Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by BRIGGS:


Mcgee will not last past 12. Also I believe Mcgee's best style of play-although he is a very good athlete for his size--is the standard convetional low post tradional 5 man. With a standing reach of 9.65 with good ballhandling skills a nice 12 footer once a team gets this guy trained in the post--he will be a monster to contain. He is what Nate Robinson said--the big man who can go up and get it above everyone else. He's a two year project like Bynum--but his reward could be elite C material. Since hiring Dantoni I dont think it would be a good pick although I think they need to view him in 2-3 workouts before the draft. If we were playing traditional halcourt basketball--he would be number 1 on my list and I think hes the 4th best prospect in the draft no matter what.

I just figured I'd post this for you Briggs...

Seven-footer JaVale McGee of Nevada impressed the Suns in a workout over the weekend and has become a possible lottery pick.
"He can literally be as good as he wants to be," Suns VP of basketball operations David Griffin said. "He's the kind of guy that excites you when you walk into a gym and say, 'Oh my, did you see that?' Yeah, (drafting him) would be a leap of faith, but Amaré (Stoudemire) was a leap of faith too, and sometimes you have to take some chances." The Suns have the 15th pick this year, courtesy of the Hawks.

I agree with everything he said. I could care less about what Knicks management and their channing Frye approach or what any poster says--the guy has undeniable talents for a 7 footer with franchise level potential. Now who has the vision to take him?

WOW isn't this the same GM who said he thinks pick 15 could potentially be just as good as pick 5? Isn't pick 15 eerily close to pick 16?

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by BRIGGS:


Mcgee will not last past 12. Also I believe Mcgee's best style of play-although he is a very good athlete for his size--is the standard convetional low post tradional 5 man. With a standing reach of 9.65 with good ballhandling skills a nice 12 footer once a team gets this guy trained in the post--he will be a monster to contain. He is what Nate Robinson said--the big man who can go up and get it above everyone else. He's a two year project like Bynum--but his reward could be elite C material. Since hiring Dantoni I dont think it would be a good pick although I think they need to view him in 2-3 workouts before the draft. If we were playing traditional halcourt basketball--he would be number 1 on my list and I think hes the 4th best prospect in the draft no matter what.

I just figured I'd post this for you Briggs...

Seven-footer JaVale McGee of Nevada impressed the Suns in a workout over the weekend and has become a possible lottery pick.
"He can literally be as good as he wants to be," Suns VP of basketball operations David Griffin said. "He's the kind of guy that excites you when you walk into a gym and say, 'Oh my, did you see that?' Yeah, (drafting him) would be a leap of faith, but Amaré (Stoudemire) was a leap of faith too, and sometimes you have to take some chances." The Suns have the 15th pick this year, courtesy of the Hawks.

I agree with everything he said. I could care less about what Knicks management and their channing Frye approach or what any poster says--the guy has undeniable talents for a 7 footer with franchise level potential. Now who has the vision to take him?

WOW isn't this the same GM who said he thinks pick 15 could potentially be just as good as pick 5? Isn't pick 15 eerily close to pick 16?

I get my choice of player at 6--I dont think the draft goes down to 16 in the second tier --this conversatiuon is going nowhere--you can have your Lebron pipe dream and your miracle pull from the second round at 16. Id rather take a top talent at 6 and see if I can work a 13 off of Portland..

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Boston traded #7(Foye), Lafrentz, Dickau to for Telfair(#13pick), Ratliff expiring contract, a 2nd rd pick.

This is not a comparable trade or situation to us & philly. First of all Lafrentz was not a 26 yr old 20pt 10 rebound guy at the time. Lafrentz was an over the hill washed up player who provided Boston minimal production but a big contract. He averaged 7.8pts 5rebs. Portland didn't trade for Lafrentz in order to fill any need or provide them with any type of extra boost. They only expected to eat his contract and lack of production in order to get the #7 pick.

NEW YORK -- The Boston Celtics acquired second-year Portland Trail Blazers point guard Sebastian Telfair, center Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round pick for the No. 7 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft, Randy Foye, as well as forward Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau.

Boston has been searching for a true point guard and wasn't overwhelmed by the choices that it may have at No. 7. The Celtics worked out Connecticut's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo and Villanova's Randy Foye on Monday. All three could be available at No. 7. But the Celtics brass decided that Telfair, two years into the league, was better suited for the Celtics' system at this juncture in his career.

Second Ainge felt that Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. So it wasn't even like they were trading down. And even if you do consider it trading down. They basically traded down to #13 or 7 spots since thats where Telfair was draft 2yrs prior and unloaded *dead weight* for a shorter contract.

I don't get the Houston agruement between you two guys either. Shane Battier was the #5 pick in the draft 5yrs prior. That doesn't count as trading down. Battier was also a proven producer, defender and all around player. That doesn't equate to the #16th pick.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Boston traded #7(Foye), Lafrentz, Dickau to for Telfair(#13pick), Ratliff expiring contract, a 2nd rd pick.

This is not a comparable trade or situation to us & philly. First of all Lafrentz was not a 26 yr old 20pt 10 rebound guy at the time. Lafrentz was an over the hill washed up player who provided Boston minimal production but a big contract. He averaged 7.8pts 5rebs. Portland didn't trade for Lafrentz in order to fill any need or provide them with any type of extra boost. They only expected to eat his contract and lack of production in order to get the #7 pick.

NEW YORK -- The Boston Celtics acquired second-year Portland Trail Blazers point guard Sebastian Telfair, center Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round pick for the No. 7 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft, Randy Foye, as well as forward Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau.

Boston has been searching for a true point guard and wasn't overwhelmed by the choices that it may have at No. 7. The Celtics worked out Connecticut's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo and Villanova's Randy Foye on Monday. All three could be available at No. 7. But the Celtics brass decided that Telfair, two years into the league, was better suited for the Celtics' system at this juncture in his career.

Second Ainge felt that Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. So it wasn't even like they were trading down. And even if you do consider it trading down. They basically traded down to #13 or 7 spots since thats where Telfair was draft 2yrs prior and unloaded *dead weight* for a shorter contract.

I don't get the Houston agruement between you two guys either. Shane Battier was the #5 pick in the draft 5yrs prior. That doesn't count as trading down. Battier was also a proven producer, defender and all around player. That doesn't equate to the #16th pick.

You can't bring up past pick spots for players. If that's the case WTF did our very own fans support trading Frye(pick 8 2005) and Francis(pick 2 1999) for Zach Randolph(pick 19 2001) Fred Jones(pick 14 2002) Dan Dickau(pick 28 2002)?

Reguardless of that. Ainge felt Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. Battier held way more value that the #16th pick. There for you can't count either of those trades as trading down 10 spots as we would be doing in this deal.

Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]Posted by TrueBlue:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:


Philly(pick 16)
Lee(pick 30)
Nate(pick 21)
Chandler(pick 23)
Balkman(pick 20)
Mardy(pick 29)
Morris(free first round draft pick)

Now all we'd have to do is trade any or all combination of players such as Q, Jeffries, Crawford, Malik, Steph, and Curry into a couple more picks between 12-40. I'd imagine we couldn't trade them all, so some players would remain but this would be the premise to exercise the plan.

Why in the world do you want to trade down so far? Look at that list--no stars. Tell me when were Paul Pierce Ray Allen and KG picked? Most stars in the league were a top 10 pick or wouldve been if they had done 1 year of school. So why do we want a lesser talent--what exactly am I getting out of it? I think it is very clear that the talent level has a serious drop off after 12-13. Take Zach Randolph out of the equation--forget him for a second--do you still want to trade down?

Briggs you've yet to clearly prove pick 6 is going to be clearly better than pick 16. Just a bunch of because Briggs said so bull crap from you.


I think this draft clearly takes a turn around 12-13 or so. You cant answer the direct question--take Zach out of the equation--do you want to still trade down as you preference that low? And where exactly were KG Ray Allen and Paul Pierce picked?

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Boston traded #7(Foye), Lafrentz, Dickau to for Telfair(#13pick), Ratliff expiring contract, a 2nd rd pick.

This is not a comparable trade or situation to us & philly. First of all Lafrentz was not a 26 yr old 20pt 10 rebound guy at the time. Lafrentz was an over the hill washed up player who provided Boston minimal production but a big contract. He averaged 7.8pts 5rebs. Portland didn't trade for Lafrentz in order to fill any need or provide them with any type of extra boost. They only expected to eat his contract and lack of production in order to get the #7 pick.

NEW YORK -- The Boston Celtics acquired second-year Portland Trail Blazers point guard Sebastian Telfair, center Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round pick for the No. 7 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft, Randy Foye, as well as forward Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau.

Boston has been searching for a true point guard and wasn't overwhelmed by the choices that it may have at No. 7. The Celtics worked out Connecticut's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo and Villanova's Randy Foye on Monday. All three could be available at No. 7. But the Celtics brass decided that Telfair, two years into the league, was better suited for the Celtics' system at this juncture in his career.

Second Ainge felt that Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. So it wasn't even like they were trading down. And even if you do consider it trading down. They basically traded down to #13 or 7 spots since thats where Telfair was draft 2yrs prior and unloaded *dead weight* for a shorter contract.

I don't get the Houston agruement between you two guys either. Shane Battier was the #5 pick in the draft 5yrs prior. That doesn't count as trading down. Battier was also a proven producer, defender and all around player. That doesn't equate to the #16th pick.

You can't bring up past pick spots for players. If that's the case WTF did our very own fans support trading Frye(pick 8 2005) and Francis(pick 2 1999) for Zach Randolph(pick 19 2001) Fred Jones(pick 14 2002) Dan Dickau(pick 28 2002)?

Reguardless of that. Ainge felt Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. Battier held way more value that the #16th pick. There for you can't count either of those trades as trading down 10 spots as we would be doing in this deal.

Ainge said whatever to make himself and his fan base feel better for trading for Telfair. It doesn't matter, it's about what those teams gave up pick wise which were very high. An Battier's stock wasn't that high because supposedly everyone thought the Rockets got bent and porked the day they made the trade. Even to this day many don't understand why they made the trade.

Thats speculation on your part. The fact is he said what he said. Boston saved 13mil by swapping Lafrentz for Ratliff. Do you believe if Foye or Williams or Rondo blew him away he would move that pick in order to save 13mil? Do you really believe that they gave away the #7pick feeling Telfair was just a throw in in order to save 13mil?

It wasn't about Battiers stock more so then Gay's potential. Again they landed the #6 lottery pick for Battier thats a fact. I will also speculate that Memphis wouldn't have settled for anything less then a top 10 pick. Houston also had a franchise player in Yao Ming & a dominant scorer in Tracy Mcgrady. They weren't looking for potential as much as they were looking for substance.

All im saying is if we were to give up the #6 pick then Philly needs to give up a another draft pick. Randolph isn't dead weight like Lafrentz we can't go into the deal treating him as such.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by joec32033:

Houston never got worse sorry no matter how you slice it and Memphis never improved at all even when Gasol and Gay were playing along with their other lottery talent.

Gay was a ROOKIE!! They only played together 2 years and played under 2 different coaches!! The 2nd year he blossomed into a 20 point scorer!!

As fas as what Boston had in the fold well we don't have too much time to build assets to go after Lebron to get under the cap and have a chance to acquire a player such as him or other premium talent but it's worth a shot. Heck if we fail we'll just be in the lottery come 2011 we ain't going anywhere anyway even with pick 6 in the fold.

I agree it would be nice to get LeBron and it would be awesome to get him but building the team around that scenario is just plain crazy. Build around what you can control with the flexibility to do whatever you can when you need to. LeBron isn't coming to a team that has no players on it. If nothing else the draft is a great place to get talented players on the cheap. Look at the money these rookies make in their first 4 years. It's relative pennies. The best way to be salary flexible is to use the draft and draft well to get some cheap talent. I mean damn Chris Paul makes less than Jamal Crawford until 2010.

I don't give a F what Gay blossomed into show me how Houston suffered? Houston switched up coaches and got better while enduring a major injury to a Franchise player.

Why is DW talking about having cap flexibility to go after a FA such as Lebron? Why did D'Antoni say he could invision Lebron playing the 4 in his system if it's such a pipe dream? Look I agree it's going to be very difficult to land Lebron but unless we unload salary and generally unloading bad contracts comes with a price, we'll have zero shot at Lebron or any other premium talent for the matter.

You just need a solid plan.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-09-2008 12:10 PM]

You can't tell me Houston doesn't wish it could go back and redo that trade. But that is neither here nor there. We can agree to disagree on that.

Regarding having a solid plan, I agree with that. But I don't think a "solid" plan is focusing on a guy that is not currently on your team 2 years down the road.

I personally don't think the plan is LeBron or bust. I think Walsh is way to smart for that.
Imo, the plan is to put a solid team together with the cap flexibility to either sign LeBron outright or try to make a Garnett-like trade/sign-and-trade to obtain him. I really believe this is a much more prudent, efficient, and just plain better plan.

I said several times myself it isn't Lebron or bust it's a shot at Lebron or other premium talent or flexibility to move forward from that point.

And moving Zach right now while paying a premium(the #6) when we can move him next year, even if we do better by attaching say the 13 or 14 pick(or no pick at all because he will have a year less on his contract) while still gaining the same cap flexibility in the same time frame is the more prudent move how?

Posted by joec32033:

And moving Zach right now while paying a premium(the #6) when we can move him next year, even if we do better by attaching say the 13 or 14 pick(or no pick at all because he will have a year less on his contract) while still gaining the same cap flexibility in the same time frame is the more prudent move how?

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Boston traded #7(Foye), Lafrentz, Dickau to for Telfair(#13pick), Ratliff expiring contract, a 2nd rd pick.

This is not a comparable trade or situation to us & philly. First of all Lafrentz was not a 26 yr old 20pt 10 rebound guy at the time. Lafrentz was an over the hill washed up player who provided Boston minimal production but a big contract. He averaged 7.8pts 5rebs. Portland didn't trade for Lafrentz in order to fill any need or provide them with any type of extra boost. They only expected to eat his contract and lack of production in order to get the #7 pick.

NEW YORK -- The Boston Celtics acquired second-year Portland Trail Blazers point guard Sebastian Telfair, center Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round pick for the No. 7 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft, Randy Foye, as well as forward Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau.

Boston has been searching for a true point guard and wasn't overwhelmed by the choices that it may have at No. 7. The Celtics worked out Connecticut's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo and Villanova's Randy Foye on Monday. All three could be available at No. 7. But the Celtics brass decided that Telfair, two years into the league, was better suited for the Celtics' system at this juncture in his career.

Second Ainge felt that Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. So it wasn't even like they were trading down. And even if you do consider it trading down. They basically traded down to #13 or 7 spots since thats where Telfair was draft 2yrs prior and unloaded *dead weight* for a shorter contract.

I don't get the Houston agruement between you two guys either. Shane Battier was the #5 pick in the draft 5yrs prior. That doesn't count as trading down. Battier was also a proven producer, defender and all around player. That doesn't equate to the #16th pick.

You can't bring up past pick spots for players. If that's the case WTF did our very own fans support trading Frye(pick 8 2005) and Francis(pick 2 1999) for Zach Randolph(pick 19 2001) Fred Jones(pick 14 2002) Dan Dickau(pick 28 2002)?

Reguardless of that. Ainge felt Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. Battier held way more value that the #16th pick. There for you can't count either of those trades as trading down 10 spots as we would be doing in this deal.

Ainge said whatever to make himself and his fan base feel better for trading for Telfair. It doesn't matter, it's about what those teams gave up pick wise which were very high. An Battier's stock wasn't that high because supposedly everyone thought the Rockets got bent and porked the day they made the trade. Even to this day many don't understand why they made the trade.

Thats speculation on your part. The fact is he said what he said. Boston saved 13mil by swapping Lafrentz for Ratliff. Do you believe if Foye or Williams or Rondo blew him away he would move that pick in order to save 13mil? Do you really believe that they gave away the #7pick feeling Telfair was just a throw in in order to save 13mil?

It wasn't about Battiers stock more so then Gay's potential. Again they landed the #6 lottery pick for Battier thats a fact. I will also speculate that Memphis wouldn't have settled for anything less then a top 10 pick. Houston also had a franchise player in Yao Ming & a dominant scorer in Tracy Mcgrady. They weren't looking for potential as much as they were looking for substance.

All im saying is if we were to give up the #6 pick then Philly needs to give up a another draft pick. Randolph isn't dead weight like Lafrentz we can't go into the deal treating him as such.

Portland treated him as deadweight and were a playoff team for half a season. Zach did nothing to increase his value from that trade. In my examples I'm showing how teams gave up lottery picks and didn't get picks back but didn't suffer. They got something of value but nothing equal in terms of picks according to the pick they gave up. Philly doesn't have to give anything else because it's a fair trade. Basically from the latest posts if our roster was different the trade is reasonable but since we don't have no K.G. or franchise player then the trade isn't fair. That logic doesn't make sense.

Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.