Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by djsunyc:


marbury's 8 assists are empty. 33 wins in his best statistical season. so much for making others around you better.

big picture killa: isiah was hired 2 1/2 years ago. the team he inherited won 37 games the sesaon before with a payroll in the $80 mil range. 2 1/2 seasons later, 2 coaches fired, payroll in excess of $120 mil...37 wins ain't gonna cut it. all of these players are isiah's. all of the coaches were isiah's. look at what we're talking about - .500. that's what this team is reduced to. AWESOME.

Yeah, you have addressed nonoe of my points, except the shocker that Marrb's 8apg were empty.
Here is a question I can never get an answer to from any of LB's concubines:
If LB were here, what win total would cut it?

None of you can answer this, because a) you dont want your double standard to be exposed and 2) you think there is something more magical about LB's wins than Zekes. If we win 45 games with Zeke, you will call those empty wins and find some other nonsensical way to discredit him and our teams progress. No one had mandate for LB above .500, but in Zekes one year, he must make the playoffs and be above .500? All i ask for is what I can never get from you guys, consistancy. An equal standard.

Its no different than how Briggs didn't like Frye and said time and time again that Frye has to average 14 and 7 in order for drafting him to make any sense. I root for the Knicks, not LB, Steph or Isiah. Apparently, LB is the only coach who knows how to win.

Posted by codeunknown:

Some here have done that. But, the LB detractors are no less. Not only did LB throw the season but he tricked his family into moving to New York and buying a house. Scoundrel.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by djsunyc:


marbury's 8 assists are empty. 33 wins in his best statistical season. so much for making others around you better.

big picture killa: isiah was hired 2 1/2 years ago. the team he inherited won 37 games the sesaon before with a payroll in the $80 mil range. 2 1/2 seasons later, 2 coaches fired, payroll in excess of $120 mil...37 wins ain't gonna cut it. all of these players are isiah's. all of the coaches were isiah's. look at what we're talking about - .500. that's what this team is reduced to. AWESOME.

Yeah, you have addressed nonoe of my points, except the shocker that Marrb's 8apg were empty.
Here is a question I can never get an answer to from any of LB's concubines:
If LB were here, what win total would cut it?

None of you can answer this, because a) you dont want your double standard to be exposed and 2) you think there is something more magical about LB's wins than Zekes. If we win 45 games with Zeke, you will call those empty wins and find some other nonsensical way to discredit him and our teams progress. No one had mandate for LB above .500, but in Zekes one year, he must make the playoffs and be above .500? All i ask for is what I can never get from you guys, consistancy. An equal standard.

Its no different than how Briggs didn't like Frye and said time and time again that Frye has to average 14 and 7 in order for drafting him to make any sense. I root for the Knicks, not LB, Steph or Isiah. Apparently, LB is the only coach who knows how to win.

Yeah, you have addressed nonoe of my points, except the shocker that Marrb's 8apg were empty.
Here is a question I can never get an answer to from any of LB's concubines:
If LB were here, what win total would cut it?

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by codeunknown:

Some here have done that. But, the LB detractors are no less. Not only did LB throw the season but he tricked his family into moving to New York and buying a house. Scoundrel.

FYI, many Brownies conceede that he threw the season. What is your point about 'tricking' his family into buing a house? He bought a house in a city where he signed a 5 year 60 million dollar contract. He had a house in Michigan too. What is your point?

Posted by martin:

I would say that 50 wins and having the team moving in the right direction would have been a very good year 3 total for LB. I hold Isiah to the same. This is his third year.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

It comes down to what Larry Browns agenda was. Was it to basically take the season off to teach pure fundamentals. Or was it to undermine Isiah and get what he wants.

Even if it was to teach. The only person who understood what he was doing was Larry Brown. So if the players feel that the coach is tanking the season in order to get rid of them anyway how do you think they are going to respond?? Do you think they are going to trust him in his coaching? When they are *thinking* he is purposly putting them in a position to fail so he could get rid of them. Yes he has a track record of turning teams into winners. But do you think players don't know of his track record of trading players away. If it was clear to everyone that the season was stricly about learning fundamentals, and expirementing, and putting players in situations so they could learn from it. Then there would have been way less drama. But it wasn't clear.

Even if it was to teach. Larry Brown did a poor job of making everyone understand that. Which should have been an understanding at the door when Isiah was hiring Brown. That Brown was going to use last season to teach while record shouldn't matter. Which should have then been relayed to the players. So that none of this would come as a suprise to the players.

Okay that's fine. So that of course means that all our players are going to come into camp in shape and play ahrd all year long. The negative influence is gone. The guy that wanted them gone all along is now gone. Fired!! Now they have a coach that wanted them at all costs. So now that we got rid of Larry that means all our players are ready to go. No season is perfect, especially after last year, but I'm assuming that we will have few blips in terms of effort and commitement to the team concept and respect for the coach.

We have all reached the conclusion that our reason for the 23 wins and utter failure was LB. Now he's gone. We may not be good this year. But in terms of effort and lack of complaints we will be a model franchise. Am I wrong here?

Bip.. this is great. Exactly what I have been trying to say.

earl, Holfresh, Ki, ooha, RV, everyone and anyone else from the "this was all Larry's fault" camp can all agree on some of those simple things right?

Curry, JJ and Mo Taylor will all show up to camp in great, NBA basketball shape right?
That Curry and Frye will put a body on a man everytime a shot goes up because thats what good rebounders do right?
That Nate will hustle down court after he hits a shot so he doesnt get beat in transition showing off for the crowd right?
That Nate will pressure the ball because thats what a 5'9 guard should do right?
That Francis will gladly share minutes because its the right thing to do right? Work and earn his floor time.. right?
That a FranBury backcourt will be focused on defense and making the whole team better right?

I mean, now that all the distractions and Larry negativity are gone I'm looking forward to all these things happening. Ive always thought this roster had a lot of talent. Now that nothing is holding them back it should be really interesting to see them take over.

Hoops is fun right Earl?

Posted by BlueSeats:

But a good start, or even a good year, is not out of the question.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by codeunknown:

Some here have done that. But, the LB detractors are no less. Not only did LB throw the season but he tricked his family into moving to New York and buying a house. Scoundrel.

FYI, many Brownies conceede that he threw the season. What is your point about 'tricking' his family into buing a house? He bought a house in a city where he signed a 5 year 60 million dollar contract. He had a house in Michigan too. What is your point?

the hiccup that was lb was under isiah's regime. he can't blame lb b/c he brought in lb. lb's failures is isiah's failures. they are not independant. it was under his regime. so in his first full season, the team won 33 games. in the 2nd season, it won 23 games. the GM during this time? isiah thomas. so we're now onto year three. when he was hired, and you were told the payroll is around $130 mil and after making 40+ transactions, what would you expect this season?

if lb remained, i would expect a pretty big roster overhaul. with that said, i have no idea who would be here or who wouldn't. lb was signed on for 5 years, which meant it was 4-5 year plan. looking at lb as year 1 of the new plan, i would expect the knicks to be challenging for playoffs in year 2 and definitely playoffs/division in year 3 and higher aspirations in year 4.

but lb was fired and blamed. so in essence, he was just a part of year 2 in the isiah plan. so now we're in year 3 of the isiah plan. that's the difference.

and with the players blaming lb. with dolan blaming lb. and with isiah blaming lb and saying "he likes our players and is comfortable with them", let's see what $135 mil gets you.

so to me, no playoffs, no .500, no isiah.

and oohah - 0mph to 100mph is going from 23 wins to 56 wins.

i'm asking for 55mph (speed limit) since many think we should've been going 35mph last season.