this year, even if Curry is picked before they draft.

I think that MDA has come to see Duhon as a serviceable backup PG, but nothing more. He is sporadic on offense, porous on D, and had those moments of PG ineptitude (turnovers) which must have driven MDA crazy as he looked on. As for Nate, everyone must realize how MDA looks at him as a player- he can't stand him as a PG, and probably as a player.

We have no pick next year and there are not PGs in, or near, their prime who MDA might want coming out in the next year or two, are there?

We probably want Rubio or Curry, and to be honest, the Knicks might even see Curry as a superior all-around player to Rubio at this point.

I am sure that they Knicks will take serious looks at Holiday, Lawson, and Flynn, as well as Jennings. I would pay the price of admission to see those 4 along with Curry and Evans, playing against each other.

They guy who might sneak into our plan, if he shows an improved jumper, is Holiday. Only 18, with good size, PG court sense, the ability to use either hand, and defensive ability, I have to think that this guy can move up big time if he impresses with his shot.

Yeah, we need someone to play C, but this draft is mana from heaven for a former PG turned head coach. MDA will make this pick- have no doubt about it, if we choose a PG, and he will have to live or die with his decision.

My own prediction- we pick up Carlos Cabezas from Spain, and draft Curry. We get something for Nate, and let Curry be a backup PG and SG. In 2010, we let Duhon go, or demote him to 3rd string PG, and split the PG time between Cabezas and Curry.



This is a PG draft and we have a team coached by a former PG which needs a PG.

Enough said.

No it's not true and that's why I posted pictures of Gordon 2004 summer league game right after he was drafted by the Bulls. There is no comparison between Gordon and Curry physical makeups. Curry's physique resembles that of a small version of Reggie Miller and he is on the weak side of that. He is a perimeter player and will be tough for him to fight through picks. If you take him you got to realize that he will get burnt on the defensive end and deal with it. He is Luther Head with a NBA player last name. He isn't Gordon, Williams, Paul or Nash. All you have to do is watch Davidson games and you will see the issues he will face in the NBA.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
oohah
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5/16/2009  7:03 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Rauf had great shooting ability, but in the NBA I really never saw him as a serious floor leader. I think in our system he could've been a useful asset off the bench. On this team I believe Curry can be more. I really feel that a player like him could be a Nash type diamond in the rough. Under the coaching of MDA I think Curry will reach his fullest potential as did Nash. Just remember what Nash was before he got with MDA. NO ONE would ever have suggested that he could one day win a league MVP, much less TWO!

To be honest Curry isn't the only decent option for the Knicks in this guard heavy draft. MDA could likely get a lot done with a few of the other guards. Curry tho has a very close resemblance to the kind of player MDA seems to like. I think tho that it's the great shooting touch and passing ability combined with Curry's fearlessness and willingness to take the winning shot. Not many in this draft have the same ice water in their veins like he has. Think of how many games we lost as the ball was passed around like a HOT POTATO, just cuz guys didn't want that last shot or be the one to make the decision who should get the last shot.

In college Nash was a pure point guard.. I see Curry's game as being muc more similar to Rauf's in that his main ability is shooting and scoring. But Rauf was better at that main skill. Curry may be more of a playmaker, but that isn't what is going to earn his pay in the NBA. Another similar player is Jason Terry, except again, Terry was doing his thing against a much higher level of competition.

I always worry about tweeners. If we take a flier on Curry, I would prefer to see it happen lower in the first round.

I am pinning all my hopes and prayers on Thabeet.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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5/16/2009  7:04 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


Chris Jackson was a pure 2 guard like Ben Gordon. The stuff that Bobby Knight said about Curry was BS--best passer ever--there are guys in Rucker Park who are better passers. That being said we gave Dantoni the money to coach the team and it's only fair that he has significant imput on the groceries. I like Curry--my complaint is can we get better value from 8 and can we buy a high additional pick? If the Knicks took Curry Holiday or Evans at 8 and were able to get pick 14 from the Suns and take Mullens--I would be satisfied. I think Derozan may be out considering we have Gallinari and Chandler. I would like them to really put those PGs together and see who shines--I think that Curry could have trouble with those guys physically.

I just do not see us winning games with David Lee as the number 1 big--hes too small and he cant protect the basket. I really think Mullens will end up as a much better player than shown for his one year in college and could thrive uptempo. You need a C to win big even if it takes development time

Taking players for the way they fit into a system is a choice for teams much better than the Knicks.

3 Words: "Best Player Available".

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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5/16/2009  7:05 PM
Posted by Paladin55:

Showing the small picture of Curry, undated and in College, and Gordon, as a Bull, is like one of those cheesy before and after ads you see in the papers and online- they are very deceptive. I have no doubt that Gordon is, and was stronger than Curry, but these pictures prove nothing, and you know it.

Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by nyk4ever:

TMS, if you really wanna be fair and compare builds, atleast use pictures of both players when they were in college. For those who don't remember, Ben Gordon was the dude who wore a T-SHIRT under his jersey in college.

Two of my best-friends went to Uconn in the Okafor, Ben Gordon days so I was there plenty and I saw Ben Gordon MANY times on campus and he was nowhere near as strong back then, as you show him in that picture.


2004 Summer League


to Paladin55... OK, i'll concede it wasn't a fair comparison posting present day Gordon pics w/Curry as a junior in college... but Pharzeone already responded by posting Gordon's pic as a rook... u seriously don't see a bit of difference there in their builds? ur kidding urself if u think Curry will ever become as jacked as Gordon & be able to withstand the contact driving to the lane on a regular basis & get to the FT line that Gordon is built to do, even w/a few years to build up his physique...

personally i don't see Curry getting any proportionately bigger than his dad was in his playing days at best.



[Edited by - TMS on 05-16-2009 4:06 PM]
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oohah
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5/16/2009  7:08 PM
Posted by TMS:



personally i don't see Curry getting any proportionately bigger than his dad was in his playing days at best.


Would you prefer he develops like Eddy Curry?

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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5/16/2009  7:15 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by TMS:



personally i don't see Curry getting any proportionately bigger than his dad was in his playing days at best.


Would you prefer he develops like Eddy Curry?

oohah

he'd have to eat a lotta curry to develop like Eddy.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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5/16/2009  7:27 PM
Posted by TMS:



he'd have to eat a lotta curry to develop like Eddy.

By the way, you're right that Gordon had a much more developed physique than Curry as a college player, This is another one of those: "Are we really discussing this?" topics. Gordon has and has always had a very developed musculature. Despite that he still gets beat up at the NBA level.

What does that mean to Curry? I don't know for sure, but I bet he won't be able to go to the rack the way Gordon does.

Curry reeks of "outside shooting specialist" to me. Just like his Pappy. Except shorter.

oohah





[Edited by - oohah on 16-05-2009 7:28 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
VDesai
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5/16/2009  8:00 PM
The whole reason I initially brought up Gordon is because he was a contrast to Curry because he was so much more physically developed. Thats why I said that if Curry is a 2, I don't see him even reaching a Ben Gordon level b/c physically he's not there. He's too undersized to be more than a 6th man there.

That being said, a 10 year, top NBA 6th man in the vein of his father Dell would be a good outcome from a very weak draft IMO with the 8th pick. I don't see a lot of players picked behind that having a better career. Those that could carry a big bust risk IMO.

If Curry is to end up being a star it will be at the PG position. Which is a very big projection at this point. He did spend all last year at PG, but it was his first year at the position, and even with the 6 assists and the Bobby Knight complement i have questions. Basically Curry had the ball in his hands more than 95% of the time. Whether he was scoring or passing- he was depended on doing both for lack of a better option in either case. In the NBA he will not be the top dog and will have to prove that he truly is a floor general that can setup his teammates. I don't see him as a "wow" level ball handler, a guy who dictates the pace or a guy that is just a killer passer - yet. I don't get why so many are penciling him in as the next Nash. Nash took years to become Nash, and the way he plays the game is not easily duplicated. He plays at a speed two notches above most other players, doesn't pick up his dribble, knows where everything is happening on the court and never loses his head. A 1 year PG won't come into the league with those instincs. Maybe he can develop them.

Can he a be a Mo Williams, or a Bibby...players who were less dynamic, but incredibly steady and clutch? Maybe. I think he's smart. I think he makes good decisions. Can he a Sam Cassell? That's taking those other two guys and adding top leadership and balls. I think this road could be achieved by Curry if we pair him up with Lebron at some point.

[Edited by - vdesai on 05-16-2009 8:00 PM]
BRIGGS
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5/16/2009  8:02 PM
Is there anyone else who likes Mullens? A guy who is 7-1 260 who could thrive in uptempo--block shots give us the length at C we have missed so badly. Cant people see through the vines here?
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TMS
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5/16/2009  8:11 PM
the only concerns i have about Curry as a PG is because i don't think he's got the quickness or the explosion to get by NBA defenders on the perimeter at regularity, & let me paraphrase that by saying i'm considering his possible upside to be a star at that position... that will turn him into another shooting PG, & Mike Bibby is an optimistic projection at best IMHO, much less Sam Cassell (tho i do think Curry's got some leadership potential in him)... w/a #8 or better lottery pick i really wanna go after star potential players here, not just someone who can possibly turn out to be a topnotch 6th man... i mean come on, if u wanna draft a bench guy you can get those later in the 1st round... i wanna swing for the fences w/this pick, & if we miss we miss... if ur not crazy about any of the prospects at 8 like Derozan or Jennings, then trade down & maximize value... pick up a high upside player like Mullens later in the 1st round & take a very good shooter w/legitimate NBA size like Dionte Christmas w/another later round pick... or package the pick w/Lee &/or Nate to get a blockbuster type trade going... swing for the fences or maximize value... don't play it safe... playing it safe has gotten this franchise absolutely nowhere the past several years.
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TMS
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5/16/2009  8:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Is there anyone else who likes Mullens? A guy who is 7-1 260 who could thrive in uptempo--block shots give us the length at C we have missed so badly. Cant people see through the vines here?

i like him, but as a later round pick, definitely not at #8
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VDesai
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5/16/2009  8:21 PM
Posted by TMS:

the only concerns i have about Curry as a PG is because i don't think he's got the quickness or the explosion to get by NBA defenders on the perimeter at regularity, & let me paraphrase that by saying i'm considering his possible upside to be a star at that position... that will turn him into another shooting PG, & Mike Bibby is an optimistic projection at best IMHO, much less Sam Cassell (tho i do think Curry's got some leadership potential in him)... w/a #8 or better lottery pick i really wanna go after star potential players here, not just someone who can possibly turn out to be a topnotch 6th man... i mean come on, if u wanna draft a bench guy you can get those later in the 1st round... i wanna swing for the fences w/this pick, & if we miss we miss... if ur not crazy about any of the prospects at 8 like Derozan or Jennings, then trade down & maximize value... pick up a high upside player like Mullens later in the 1st round & take a very good shooter w/legitimate NBA size like Dionte Christmas w/another later round pick... or package the pick w/Lee &/or Nate to get a blockbuster type trade going... swing for the fences or maximize value... don't play it safe... playing it safe has gotten this franchise absolutely nowhere the past several years.

I don't mind trading down and getting more picks- but the trade down/trade up is not as feasible in the NBA draft when you generally have two picks to work with and have to trade within the confines of the cap. Minnesota would seem to be the target.
oohah
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5/16/2009  9:51 PM
With our luck Thabeet will be there for the taking but the Knicks won't draft him because he doesn't "fit the system".

oohah

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5/16/2009  9:54 PM
Posted by oohah:

With our luck Thabeet will be there for the taking but the Knicks won't draft him because he doesn't "fit the system".

oohah

You are really overrating Thabeet. Thabeet lumbers on the court. He is very slow, has 0 offensive game, is a very poor man to man defender and likely will be fouling out as quickly as you can say Saer Sene. This is a very weak draft. Thabeet would be in the late lottery, mid-first round if this had been a stronger draft. He's a project at best and it would be a big risk to take him this high. I'm not high on Curry either but he can do some things on the court. Thabeet just looks awkward and his stats look so good because he was dominating most people who were 4-5 inches shorter than him.
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nixluva
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5/16/2009  11:13 PM
Who cares if Curry is muscular or not? BB is not about physical strength and especially now with the rules the way they are. Skinny guys with skill are KILLING big strong guys on the perimeter cuz they can't touch them anymore. Besides the kid would be brought in for his offensive skills just like Nash who also isn't a physical specimen nor very strong on D. Tell my why that really matters when MOST of the PG's in the NBA are not great defensively and almost no PG can lock down another top PG by himself anyway.

You all know that our offense is predicated on a PG who can be a threat to score or make the pass and those two things are the most important skills. Despite Curry only running the point for one year, he's already better than Nate in that department and i'd say he can't be any worse than Rondo was when he took over the starting role at PG. Don't tell me that Curry can't succeed in the PG role for this team.
TMS
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5/16/2009  11:15 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Who cares if Curry is muscular or not? BB is not about physical strength and especially now with the rules the way they are. Skinny guys with skill are KILLING big strong guys on the perimeter cuz they can't touch them anymore. Besides the kid would be brought in for his offensive skills just like Nash who also isn't a physical specimen nor very strong on D. Tell my why that really matters when MOST of the PG's in the NBA are not great defensively and almost no PG can lock down another top PG by himself anyway.

You all know that our offense is predicated on a PG who can be a threat to score or make the pass and those two things are the most important skills. Despite Curry only running the point for one year, he's already better than Nate in that department and i'd say he can't be any worse than Rondo was when he took over the starting role at PG. Don't tell me that Curry can't succeed in the PG role for this team.

yeah well the comparisons were already brought up w/Gordon so i'm pointing out that it's a bad comparison to make... being muscular isn't the issue being discussed as much as is his future ability to be able to withstand the wear & tear of playing the SG position at a star calibre level in the pros, especially w/him being undersized... when u consider a guy like Gordon who's built like a Mack truck is relegated to being a 6th man in the NBA, how much success can we project Curry to have in a similar position? if he's gonna be a PG then why even bother w/the Gordon comparisons to begin with is my point... they're nothing alike.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-16-2009 8:22 PM]
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oohah
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5/16/2009  11:34 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by oohah:

With our luck Thabeet will be there for the taking but the Knicks won't draft him because he doesn't "fit the system".

oohah

You are really overrating Thabeet. Thabeet lumbers on the court. He is very slow, has 0 offensive game, is a very poor man to man defender and likely will be fouling out as quickly as you can say Saer Sene. This is a very weak draft. Thabeet would be in the late lottery, mid-first round if this had been a stronger draft. He's a project at best and it would be a big risk to take him this high. I'm not high on Curry either but he can do some things on the court. Thabeet just looks awkward and his stats look so good because he was dominating most people who were 4-5 inches shorter than him.

Nah dude you're wrong. Thabeet is raw but he is loaded with potential, bigger, taller, and far more athletic than Sene.

Curry can do some things on the court but so could Troy Bell, yet another tweener like Curry, except Bell played in a tougher conference and was better, yet still couldn't stick or distinguish himself at the NBA level.

Half the battle at the pro level is having the physical gifts to hang. That is why you see so many college teams where some big 7 foot guy is not the star but when it comes to NBA time, the star guards have short careers and the big guy plays for 10 years: Andrew DeClerq, Greg Osterfag, the list goes on. But Thabeet is not some big schlub, you can't teach a guy to be 7 foot 3 and coordinated. But you can teach that guy to be a damn good player if he has the desire.

Okay, so you don't like Thabeet (coocoo!) and you don't particularly care for Curry, who do you want?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 16-05-2009 11:35 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nixluva
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5/16/2009  11:34 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nixluva:

Who cares if Curry is muscular or not? BB is not about physical strength and especially now with the rules the way they are. Skinny guys with skill are KILLING big strong guys on the perimeter cuz they can't touch them anymore. Besides the kid would be brought in for his offensive skills just like Nash who also isn't a physical specimen nor very strong on D. Tell my why that really matters when MOST of the PG's in the NBA are not great defensively and almost no PG can lock down another top PG by himself anyway.

You all know that our offense is predicated on a PG who can be a threat to score or make the pass and those two things are the most important skills. Despite Curry only running the point for one year, he's already better than Nate in that department and i'd say he can't be any worse than Rondo was when he took over the starting role at PG. Don't tell me that Curry can't succeed in the PG role for this team.

yeah well the comparisons were already brought up w/Gordon so i'm pointing out that it's a bad comparison to make.

I'm not saying you're wrong, cuz you're not, just that it's really not a factor in terms of whether or not Curry would be a good pick for this team as a PG.

I think others who are against it don't realize what Curry has in terms of natural talent. He's got the eyes of an Eagle and that translates into making great decisions and being able to shoot quickly and with a high degree of accuracy. He seems to be able to see the whole court too, which is another thing you want to see in a PG. Just cuz he's been a SG mostly doesn't mean that he doesn't have the natural talents to be a PG. I think he actually does have the ability to play the position.

Curry passes like he shoots, very accurately and somewhat like a QB, he judges distance and speed very well and anticipates where the ball needs to be. Those natural skills can be honed and developed by a great coach like MDA.
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