[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT: Taking down Obama with the race card
Forum Index  ›  Off-Topic Forum
Page 12 of 18 « First‹ Previous 10  11  12  13  14 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
3/22/2008  1:15 AM
Off the topic but on the subject----here is another example of racial hatred that is as obnoxious as the Reverened Wright and really in the same pretext.

AP)—WTA head Larry Scott said Thursday that he strongly disagrees with comments made by Richard Williams, father of Serena and Venus, regarding racism on the women’s tour.

Saying he was disappointed by Williams’ recent remarks during an interview in India, Scott said in a statement: “The Tour has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to racism, and I have previously let Mr. Williams know that he should let me know if he ever had evidence of racist comments or acts in women’s professional tennis.”

While his daughters were playing earlier this month in Bangladore, India, where Venus reached the quarterfinals and Serena won the title, Williams told the Deccan Herald, “Well, I’m black and I’m prejudiced, very prejudiced. People are prejudiced in tennis. I don’t think Venus or Serena was ever accepted by tennis. They never will be.”

He said the media treated his daughters unfairly, that it was “the worst media job that they have done on any human being in the world,” and that if he were Serena and Venus, he would have quit playing.

“But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert, who cannot hit the ball, they (the media) will claim this is great,” he said.

Scott said, “Champions like Chris Evert and Tracy Austin have done so much to help build women’s tennis to where it is today, and it is regrettable that anyone would criticize them in this manner.”

The Williams sisters haven’t played at Indian Wells since 2001. They were booed after Venus pulled out of a semifinal match against her sister, citing knee tendinitis. Serena went on to win the title, but was booed during and after the championship match.



---->“But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert

The only racial bias I see in the article is when Mr Williams goes on a tangent calling Tracy Austin and Chris Evert--- LITTLE WHITE NO GOOD TRASHER.

The double-standard here is overbearing. Where does he get off saying that--why attack Chris Every Lloyd and Tracy--again people who came before Serena and Venus and help the sport rise in popularity so that girls like Venus and Serena Maria Sharipova Amelie Mauresmo and on down the list the opportunity to make MILLIONS of dollars? Why is he attacking them racially? They did nothing to him--if he has a true real problem where there is an instance of racial prejudice--then he should go after those individuals[if it happened?] To attack the women in a vile way makes him look like an idiot. It's ridiculous

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 03-22-2008 01:29 AM]
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2004
Member: #705
USA
3/22/2008  2:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Off the topic but on the subject----here is another example of racial hatred that is as obnoxious as the Reverened Wright and really in the same pretext.

AP)—WTA head Larry Scott said Thursday that he strongly disagrees with comments made by Richard Williams, father of Serena and Venus, regarding racism on the women’s tour.

Saying he was disappointed by Williams’ recent remarks during an interview in India, Scott said in a statement: “The Tour has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to racism, and I have previously let Mr. Williams know that he should let me know if he ever had evidence of racist comments or acts in women’s professional tennis.”

While his daughters were playing earlier this month in Bangladore, India, where Venus reached the quarterfinals and Serena won the title, Williams told the Deccan Herald, “Well, I’m black and I’m prejudiced, very prejudiced. People are prejudiced in tennis. I don’t think Venus or Serena was ever accepted by tennis. They never will be.”

He said the media treated his daughters unfairly, that it was “the worst media job that they have done on any human being in the world,” and that if he were Serena and Venus, he would have quit playing.

“But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert, who cannot hit the ball, they (the media) will claim this is great,” he said.

Scott said, “Champions like Chris Evert and Tracy Austin have done so much to help build women’s tennis to where it is today, and it is regrettable that anyone would criticize them in this manner.”

The Williams sisters haven’t played at Indian Wells since 2001. They were booed after Venus pulled out of a semifinal match against her sister, citing knee tendinitis. Serena went on to win the title, but was booed during and after the championship match.



---->“But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert

The only racial bias I see in the article is when Mr Williams goes on a tangent calling Tracy Austin and Chris Evert--- LITTLE WHITE NO GOOD TRASHER.

The double-standard here is overbearing. Where does he get off saying that--why attack Chris Every Lloyd and Tracy--again people who came before Serena and Venus and help the sport rise in popularity so that girls like Venus and Serena Maria Sharipova Amelie Mauresmo and on down the list the opportunity to make MILLIONS of dollars? Why is he attacking them racially? They did nothing to him--if he has a true real problem where there is an instance of racial prejudice--then he should go after those individuals[if it happened?] To attack the women in a vile way makes him look like an idiot. It's ridiculous

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 03-22-2008 01:29 AM]

Whenever someone is determined not to learn anything they skip all around the barnyard....topic to topic and take the same view point into each topic without learning one ounce from the same people they misunderstand. Man you're all over the place now Briggs. It's sad how people try to lump genocide, oppression, discrimination with RACIALLY INSENSITIVE COMMENTS in the same bag. The Rev Wright was talking about GENOCIDE. You're talking about insensitive comments. These two are in different ball parks. Man pick up a book some time. Educate yourself about some of the issues. You can start here in this thread. Many people have said very insightful things here.

'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 7/14/2004
Member: #704
3/22/2008  4:08 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.
Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a
is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

So then you'd agree with me that that its quite disappointing that Wright would stoop to lies in order to dupe his audience into a false enmity?

I'm not answering for Killa because he's of course able to hold his own lol.....but in case you didn't know the "America started AIDS in Africa" is not a theory started by Jeremiah Wright, nor a person of color for that matter. It's a theory (much like the Kennedy assassination, King assassination, 9/11 and so on). Many people feel that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves whatever it is they choose to believe. I don't think these people should be called liars. The Kennedy assassination, to many, is conceivable. The fact that Dr King was on the FBI list as a "threat to national security" (whatever that meant) it's conceivable that James Earl Ray was framed or perhaps didn't work alone. Now, has the US ever done things pertaining to disease and the deliberate deaths of black men. Most certainly. I think by Killa bringing up the Syphilis experiment (where syphilis were deliberately injected into black men in Tuskegee and which is one of the most inhumane things that I can think of) it is conceivable that HIV/AIDS were yet another "experiment" aimed at people of color. And get this, it went on for 40 YEARS. So the project was actually passed down to NEW doctors who came into the picture as time progressed. Now, I don't have an opinion on the AIDS things either way. I'm not a conspiracy guy. But I do understand when something is conceivable. So I don't think it's about a person "stooping to lies" as you say Rev Wright did. Perhaps he is wrong. But when looking at the Tuskegee experiment and the examining some of the info various doctors over the years have put out in conjunction with that theory, I can see how many feel it's possible or perhaps true.

Thelonius, Tuskeegee was very real. The HIV conspiracies, and there are a multitude of them, are very false. (That goes for everything from the 50s polio vaccine conspiracy to the 70s HepB vaccine "deliberate zoonosis.") And I'm not speaking from a position of a lack of information. Unfounded propaganda regarding the HIV virus and misrepresenting the Tuskegee experiment (those patients weren't "injected with syphillis"), both of which Wright has done, dilute the real suffering that those victims experienced.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 7/14/2004
Member: #704
3/22/2008  4:20 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.
Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a
is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

So then you'd agree with me that that its quite disappointing that Wright would stoop to lies in order to dupe his audience into a false enmity?

I'm not answering for Killa because he's of course able to hold his own lol.....but in case you didn't know the "America started AIDS in Africa" is not a theory started by Jeremiah Wright, nor a person of color for that matter. It's a theory (much like the Kennedy assassination, King assassination, 9/11 and so on). Many people feel that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves whatever it is they choose to believe. I don't think these people should be called liars. The Kennedy assassination, to many, is conceivable. The fact that Dr King was on the FBI list as a "threat to national security" (whatever that meant) it's conceivable that James Earl Ray was framed or perhaps didn't work alone. Now, has the US ever done things pertaining to disease and the deliberate deaths of black men. Most certainly. I think by Killa bringing up the Syphilis experiment (where syphilis were deliberately injected into black men in Tuskegee and which is one of the most inhumane things that I can think of) it is conceivable that HIV/AIDS were yet another "experiment" aimed at people of color. And get this, it went on for 40 YEARS. So the project was actually passed down to NEW doctors who came into the picture as time progressed. Now, I don't have an opinion on the AIDS things either way. I'm not a conspiracy guy. But I do understand when something is conceivable. So I don't think it's about a person "stooping to lies" as you say Rev Wright did. Perhaps he is wrong. But when looking at the Tuskegee experiment and the examining some of the info various doctors over the years have put out in conjunction with that theory, I can see how many feel it's possible or perhaps true.

Thelonius, Tuskeegee was very real. The HIV conspiracies, and there are a multitude of them, are very false. (That goes for everything from the 50s polio vaccine conspiracy to the 70s HepB vaccine "deliberate zoonosis.") And I'm not speaking from a position of a lack of information. Unfounded propaganda regarding the HIV virus and misrepresenting the Tuskegee experiment (those patients weren't "injected with syphillis"), both of which Wright has done, dilute the real suffering that those victims experienced.

In short, I have to assume that Wright is educated enough to know how bizarre his comments were. Even a glimmer of caution should have stopped him from parading that nonsense; it falls into one of 2 categories, either stupendous ignorance or malicious manipulation. When making that kind of accusation, you better be 100% sure you know what you're talking about. Inciting a false hatred of that magnitude ranks up there with the highest of sins.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2004
Member: #705
USA
3/22/2008  4:41 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.
Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a
is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

So then you'd agree with me that that its quite disappointing that Wright would stoop to lies in order to dupe his audience into a false enmity?

I'm not answering for Killa because he's of course able to hold his own lol.....but in case you didn't know the "America started AIDS in Africa" is not a theory started by Jeremiah Wright, nor a person of color for that matter. It's a theory (much like the Kennedy assassination, King assassination, 9/11 and so on). Many people feel that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves whatever it is they choose to believe. I don't think these people should be called liars. The Kennedy assassination, to many, is conceivable. The fact that Dr King was on the FBI list as a "threat to national security" (whatever that meant) it's conceivable that James Earl Ray was framed or perhaps didn't work alone. Now, has the US ever done things pertaining to disease and the deliberate deaths of black men. Most certainly. I think by Killa bringing up the Syphilis experiment (where syphilis were deliberately injected into black men in Tuskegee and which is one of the most inhumane things that I can think of) it is conceivable that HIV/AIDS were yet another "experiment" aimed at people of color. And get this, it went on for 40 YEARS. So the project was actually passed down to NEW doctors who came into the picture as time progressed. Now, I don't have an opinion on the AIDS things either way. I'm not a conspiracy guy. But I do understand when something is conceivable. So I don't think it's about a person "stooping to lies" as you say Rev Wright did. Perhaps he is wrong. But when looking at the Tuskegee experiment and the examining some of the info various doctors over the years have put out in conjunction with that theory, I can see how many feel it's possible or perhaps true.

Thelonius, Tuskeegee was very real. The HIV conspiracies, and there are a multitude of them, are very false. (That goes for everything from the 50s polio vaccine conspiracy to the 70s HepB vaccine "deliberate zoonosis.") And I'm not speaking from a position of a lack of information. Unfounded propaganda regarding the HIV virus and misrepresenting the Tuskegee experiment (those patients weren't "injected with syphillis"), both of which Wright has done, dilute the real suffering that those victims experienced.

Perhaps it isn't true. I don't know where HIV REALLY came from. That's something I will have to look into more extensively. But I think that whatever the proper way to view the Tuskegee situation , one thing's for sure....it's basically a true story of how black men (exclusively) were victims of an inhumane experiment connected to a disease where many deaths took place. This is what makes an HIV consperacy (targeting men of color) not so far off to many people. Whether it's true or not I'd need more info on both sides for myself. But reguardless it's not out of the question being that it's consistent with another such related experiment where black men were truly targeted. That's MY issue with the conspiracy being said to be "way off". To me, not so much.



[Edited by - theloniusmonk on 03-22-2008 04:48 AM]
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
bitty41
Posts: 22316
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 12/3/2006
Member: #1215
3/22/2008  5:51 AM
I haven't read all the discussion on this page but just wanted to share some information. If you can watch the documentary "Orgin of AIDS" it came on HBO a few years ago very much worth anyone's time. Also if you want some more information read the book by Edward Hooper "The River"
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/22/2008  8:54 AM
Posted by Solace:

I was going to respond to some of the latest that I've seen written over the past few days, but eh... it really doesn't seem worth the effort.

Instead, I'll simply say that there are some extremists on this board, and they don't make it very enticing to try to have a rational discussion. Ultimately, I think if you want people to listen, going for the jugular and intentionally striking nerves upon every point probably isn't a good strategy. *shrug*

Anyway, enjoy.

Translation: I have a valid opinion but I am afraid to engage with some people who may have a lot more informaion, debate skills and passion on the topic than I may have, for fear of personal reprisals. (of which there have been very few) The so-called strategy of being well-read (as killa4 and thelonius abvoisly are) is a strategy I cannot defeat with the tactics of making personal comments so I'll sit this one out... but drop by every now and then to make remarks not about the content but about my perception of them as people.

Solace - A discussion on race is never easy. But there is a volume of valuable perspective on history in this thread. It is not a competition. No one wins or loses. Next time you want to ponder a topic in your solitude, just ask yourself "why would a country like the US need a Voting Rights Act?"

What it is - is what it is. Truth is...

the anger of Rev Wright is only the tip of the same anger that Black folk have repressed since the days they were forcibly kidnapped, separated from their families and whipped (or killed) into working for free. The anger when a noose appears in Jena, Louisiana in 2007 is not a false anger, but a delayed reaction to the promise of George Wallace, the voting record of Strom Thurmond or the vicioious threats of parents in South Boston.

Read and Learn



[Edited by - misterearl on 03-22-2008 09:24 AM]
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/22/2008  8:59 AM
“Senator Barack Obama addressed the issue of race with the eloquence and sincerity and decency and optimism we have come to expect of him,” he said. “He did not seek to evade tough issues or to soothe us with comforting half-truths. Rather, he inspired us by reminding us of the awesome potential residing in our own responsibility.”

- NM GovBill Richardson
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/22/2008  9:36 AM
Why Obama Stands With His Church
By Colbert I. King
Saturday, March 22, 2008; Washington Post

(exerpted for highlights)

All they wanted to do was pray with the rest of the congregation. But that was asking too much.

To be sure, Absalom Jones and Richard Allen, two leaders in Philadelphia's black community, enjoyed great success in bringing African Americans into the Christian fold.

But the steady growth in black membership at St. George's Methodist Episcopal Church distressed the white congregation that owned the church.

At first, black Christians were moved to seats along the wall.

That still allowed for too much mingling.

So one Sunday morning as Allen, Jones and the other black worshipers knelt to pray, white church elders tapped Jones and Allen on the shoulders and told them to take their praying upstairs to a recently built balcony.

Rather than submit to such humiliation, Jones, Allen and the rest of the black worshipers walked out.

The two men formed their own congregations. Jones gained permission from the Episcopal Diocese of Pennsylvania to establish America's first black parish, St. Thomas African Episcopal Church. He eventually became the Episcopal Church's first African American priest.

Allen formed a Methodist congregation that eventually became today's multimillion-member African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church.

The walkout in the City of Brotherly Love occurred in 1787 -- a year that marks the beginning of America's independent black church, a theological movement born out of racism.

I also know, as Clark has pointed out, that church plays a religious and cathartic role unlike that of any other institution in the black community. It's a haven, a place for emotional release and personal affirmation. The pastor is given much leeway, so long as the church is held together as a family.

(now check THIS out)

"It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known,"

("hey, who stole my entire continent and my freakin' Pyramids?")

"No people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans,"

- Pat Buchanan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102539.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
once a knick always a knick
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407
3/22/2008  11:46 AM
The reason this thread is not in the main forum tells me alot about why we haven't moved on in this country on this subject.


Let it all out , be honest and not mean spirited and this thread can bring some understanding to those with open minds.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407
3/22/2008  12:04 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Moderators, this is too important a topic to be hidden in the back pages of your forum index....Obama speech on race should have every American in discussion at the dinner table...This place has been more than a dinner table discussion venue for most Knicks' lovers here...Bring this discussion back to the front page and lets iron out the differences we have at UK....Let's show the media who likes to peek at our discussions that we can get it right at UK and just this (great) nation can follow suit....


Yea do it like you did the ALBA THREAD.

When some one post it goes to the main forum.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407
3/22/2008  12:08 PM
Posted by bitty41:

I haven't read all the discussion on this page but just wanted to share some information. If you can watch the documentary "Orgin of AIDS" it came on HBO a few years ago very much worth anyone's time. Also if you want some more information read the book by Edward Hooper "The River"

So bitty what did the documentary say in a few words. I don't have HBO

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
3/22/2008  12:19 PM
That's great rationalization of Rev Wright's race baiting lies.
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.
Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a
is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

So then you'd agree with me that that its quite disappointing that Wright would stoop to lies in order to dupe his audience into a false enmity?

I'm not answering for Killa because he's of course able to hold his own lol.....but in case you didn't know the "America started AIDS in Africa" is not a theory started by Jeremiah Wright, nor a person of color for that matter. It's a theory (much like the Kennedy assassination, King assassination, 9/11 and so on). Many people feel that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves whatever it is they choose to believe. I don't think these people should be called liars. The Kennedy assassination, to many, is conceivable. The fact that Dr King was on the FBI list as a "threat to national security" (whatever that meant) it's conceivable that James Earl Ray was framed or perhaps didn't work alone. Now, has the US ever done things pertaining to disease and the deliberate deaths of black men. Most certainly. I think by Killa bringing up the Syphilis experiment (where syphilis were deliberately injected into black men in Tuskegee and which is one of the most inhumane things that I can think of) it is conceivable that HIV/AIDS were yet another "experiment" aimed at people of color. And get this, it went on for 40 YEARS. So the project was actually passed down to NEW doctors who came into the picture as time progressed. Now, I don't have an opinion on the AIDS things either way. I'm not a conspiracy guy. But I do understand when something is conceivable. So I don't think it's about a person "stooping to lies" as you say Rev Wright did. Perhaps he is wrong. But when looking at the Tuskegee experiment and the examining some of the info various doctors over the years have put out in conjunction with that theory, I can see how many feel it's possible or perhaps true.

Thelonius, Tuskeegee was very real. The HIV conspiracies, and there are a multitude of them, are very false. (That goes for everything from the 50s polio vaccine conspiracy to the 70s HepB vaccine "deliberate zoonosis.") And I'm not speaking from a position of a lack of information. Unfounded propaganda regarding the HIV virus and misrepresenting the Tuskegee experiment (those patients weren't "injected with syphillis"), both of which Wright has done, dilute the real suffering that those victims experienced.

Perhaps it isn't true. I don't know where HIV REALLY came from. That's something I will have to look into more extensively. But I think that whatever the proper way to view the Tuskegee situation , one thing's for sure....it's basically a true story of how black men (exclusively) were victims of an inhumane experiment connected to a disease where many deaths took place. This is what makes an HIV consperacy (targeting men of color) not so far off to many people. Whether it's true or not I'd need more info on both sides for myself. But reguardless it's not out of the question being that it's consistent with another such related experiment where black men were truly targeted. That's MY issue with the conspiracy being said to be "way off". To me, not so much.



[Edited by - theloniusmonk on 03-22-2008 04:48 AM]
martin
Posts: 76957
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
3/22/2008  12:49 PM
Posted by playa2:

The reason this thread is not in the main forum tells me alot about why we haven't moved on in this country on this subject.


Let it all out , be honest and not mean spirited and this thread can bring some understanding to those with open minds.

I think I moved this thread over. Perhaps you need to tell me why I did it cause I can't remember.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
3/22/2008  1:25 PM
A lot of stuff being thrown out that I have an opinion, so I'm just going to throw it out there in no particular order or as a specific response to a post.

First off, the Syphilis experiment/crime. Obviously this is a terrible thing. But to make the jump from that to developing HIV and then infecting blacks with it systematically is a jump from sanity to complete paranoia. I don't even know how anybody who is not looking to simply light up some racial tension can make claim that "white people" infected "black people" with HIV. That is equivalent to the dark ages claim that witches infected Christians with the black death. Or that Jews drink the blood of Christian newborns. And the list goes on.

Now, on Nation of Islam, while it might not be an explicitly terrorist organization, its ideology is well inline with terrorist organizations that in fact have killed many people. The modern day KKK has not killed anybody for some time now either. Does that mean that we should be ok with a presidential candidate that associated himself in any way with anybody even close to the Klan? To me the idea and the action hold the same weight. An organization that advocates hatred toward non Muslims, and not blacks really, no matter how much community work that they do, to me is an evil.

Now on the whole thing of whit racism being worse than black racism because white people were in position of power to act on it. Yes white people have done way more bad things to black people if you wan to keep a score. But if the positions were reversed, and whit people were a minority both in numbers and money/political power in a country, the "score" would have been just the same. Racism is bad no matter how much you have been hurt by it. I don't get a free ride to hate pretty much every European and Arab nation because I'm Jewish. And blacks don't get a free ride to hate white people because of slavery and white supremacy. For racial tension to ease, there must be reconciliation and forgiveness, things that the Nation of Islam is not familiar with.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407
3/22/2008  1:32 PM
I don't know why, it had a lot of activity and it was a current event.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2004
Member: #705
USA
3/22/2008  2:19 PM
Posted by simrud:

A lot of stuff being thrown out that I have an opinion, so I'm just going to throw it out there in no particular order or as a specific response to a post.

First off, the Syphilis experiment/crime. Obviously this is a terrible thing. But to make the jump from that to developing HIV and then infecting blacks with it systematically is a jump from sanity to complete paranoia. I don't even know how anybody who is not looking to simply light up some racial tension can make claim that "white people" infected "black people" with HIV. That is equivalent to the dark ages claim that witches infected Christians with the black death. Or that Jews drink the blood of Christian newborns. And the list goes on.

Now, on Nation of Islam, while it might not be an explicitly terrorist organization, its ideology is well inline with terrorist organizations that in fact have killed many people. The modern day KKK has not killed anybody for some time now either. Does that mean that we should be ok with a presidential candidate that associated himself in any way with anybody even close to the Klan? To me the idea and the action hold the same weight. An organization that advocates hatred toward non Muslims, and not blacks really, no matter how much community work that they do, to me is an evil.

Now on the whole thing of whit racism being worse than black racism because white people were in position of power to act on it. Yes white people have done way more bad things to black people if you wan to keep a score. But if the positions were reversed, and whit people were a minority both in numbers and money/political power in a country, the "score" would have been just the same. Racism is bad no matter how much you have been hurt by it. I don't get a free ride to hate pretty much every European and Arab nation because I'm Jewish. And blacks don't get a free ride to hate white people because of slavery and white supremacy. For racial tension to ease, there must be reconciliation and forgiveness, things that the Nation of Islam is not familiar with.

Again, you guys act like this HIV theory about black men as it pertains to HIV is a concept developed by Rev Wright ("because he is racist). You guys are forgetting these theories were developed by white men. It is literally various white men in science that have developed and dug deep into this theory. This cannot keep being passed over when a person says it's "paranoia" on the part of Rev Wright. Apparently he (as many others) have been presented with certain data about it and apparently that data is enough for him and many others to buy it. No different from any other dirt that has been surpressed by the government. And everyone here KNOWS that has happened for. I believe it's a matter of you either buying or NOT buying the data that is available out there on the topic. In comparison I don't believe a person who says Kennedy's assassination was an inside job are "parinoid" or anti-American for that matter. There is information available to everyone. Make up your own mind. But don't get mad at the next person for the conclusion they have arrived at based on this info. Especially if there is enough to go on. In that case maybe Michael Moore is "paranoid" as well. But these people are not making these things up in their head. Not as far as I can see.

And as far as the hyperthetical situation that if the shoe were on the other foot it would be the same......the reality is that is NOT the case. The shoe ISN'T on the other foot. There is racial and class discrimination every single day. There is racial profiling that goes on daily. There are things that go on that are much worse in fact. I believe there are a lot of people going around thinking that these communities are bothered because of the past. That has something to do with it. But there is the oppressive reality of TODAY. Listen to people's stories. You'll see. You can't tell a person that's catching hell that they don't have a reason to be bothered. I have a friend that just spent 2 years in prison. He was picked up on "suspicion" of selling drugs. He was held for two full years before he was let go. Innocent. No money to get himself off. He was thrown in cells where many other young black men had similar stories and were released after a year or two or three. Other stories were about guys being murdered by police. Unarmed. You cannot tell a mother or father of these young men that they don't have a right to take issue with the system (and what the government does or doesn't do) as it pertains to the protection of these young mens' rights. These are stories you hear in black and/or poor communities. This is current! Then people get together and say stuff like "ya know, these things were going on even back in 1956. Same thing". This is when history AND the present come together.

To me, race relations don't come to a point of understanding until people are educated about their neighbor's situation. Know when a person is catching hell. Believe them! Don't hear there story and tell them to be quiet and forgive and stop complaining what r u so mad about. This adds to the hurt. The black community goes thru the scholastic system learning about every great white man (and woman) that ever existed. Or so it seems. I went to a performing arts school as an instrumental major. Like me, most Americans (red, yellow, black and white) can tell you 3 great European artists. 3 great European musicians and composers. 3 great European philosophers. 3 great white American or European authors/playwrites. 3 great white American politicians. This can go on and on. But most people (black and white alike) cannot do the same for the greatness that has come out of the American black community and Africa. Some people feel that this system is self serving in favor of white Americans. Some may resent that. Then people who don't understand call this resentment racism or reverse racism or whatever other term they have come up with recently (so that the real issues are never address.....they're protected by labels). The way things are set up it's totally geared towards the greatness of white accomplishments and the black story is, again, marginalized or non-existent all together. Learning the greatnes of people is GREAT! But it must be balanced. So, not only are people not educated about the black tradition in this world but call programs and/or people who dedicate themselves to the education of the black community (and others) about it's greatness racist. Do you know what knowledge of the greatness of your lineage does for a child? And then think about the opposite. You can always tell by a person's comments if they are totally out of touch with the community. I don't blame them at the end of the day. Most people are followers. People just go with what society says is "important". But this leaves a group of people voiceless, powerless and deprived. Some may resent this. Don't resent THEM for resenting this. You'd resent it too. Marvin Gaye said it best when he said "Talk to me so you can see WHAT'S GOING ON!". That is still relevant today

So to me, those who feel racial healing just comes from people just "being nice" to each other and merely saying "nice things to" one another KNOWING that there are things beneath the surface is a very limited view of what's going on.

'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
3/22/2008  2:34 PM
I voted for Obama in the primary and I still think he's the best candidate for he job. I'm glad he's being tested and vetted, and I'm pleased with the way he rises to the occasions.

I am not troubled by the specter of Obama having angry friends and a suspicious grandmother. In a diverse democracy we need to have tolerance for a broad spectrum of opinions.

As for Obama and his associates not being "proud" enough of America... well, here is Mitt Romneys answer to a question along the lines of what would you most like to see changed in America, or what is America's greatest weakness (sorry, I forget it verbatim and his campaign team made sure to remove the question):



I have no interest in people who's friends and families are so gosh darn rich, white and content that they are at a loss for words on how to improve the country.

People who trumped how America is the "Greatest" country in the world often are among those who've traveled outside the boarders the least. If Greatest is used to mean the strongest militarily or economically then I'd have to agree, but typically the term is used to suggest that we have some sort of moral superiority over the rest of the world that I just don't get. Furthermore, I could argue that viewing oneself as superior to others, from a nationalistic perspective, is not much different than viewing oneself as superior to others from a racial perspective. Why is it anymore legitimate to suggest that America is the greatest country than to say that the "fill in the blank" race is the greatest race? Both constitute a hubris people use to inflate themselves in order to justify their self-serving motives, such that they get first dibs on whatever the hell they want. Isn't that what it's really all about - people making sure that they and their kind are taken care of first? (However they choose to define themselves, be it along gender, tribal, racial, nationalistic, lines, etc)?

America has lost it's way morally, economically and militarily. We need people with a deep and diverse perspective to right the ship. We need people who are willing to come down from their high horse, to stop thinking what's best for them is the way it must be and that having the capacity to dominate equates to virtue.

In the end, I'm wondering what is truly the big fear in a candidate associating with people who know what it's like to feel disenfranchised and who believe this country still has a long way to grow?
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 7/14/2004
Member: #704
3/22/2008  3:24 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by simrud:

A lot of stuff being thrown out that I have an opinion, so I'm just going to throw it out there in no particular order or as a specific response to a post.

First off, the Syphilis experiment/crime. Obviously this is a terrible thing. But to make the jump from that to developing HIV and then infecting blacks with it systematically is a jump from sanity to complete paranoia. I don't even know how anybody who is not looking to simply light up some racial tension can make claim that "white people" infected "black people" with HIV. That is equivalent to the dark ages claim that witches infected Christians with the black death. Or that Jews drink the blood of Christian newborns. And the list goes on.

Now, on Nation of Islam, while it might not be an explicitly terrorist organization, its ideology is well inline with terrorist organizations that in fact have killed many people. The modern day KKK has not killed anybody for some time now either. Does that mean that we should be ok with a presidential candidate that associated himself in any way with anybody even close to the Klan? To me the idea and the action hold the same weight. An organization that advocates hatred toward non Muslims, and not blacks really, no matter how much community work that they do, to me is an evil.

Now on the whole thing of whit racism being worse than black racism because white people were in position of power to act on it. Yes white people have done way more bad things to black people if you wan to keep a score. But if the positions were reversed, and whit people were a minority both in numbers and money/political power in a country, the "score" would have been just the same. Racism is bad no matter how much you have been hurt by it. I don't get a free ride to hate pretty much every European and Arab nation because I'm Jewish. And blacks don't get a free ride to hate white people because of slavery and white supremacy. For racial tension to ease, there must be reconciliation and forgiveness, things that the Nation of Islam is not familiar with.

Again, you guys act like this HIV theory about black men as it pertains to HIV is a concept developed by Rev Wright ("because he is racist). You guys are forgetting these theories were developed by white men. It is literally various white men in science that have developed and dug deep into this theory. This cannot keep being passed over when a person says it's "paranoia" on the part of Rev Wright. Apparently he (as many others) have been presented with certain data about it and apparently that data is enough for him and many others to buy it. No different from any other dirt that has been surpressed by the government. And everyone here KNOWS that has happened for. I believe it's a matter of you either buying or NOT buying the data that is available out there on the topic. In comparison I don't believe a person who says Kennedy's assassination was an inside job are "parinoid" or anti-American for that matter. There is information available to everyone. Make up your own mind. But don't get mad at the next person for the conclusion they have arrived at based on this info. Especially if there is enough to go on. In that case maybe Michael Moore is "paranoid" as well. But these people are not making these things up in their head. Not as far as I can see.

And as far as the hyperthetical situation that if the shoe were on the other foot it would be the same......the reality is that is NOT the case. The shoe ISN'T on the other foot. There is racial and class discrimination every single day. There is racial profiling that goes on daily. There are things that go on that are much worse in fact. I believe there are a lot of people going around thinking that these communities are bothered because of the past. That has something to do with it. But there is the oppressive reality of TODAY. Listen to people's stories. You'll see. You can't tell a person that's catching hell that they don't have a reason to be bothered. I have a friend that just spent 2 years in prison. He was picked up on "suspicion" of selling drugs. He was held for two full years before he was let go. Innocent. No money to get himself off. He was thrown in cells where many other young black men had similar stories and were released after a year or two or three. Other stories were about guys being murdered by police. Unarmed. You cannot tell a mother or father of these young men that they don't have a right to take issue with the system (and what the government does or doesn't do) as it pertains to the protection of these young mens' rights. These are stories you hear in black and/or poor communities. This is current! Then people get together and say stuff like "ya know, these things were going on even back in 1956. Same thing". This is when history AND the present come together.

To me, race relations don't come to a point of understanding until people are educated about their neighbor's situation. Know when a person is catching hell. Believe them! Don't hear there story and tell them to be quiet and forgive and stop complaining what r u so mad about. This adds to the hurt. The black community goes thru the scholastic system learning about every great white man (and woman) that ever existed. Or so it seems. I went to a performing arts school as an instrumental major. Like me, most Americans (red, yellow, black and white) can tell you 3 great European artists. 3 great European musicians and composers. 3 great European philosophers. 3 great white American or European authors/playwrites. 3 great white American politicians. This can go on and on. But most people (black and white alike) cannot do the same for the greatness that has come out of the American black community and Africa. Some people feel that this system is self serving in favor of white Americans. Some may resent that. Then people who don't understand call this resentment racism or reverse racism or whatever other term they have come up with recently (so that the real issues are never address.....they're protected by labels). The way things are set up it's totally geared towards the greatness of white accomplishments and the black story is, again, marginalized or non-existent all together. Learning the greatnes of people is GREAT! But it must be balanced. So, not only are people not educated about the black tradition in this world but call programs and/or people who dedicate themselves to the education of the black community (and others) about it's greatness racist. Do you know what knowledge of the greatness of your lineage does for a child? And then think about the opposite. You can always tell by a person's comments if they are totally out of touch with the community. I don't blame them at the end of the day. Most people are followers. People just go with what society says is "important". But this leaves a group of people voiceless, powerless and deprived. Some may resent this. Don't resent THEM for resenting this. You'd resent it too. Marvin Gaye said it best when he said "Talk to me so you can see WHAT'S GOING ON!". That is still relevant today

So to me, those who feel racial healing just comes from people just "being nice" to each other and merely saying "nice things to" one another KNOWING that there are things beneath the surface is a very limited view of what's going on.

Thelonius, I'm not sure why you're missing the point here. You're fabricating the notion that some are acting like Wright invented those theories. The argument I've put forth is simple. The HIV conspiracy theory is false, by almost any reasonable scientific standard (I can get technical here, if you'd like). At the very least, Wright, an educated man, couldn't have been sure about its truth value. Thus, it is highly irresponsible and, in fact, racist to disseminate such hate-inciting fiction. Remember, Wright didn't say he "wouldn't be shocked" if the US government did this or that, he said that they did conduct a mass genocide against people of color through HIV. There's no way to spin that.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2004
Member: #705
USA
3/22/2008  3:48 PM
I never said it was right for him to do so. I said it's conceivable when others say it's ignorant or whatever word people have used. But my question to you is are the white men who introduced this theory about AIDS injected into the men in the Congo racist as well? Or is it just Rev Wright for repeating them that's racist? I just need to know what seperates Rev Wright (as a racist) from the guys who hypothesized this thing? Are they considered "self-haters"? Anti-American? I just want to understand the racist thing when this isn't Wright's theory. That's my point. Do you consider Ed Hooper (a white man) a racist for being a pioneer in this theory? How about W.D. Hamilton from Oxford? People have latched on to the "racist" thing as it pertains to the HIV accusation. But is Wright the racist? Or these men (and many many many other white men who developed and support these claims)? Or are they ALL racists because of it? That's where the theory falls apart.

Again, I am not an advocate of the theory at this point.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Page 12 of 18 « First‹ Previous 10  11  12  13  14 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
OT: Taking down Obama with the race card
Forum Index  ›  Off-Topic Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy