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Game Thread: Bulls vs Knicks - Fine, I'll start it.
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holfresh
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1/1/2008  11:27 AM
Posted by King1:

Holfresh please find the msg thing because David has never taken a swipe at a player and if he did it would be on the front page of the paper.

I had a few drinks when I posted that...It' wasn't MSG.com, it was a pregame interview on MSG network...I'm sure there are many here who saw that interview...
AUTOADVERT
bitty41
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1/1/2008  11:41 AM
Posted by King1:

Well wrong again holfresh Lee couldnt play or jump and was dying to play. He went to Indy on his own to get it checked out because he wanted to play so bad. You have no idea what goes on and you just love killing the white boy on the team. I pray your done go stand up for Steph and Zach.


The more you mention this the more it seems like this is a race thing for you. Because I've seen you mention his race few times and it just comes off like this is a big factor for you IMO. Im not judging you; one of my good friends openly admits to me that he supports teams like Duke, NC, and the Bulls because they have good white players. Its totally not a big deal to me that he feels this way we actually have a good laugh about it.


David Lee the complexion for the protection

[Edited by - bitty41 on 01-01-2008 11:43 AM]
King1
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1/1/2008  11:42 AM
Lee may have had too much Hennessy if he said something that dumb.
King1
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1/1/2008  11:43 AM
Bitty I dont care about race Holfresh kills Lee because he is white.
bitty41
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1/1/2008  11:48 AM
Then why do you always seem to mention that David Lee is a white boy he's actually a white man? Why not mention his luscious golden curls instead or that he's a left-handed. I haven't seen you say this "Always hating on the left-handed people or the curly hair people"?
King1
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1/1/2008  12:08 PM
I say it because people accuse him of getting preferential treatment because he is white and he is a fan favorite because he is white and that is crap he is a basketball player
tkf
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1/1/2008  12:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Here is the problem Blue...You were trying to give Lee credit for something he didn't deserve and I called you on it...Deal with it...Don't twist my intentions because you are bright and understood fully what I was doing...It's the same thing I accuse many posters here of doing and you were doing it as well...I not trying to get you to bash Lee and U know that..I just trying to get you guys to stop making up things to credit Lee with that he doesn't deserve...He ahs almost become a mythical figure on this board...You were fully ready to credit Lee or dis Isiah for not having Lee in the game as the reason the Knicks fell behind when you time track was entirely wrong,but you tried to make it seems like I was promoting Curry...I'm done with this...


holfresh: I think you missed the point of blues post, but anyway, what was blue giving lee credit for, that he didn't deserve? Do you think it is just blue? well let me post what the orlando announcers had to say about the knicks, and particularly what matt goukas said, he, being a former NBA coach..
This is not verbatim, but close to what he said " The knicks have a lot of guys who you never know what your are going to get from game to game, David lee is the only guy on this team that you can count on to give you consistent play every game, and the knicks need to find another player or two, that can give you that". And that is the truth. That is why the lineups change and that is why lee seems to be the best player on the knicks every night. Not because he is the most talented, not because he is white, not because we love lee on this site, but it is because every night we can count on lee to give a full effort and cosistent play, can we say the same about curry? zach? nate? hell even crawford? Every team we play analyst always seem to have great things to say about lee, from the bulls, to orlando to sactowns announcers, they all glow about this kid? now really, is it even fair to come here and say that blue or anyone else is giving lee undue credit when 99% of the league has nothing but respect and glowing reviews of this kid? let me ask you this? why was lee invited to play and work out against the olympic team? There are many role players around the league, why lee? I will wait patiently for that answer....



[Edited by - tkf on 01-01-2008 12:15 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
holfresh
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1/1/2008  12:25 PM
Posted by King1:

Bitty I dont care about race Holfresh kills Lee because he is white.

Bro, please don't do that, I do not kill Lee because he is white...I cannot understand why you keep saying stuff like that...I kill people that like to hype Lee's effort and game..No other player on this team gets hype..Lee does...I was not even trying to kill Blue on this...I was just telling him to stop what he was saying...He was trying to say that the Knicks were in the game when Lee was on the court and Isiah was misguided going with Curry to the detriment of the team with Lee on the bench...he was wrong...Curry replaced Zach and the Knicks immediately fell behind..Lee was in the game when the Knicks lost the lead playing next to Curry...When Lee went to the bench the Knicks played then even in the second quarter...The Knicks didn't lose any ground when Lee was on the bench, they in fact gained a point...It was no big deal until Blue tried to make it seem like I was making a point about Curry...

But honestly, I really don't care what you think...Your post are often geared towards making Lee look like something he is not... You are the very guy that primarily HYPE everything that Lee does...You admitted you are not a fan of the team, just DLee and the Gators etc..If anything you do yourself disservice by continuing the HYPE thereby damaging your credibility...DLee is nice player for us, not a great one...He is not a difference maker...He plays hard more times than not which is more than I can say about any other player on this team...

Blue ask me who would I trade and who would I keep on this team...I said Lee is the guy I would keep most, why?...Because losing affects him and I don't think it affects others on this team...I want people who cares about winning on my team...Maybe it affects Nate..But I don't think it affects Craw,Marbs,Curry,Zach, etc...Maybe Q a little but he is done....I don't rail against Lee because he is white...I rail against people who prop him up for no reason and attribute things to him for that same reason, whatever if may be(runon)...Breen was saying the same thing during the game...He was saying the Knicks were losing and Isiah should not have kept Lee on the bench...Lee ended up playing 36 mins...Maybe people want him to play 48 mins now....

I want to see all players do well who play for the Knicks...When he start doing the things that many here say he does, then I'll be rooting for him to continue to do it...When "good things happen" when Lee is game, I would never want him on the bench...When Lee becomes the all around player that people here says he is, believe me, I would be that guy giving him props for that effort...When Lee play hard every game, I'll be the guy that givs him props for that too...But until then, when we make stuff up about his game or his effect on the game, I'll be here to point out you are making it up as well....So call it DLee hate or white hate, I think I'm being very fair and want him to be treated like any other Knick in uniform...That may be a bad thing for many here but I think it's fair....
King1
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1/1/2008  12:37 PM
Who cares about hype I want Lee to get paid. He doesnt have the contract like all the guys on this team that doesnt deserve it. Zach should get more grief for shooting the ball more times a game then Kobe. Steph should get smoked for quitting on his team. Lee will be a difference maker on a team that wins, he doesnt need shots, and will try and do the dirty work. Zach isnt a difference maker either or this team and portland would have been better.
King1
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1/1/2008  12:42 PM
Holfresh why dont you put your energy in the guys that dont shoot the ball at a high percentage, turn the ball over and shouldnt be playing.
bitty41
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1/1/2008  1:33 PM
Posted by King1:

Who cares about hype I want Lee to get paid. He doesnt have the contract like all the guys on this team that doesnt deserve it. Zach should get more grief for shooting the ball more times a game then Kobe. Steph should get smoked for quitting on his team. Lee will be a difference maker on a team that wins, he doesnt need shots, and will try and do the dirty work. Zach isnt a difference maker either or this team and portland would have been better.

Okay putting aside the whole debate between Lee and Randolph King you have been using a lot misinformation to support your arguements. I have no problem debating the whole Zach Randolph issue if we're both bringing facts to the table. You stated that Zach should get grief for shooting the ball more then Kobe this is totally incorrect Kobe averages 20 shots a game and Zach averages 15 shots with the shooting percentage of 46 which isn't great by any means but it isn't as atrocious as you try to lead people to believe. Which if you look at an 18pt scorer this the norm in terms of the amount of shots.



Zach' stats http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3531/career;_ylt=Aqv8IzKQHUfIJXB5SPtqv52kvLYF

Kobe' stats

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/career;_ylt=Aqv8IzKQHUfIJXB5SPtqv52kvLYF

Also you continue to bring up Portland and you paint this picture that Portland has been the team you see today. This is grossly untrue Portland was an even worse organization then the Knicks until 2 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Trailblazers
The one incident that you love mentioning about Zach punching Rueben Patterson what you don't ever mention is that Rueben Patterson was no model citizen especially considering that he is a registered sex offender. On the court the Blazers had players like Sebestian Telfair, Jeff McInnis, Bonzi Wells who made the famous comment "they [fans] really don't matter to us. They can boo us every day, but they're still going to ask for our autographs if they see us on the street". Or Darius Miles who blantantly disrespected Mo Cheeks in front of his teammates. Granted Zach contributed to this environment and could have risen above all this and led them to the playoffs but lets be real here that situation was just as terrible as the Knicks.



You say Zach doesn't deserve the money he's making.

Zach is making the typical market value for a player with his numbers. Guys with his numbers are making anywhere from 13 to 20 million a year.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

So should he or any player for that matter turn down these great contracts and say "you know what I don't deserve that much money pay me 6 million a year instead"? So if your mad about the money blame Portland's GM blame Isiah for taking it on but to get mad at guys for not turning down this type of money is ridiculous.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 01-01-2008 1:38 PM]
King1
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1/1/2008  3:05 PM
Bitty he has been arrested numerous times since high school and my favorite is the strip bar during bereavement instead of being on the bench. Wont Zach be making like 17 million before this atrocious contract is over. Please look at starting power forwards and centers in the league and tell me where 46% ranks?
King1
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1/1/2008  3:08 PM
Okay Bitty wrong on the Kobe I dont look at stats early in the year he was when I was griping now here are some other facts.
1. Since high school Zach has had run in with the law every year but one 2004 I believe
2. Portland is a better team without him
3. Knicks are a worse team with him.
4. 44% is atrocious for a big man to shoot.
5. Zach has a horrible contract and you base everything on stats.
BlueSeats
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1/1/2008  3:25 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Here is the problem Blue...You were trying to give Lee credit for something he didn't deserve and I called you on it...Deal with it...Don't twist my intentions because you are bright and understood fully what I was doing...It's the same thing I accuse many posters here of doing and you were doing it as well...I not trying to get you to bash Lee and U know that..I just trying to get you guys to stop making up things to credit Lee with that he doesn't deserve...He ahs almost become a mythical figure on this board...You were fully ready to credit Lee or dis Isiah for not having Lee in the game as the reason the Knicks fell behind when you time track was entirely wrong,but you tried to make it seems like I was promoting Curry...I'm done with this...


Fresh, cut the crap. Stop pretending people are saying things they aren't. You keep saying Lee is raised to a mythological figure. Show me the posts. Sow me anyone saying anything more that what you've said of him, that he's one of the few guys who plays like he cares and that he's one of the few keepers on the team. Until then you should be "done with this."
BlueSeats
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1/1/2008  3:58 PM
Maybe Isiah is delusional on Lee too.

“It’s not so much what Eddy or Zach hasn’t done,” Thomas said. “It’s about what David is doing. He deserves more minutes out on the floor. He’s a ball mover, he’s a good rebounder, his shot’s improved. We play better when he’s out on the floor, either with Zach or Eddy. Those two guys can play together, but in my mind it’s more about making room for an emerging player to have more opportunities out on the floor.”
bitty41
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1/1/2008  4:59 PM
Posted by King1:

Bitty he has been arrested numerous times since high school and my favorite is the strip bar during bereavement instead of being on the bench. Wont Zach be making like 17 million before this atrocious contract is over. Please look at starting power forwards and centers in the league and tell me where 46% ranks?

Going to a strip club is NOT illegal. You keep saying he's been arrested numerous times and this just not true. One indident didn't even involve him it was his friend who was driving his car. Another time he was just questioned by the police. So please stop spreading false information which you have been doing since day 1 with Zach. Look you think he's a bad player because his turnover rate is high fine, you think his defense is atrocious okay, you can name another powerforward that available you want on the Knicks instead then please all ears. Because I don't have a problem with peole sticking to the basketball issues and bringing some information to the table. But this type of stuff with trying to paint this picture of a criminal whose making way more loot then most players is just false and nothing but a cheap shot.
King1
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1/1/2008  5:23 PM
Check out his high school record and he went to a strip bar in Portland the night of a game saying he was on bereavement leave.
Solace
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1/1/2008  5:23 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by King1:

Bitty he has been arrested numerous times since high school and my favorite is the strip bar during bereavement instead of being on the bench. Wont Zach be making like 17 million before this atrocious contract is over. Please look at starting power forwards and centers in the league and tell me where 46% ranks?

Going to a strip club is NOT illegal. You keep saying he's been arrested numerous times and this just not true. One indident didn't even involve him it was his friend who was driving his car. Another time he was just questioned by the police. So please stop spreading false information which you have been doing since day 1 with Zach. Look you think he's a bad player because his turnover rate is high fine, you think his defense is atrocious okay, you can name another powerforward that available you want on the Knicks instead then please all ears. Because I don't have a problem with peole sticking to the basketball issues and bringing some information to the table. But this type of stuff with trying to paint this picture of a criminal whose making way more loot then most players is just false and nothing but a cheap shot.

I'll have to find the article later. When we first got Zach, a list of his offenses were posted. If I remember correctly, he's been in some form of trouble for one reason or another every year except one, as King said. The bereavement thing was an embarassment. He got leave with the team to grieve, not to go to a strip club. You're right, it's not illegal; it just shows poor judgment and extremely poor taste, similar to what he's shown throughout the rest of his career.

Zach is a good player, but he's among the lamest of the lame in the NBA when it comes to character.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
King1
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1/1/2008  5:25 PM
I guess in your mind DUI with pot isnt a crime either? If you think he has been arrested one time you must have been riding in the cr with Zach.
King1
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1/1/2008  5:32 PM
Bitty arrested in high school for shoplifting, then 30 days house arrest for battery, then in trouble again junior year for selling a stolen gun. 2002 under age drinking, punched a teammate, 2003 DWI with pot, then 2004 lied to authorities about a shooting with brother. Also had the bereavement run in with his team. Please spin this I am sure you will
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