[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Coaching in this league may just have passed Larry bye, bye..
Author Thread
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

4/5/2006  11:26 AM
I disagree the assertion that Brown hasn't attempted to adapt to the players. Most people who say that mean that we should be running MORE, but please remember that Brown started the season with Steph advancing the ball MUCH FASTER than last year or now, but we were averaging like 30 TOs per game!!! Guys like Frye and AD told Larry that the PGs, instead of running set plays and settling things down, were making up plays and everyone was getting confused. Then because we were out of position we also weren't able to transition defense when the inevitable TOs turned into opponent fastbreaks.

Check this out from Oct. 20th (preseason)
Brown again acknowledged it will take time for the players to learn his system, but he seemed to indicate it might take longer than he first assumed. While the team is learning how to play defense, he wants them to temporarily play a more deliberate half-court offense in order to slow the game down and prevent teams from scoring 114 points, as the Sixers did Tuesday.

He started that process yesterday, which he doesn't like to do because he likes to run the ball at the defense as much as possible. But after watching Tuesday's game, he came to the realization that the team isn't learning what he has been teaching.


Then here we are again in mid Novemeber:
Brown lamented the Knicks' lack of organization on offense and pointed out that even a rookie like Channing Frye could see it going helter skelter. Brown said Frye approached him at the airport after Wednesday's loss and said, "Coach, it's amazing. When things get tough, instead of us slowing it down and executing to get a good set, very rarely do we get in good position to run a play."

Brown has become so uncertain about what his players can do, that he said he will pare down the Knicks' playbook to just a handful of sets. He already has taken to calling plays from the bench, something he hates doing, and on fastbreak opportunities he will limit them to two options.

In practice, before games and in timeouts, Brown has been hammering home his most basic tenets in the hope that repetition will lead to execution.

"If you say it a hundred times, you've got to say it a thousand times until they get it," he said. "I want to be specific so there's no indecision at all. That's what I told them again today. We're going to limit the things we do."


So Larry slowed things down and simplified the playbook, and to explain why he noted someone didn't even know where the shot clock was and that he didn't have "heads" out there.

Some have used those comments to justify the unforgivable behavior of quitters, but in fact he was explaining why he needed to dumb down to a Junior Varsity playbook.

That WAS him adapting to his players. Make it slow, make it simple, try to get them to handle the basics, then take things back up. But they've NEVER gotten the basics.

Thus, just days ago we hear him talking of simplifying things even further still, like walking the ball up every play or going to zone defense. None of that is Larry Brown ball, those are LB's adaptations to ineptitude.
AUTOADVERT
joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  12:16 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Dude I 'm not going to argue about why Butler shouldn't be startting...


You didn't do it the first time, so I really didn't have high expectations you'd do it now.
~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:


Dude I 'm not going to argue about why Butler shouldn't be startting...


You didn't do it the first time, so I really didn't have high expectations you'd do it now.



Bro, he's 3rd string..

joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  12:34 PM
And when he gets the time he rebounds more, defends better (that isn't saying alot) and blocks more shots than Curry....Does that make Curry 2nd string?
~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  12:52 PM
Posted by joec32033:

And when he gets the time he rebounds more, defends better (that isn't saying alot) and blocks more shots than Curry....Does that make Curry 2nd string?

The guy a an adequate player, he does not have the physical tools to take it to the next level..Curry does.....So yeah, you can put Butler in there and get 12 pts 8 rebs and no D to prove a point to Curry and lose...Or you can have Curry in there trying to develop into the monster he has shown flashes that he may be....I don't know much but I'll go the Curry route...

joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  12:57 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:

And when he gets the time he rebounds more, defends better (that isn't saying alot) and blocks more shots than Curry....Does that make Curry 2nd string?

The guy a an adequate player, he does not have the physical tools to take it to the next level..Curry does.....So yeah, you can put Butler in there and get 12 pts 8 rebs and no D to prove a point to Curry and lose...Or you can have Curry in there trying to develop into the monster he has shown flashes that he may be....I don't know much but I'll go the Curry route...


And Curry seems to understand one thing...based on exactly what you just said, Curry will never have to actually try to be anything more than he is. It is more about teaching a lesson than anything else. Give the spot to Jackie, make Curry earn it. Butler has paid his dues-at least more dues than Curry- and is hungry. Curry isn't. Curry will coast the rest of his career if he is not taught that he needs to work.
~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:07 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:

And when he gets the time he rebounds more, defends better (that isn't saying alot) and blocks more shots than Curry....Does that make Curry 2nd string?

The guy a an adequate player, he does not have the physical tools to take it to the next level..Curry does.....So yeah, you can put Butler in there and get 12 pts 8 rebs and no D to prove a point to Curry and lose...Or you can have Curry in there trying to develop into the monster he has shown flashes that he may be....I don't know much but I'll go the Curry route...


And Curry seems to understand one thing...based on exactly what you just said, Curry will never have to actually try to be anything more than he is. It is more about teaching a lesson than anything else. Give the spot to Jackie, make Curry earn it. Butler has paid his dues-at least more dues than Curry- and is hungry. Curry isn't. Curry will coast the rest of his career if he is not taught that he needs to work.



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....What I have seen over the last weeks has been very positive..I still think players make the most improvement in the offseason...Lets give the guy the benefit of a doubt and see what we have next year..What do we have to lose? Bulter is not the future..We could have a monster on our hands but you guys are so ready to serve him Larry's bitter me medicine...

joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  1:17 PM
Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....What I have seen over the last weeks has been very positive..I still think players make the most improvement in the offseason...Lets give the guy the benefit of a doubt and see what we have next year..What do we have to lose? Bulter is not the future..We could have a monster on our hands but you guys are so ready to serve him Larry's bitter me medicine...

Noo...I am not saying to trade him...yet...I am saying to teach him he has to work. Curry still doesn't rebound, block or defend. All things we need from our "franchise" center. Butler does all 3 better, thus making him a better fit in this philosophy. All I am saying is Curry needs to develop parts of his game and he doesn't seem want to work on them. Force him to.
~You can't run from who you are.~
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
4/5/2006  1:26 PM
Posted by holfresh:



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....


this is what made this trade all the more terrible.

I see you don't want to hold him accountable for his weight and playing shape despite it being a problem in all but 1 of his pro seasons (his contract year) but the statement about "what goes through his mind" is the one that is to the detriment of everything sane moral and professional involving this trade.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:26 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....What I have seen over the last weeks has been very positive..I still think players make the most improvement in the offseason...Lets give the guy the benefit of a doubt and see what we have next year..What do we have to lose? Bulter is not the future..We could have a monster on our hands but you guys are so ready to serve him Larry's bitter me medicine...

Noo...I am not saying to trade him...yet...I am saying to teach him he has to work. Curry still doesn't rebound, block or defend. All things we need from our "franchise" center. Butler does all 3 better, thus making him a better fit in this philosophy. All I am saying is Curry needs to develop parts of his game and he doesn't seem want to work on them. Force him to.



He does not do all 3 better..If that was the case I would be the first to say start him....He is not a better shot blocker...Curry is dominant in the post and gets fouled 50 percent of the time...

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....


this is what made this trade all the more terrible.

I see you don't want to hold him accountable for his weight and playing shape despite it being a problem in all but 1 of his pro seasons (his contract year) but the statement about "what goes through his mind" is the one that is to the detriment of everything sane moral and professional involving this trade.



What are you talking about...I'll do that trade today again....Sweets look even bigger than Curry does and I don't think he plays anymore...Kenny Smith said it best last night...You are looking at a draft of very good bench players...What are the Knicks loosing when the upside is so huge..



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-05-2006 1:30 PM]
joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  1:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....What I have seen over the last weeks has been very positive..I still think players make the most improvement in the offseason...Lets give the guy the benefit of a doubt and see what we have next year..What do we have to lose? Bulter is not the future..We could have a monster on our hands but you guys are so ready to serve him Larry's bitter me medicine...

Noo...I am not saying to trade him...yet...I am saying to teach him he has to work. Curry still doesn't rebound, block or defend. All things we need from our "franchise" center. Butler does all 3 better, thus making him a better fit in this philosophy. All I am saying is Curry needs to develop parts of his game and he doesn't seem want to work on them. Force him to.



He does not do all 3 better..If that was the case I would be the first to say start him....He is not a better shot blocker...Curry is dominant in the post and gets fouled 50 percent of the time...


In 46 games at 12 mins. per game Butler averages .6 blks, 28 blocks total.
In 63 games at 26 mins. per game Curry averages .8 blks, 49 blocks total.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3514
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3909
~You can't run from who you are.~
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
4/5/2006  1:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....


this is what made this trade all the more terrible.

I see you don't want to hold him accountable for his weight and playing shape despite it being a problem in all but 1 of his pro seasons (his contract year) but the statement about "what goes through his mind" is the one that is to the detriment of everything sane moral and professional involving this trade.



What are you talking about...I'll do that trade today again....Sweets look even bigger than Curry does and I don't think he plays anymore...Kenny Smith said it best last night...You are looking at a draft of very good bench players...What are the Knicks loosing when the upside is so huge..



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-05-2006 1:30 PM]


Alot when he is "thinking about his ailment"
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:34 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....What I have seen over the last weeks has been very positive..I still think players make the most improvement in the offseason...Lets give the guy the benefit of a doubt and see what we have next year..What do we have to lose? Bulter is not the future..We could have a monster on our hands but you guys are so ready to serve him Larry's bitter me medicine...

Noo...I am not saying to trade him...yet...I am saying to teach him he has to work. Curry still doesn't rebound, block or defend. All things we need from our "franchise" center. Butler does all 3 better, thus making him a better fit in this philosophy. All I am saying is Curry needs to develop parts of his game and he doesn't seem want to work on them. Force him to.



He does not do all 3 better..If that was the case I would be the first to say start him....He is not a better shot blocker...Curry is dominant in the post and gets fouled 50 percent of the time...


In 46 games at 12 mins. per game Butler averages .6 blks, 28 blocks total.
In 63 games at 26 mins. per game Curry averages .8 blks, 49 blocks total.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3514
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3909



Dude, Curry plays the best centers and Butler plays mostly garbage time...

joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/5/2006  1:36 PM
I see.....screw the stats when they don't prove your point.
~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:38 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....


this is what made this trade all the more terrible.

I see you don't want to hold him accountable for his weight and playing shape despite it being a problem in all but 1 of his pro seasons (his contract year) but the statement about "what goes through his mind" is the one that is to the detriment of everything sane moral and professional involving this trade.



What are you talking about...I'll do that trade today again....Sweets look even bigger than Curry does and I don't think he plays anymore...Kenny Smith said it best last night...You are looking at a draft of very good bench players...What are the Knicks loosing when the upside is so huge..



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-05-2006 1:30 PM]


Alot when he is "thinking about his ailment"



It's only human, anyone one would think about it...But he finally looks to be over it and is now in shape...centers don't grow on trees...give the guy a break...Geez..its you team and we only look for all the bad sh t that can go down...This guy could possibly be a monster for us for the next 10 years....Who cares if we sacrifice Sweets and a bench player for that chance....



McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
4/5/2006  1:38 PM
and for the record:

Sweets isn't diagnosed with that ailment and since Skiles remembered he had Mike on their roster Bulls are 5-2 and have moved within a 1/2 game of the 8th and final spot.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
4/5/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:





It's only human, anyone one would think about it...But he finally looks to be over it and is now in shape...centers don't grow on trees...give the guy a break...Geez..its you team and we only look for all the bad sh t that can go down...This guy could possibly be a monster for us for the next 10 years....Who cares if we sacrifice Sweets and a bench player for that chance....




finally looks to be over it?

his track record thus far in his career is he plays well towards the end of the season...when he is finally in shape

swetney looked like he could possibly be a monster as well.

you don't trade 2 starters & 4 picks for someone that could possibly be a monster and definitely not for a possible monster with an ailment that can further limit the amount of energy and effort he exerts!

more substance pal, more substance

[Edited by - McK1 on 04-05-2006 1:42 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 04-05-2006 1:43 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/5/2006  1:44 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:



Curry had not worked out in 8 months prior to joining the Knicks...Coupled with his heart ailment...Curry just seems to have gained confidence and gain shape the last few weeks...You have to give the guy some slack...This is a heart issue, think of what must be going through his mind when he is pushing his fitness limits....


this is what made this trade all the more terrible.

I see you don't want to hold him accountable for his weight and playing shape despite it being a problem in all but 1 of his pro seasons (his contract year) but the statement about "what goes through his mind" is the one that is to the detriment of everything sane moral and professional involving this trade.


good point...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/5/2006  1:45 PM


You guys kill me...He reduces his turnovers, his stupid fouls, and continues to past the ball out of the post...giving him more playing time then we have a monster....These things are doable..It's so close, i can't understand why you guys can't be encourage by this...Thats the definition of being a fan...

Coaching in this league may just have passed Larry bye, bye..

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy