Knickoftime wrote:

gr33d wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article108682032.html

I am sure you will attack the writer and not the content of what is written.

Also someone claimed that no security secrets have been exposed - not true. In the leaks there is evidence of US assets abroad were mentioned by name. Some of what was said in speeches to wall street, are considered to be National Security leaks also. BTW you all know that BO emailed HRC to the same account right? Perhaps that is the reason, everything is being swept under the rug? IT goes up the highest level.

If Wikileaks was dumping on DJT most of you would be all for it.

What about CNN saying it is illegal for people to read them??!!! Only journalists can! Ha! This is because the truth is getting out and they refuse to even report on it. False claims and words are talked about non-stop. This is all intended to mislead the masses and it is working.

Before you attack me for being for DJT, let's be clear that I am not. I am against the corruption of all kinds and the abuse of power that is going on and being exposed.

Those following the idiocy of Trump are being misled purposely. Don't take your eyes off the ball.

The media manipulation is very high. Now they want to control what we can see and read. We need to start to include the media in the checks and balance dept. it's obvious it has become the other branch of the government.

I'm at the point where the debate needs to be shown, and thank you for watching the debate end right there with no two cents thrown in by anyone. Let the public formulate an opinion.

This sounds an awful lot to me like someone dissatisfied with the 1st amendment and wants to see it amended.

Yes/no?

How, when and what's reported all have a direct impact on votes... Imposing (improved) contribution limits by anyone connected to media outlets would be a step in the right direction.

Removes or at the very least, curbs the idea that high dollar donors have an unfair advantage in terms of media coverage.

As someone who believes Citizen's United should be overturned and endorses comprehensive campaign finance reform, I can get on board with that.

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit; this is on the list of things you can only shake your head at...

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Honestly, I've lost the chain of thought regarding our discussion. It has gone all over the place.
When I make a fair point or answer a question, you just jump to what is wrong with something I've said.

Perhaps it's because I dispute your point are fair, and instead of just carpet bombing the thread with unsubstantiated declarations of my personal opinion, I'm explaining why your points aren't fair.

I'm not surprised it hard to keep track, because there is no objective grounding to your "points"... all they are is again, intellectual nihilism. All you seem to believe are conspiracy-driven Youtube videos.

Time and time again, I make valid points and you just jump over them. You attack what you think is the weakest. You leave most behind.

I think logic and deduction are important and central to this debate, but when you go to the "Well, she wasn't convicted." argument, while leaving valid points behind, now you create an argument based on your standards. Again - Al Capone was only a tax evader.

And this is exactly why I make a habit of quoting every specific point I respond to, so this doesn't happen. Or at least there is no excuse for it.

I have never once responded "well, she wasn't convicted." I haven't ever implied anything like it. I haven't even engaged you in ANY discussion or retort about Hillary Clinton at all.

And this is demonstrative of the problem I've identified. Lack of an objective grounding. You're just repeating a overarching POV (rather than facts or data) in absence of any context.

And why you make a habbit of skipping over any points of relevance. Seems like the Hillary supporters often mention the "conviction" thing, if you didn't say it, no big deal.

What do you think of Hillary accepting 25 million from Saudi Arabia?
What does your heart say? Your mind is extremely clear.

See posts from Bonn and myself. Now it appears you are grasping for anything that casts doubt and shade on her. Whatever their motives they generate a massive amount of money for philanthropy. You are really whiffing here and its becoming apparent you have no interest in truth. Cmon man

Sorry bro, I forget, it's all about Donald Trump Bashing and his incorrect (and rude) use of the word Pu$$y.

What is 25 million accepted from a terrorist organization? Yeah, it would just be someone else.
And it would be another country abusing woman, homosexuals, etc.
And it is old news, not like Trumps 11 year old saying of... oh wait.

Looks like Clinton supporters are guiding things...

Curious though, what does your heart say?

Did you read my post? Hillary did NOT accept money from these countries and did NOT take one penny from them.

What money? Clintons do not need any money... they already have enough.
Not sure why this bunch of lairs has more respect that Trump bunch.
In my books they can all go hell together.
I have my own view of the world and do not want anybody or everybody to force any of theirs on me.
So I think in this respect Trump is exactly what I want to see running for president.
He is the symptom of change. Most likely he does not know it and it is not his intentions by any means.
But the change is needed badly and it will manifest itself if we want it or not.
The way the dictatorship of "political correctness" and "pretensions morality" went will not end good for the country.
We need to heal our-self from this terrible illness and this elections are very good shock therapy to start the heeling process.

Trump is for change??..What change are you referring to because a lot of his proposals are like previous republicans..Cut tax for the rich and put troops on the ground in Iraq..Scap Obamacare and war with Iran..Arrogance in the Oval offic..What change are you seeing that I'm not seeing?? Bromance with Putin??

The only thing different is he says he will bring jobs back which is impossible..That's total nonsense..Those industries are long gone..Coal is dead..

Change of the attitude is the biggest change.
Everybody are tired of lies and empty promises from both Reps and Dems.
Trump is not a solution but him being supported by 37% of voters is a sign of things to come.
Everyone with this warmed up little pony place in "the system" should start looking for real work to do.
The politicians and establishments are so irrelevant that it is not even funny.

Knickoftime wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Honestly, I've lost the chain of thought regarding our discussion. It has gone all over the place.
When I make a fair point or answer a question, you just jump to what is wrong with something I've said.

Perhaps it's because I dispute your point are fair, and instead of just carpet bombing the thread with unsubstantiated declarations of my personal opinion, I'm explaining why your points aren't fair.

I'm not surprised it hard to keep track, because there is no objective grounding to your "points"... all they are is again, intellectual nihilism. All you seem to believe are conspiracy-driven Youtube videos.

Time and time again, I make valid points and you just jump over them. You attack what you think is the weakest. You leave most behind.

I think logic and deduction are important and central to this debate, but when you go to the "Well, she wasn't convicted." argument, while leaving valid points behind, now you create an argument based on your standards. Again - Al Capone was only a tax evader.

And this is exactly why I make a habit of quoting every specific point I respond to, so this doesn't happen. Or at least there is no excuse for it.

I have never once responded "well, she wasn't convicted." I haven't ever implied anything like it. I haven't even engaged you in ANY discussion or retort about Hillary Clinton at all.

And this is demonstrative of the problem I've identified. Lack of an objective grounding. You're just repeating a overarching POV (rather than facts or data) in absence of any context.

And why you make a habbit of skipping over any points of relevance. Seems like the Hillary supporters often mention the "conviction" thing, if you didn't say it, no big deal.

What do you think of Hillary accepting 25 million from Saudi Arabia?
What does your heart say? Your mind is extremely clear.

See posts from Bonn and myself. Now it appears you are grasping for anything that casts doubt and shade on her. Whatever their motives they generate a massive amount of money for philanthropy. You are really whiffing here and its becoming apparent you have no interest in truth. Cmon man

Sorry bro, I forget, it's all about Donald Trump Bashing and his incorrect (and rude) use of the word Pu$$y.

What is 25 million accepted from a terrorist organization? Yeah, it would just be someone else.
And it would be another country abusing woman, homosexuals, etc.
And it is old news, not like Trumps 11 year old saying of... oh wait.

Looks like Clinton supporters are guiding things...

Curious though, what does your heart say?

Did you read my post? Hillary did NOT accept money from these countries and did NOT take one penny from them.

What money? Clintons do not need any money... they already have enough.
Not sure why this bunch of lairs has more respect that Trump bunch.
In my books they can all go hell together.
I have my own view of the world and do not want anybody or everybody to force any of theirs on me.
So I think in this respect Trump is exactly what I want to see running for president.
He is the symptom of change. Most likely he does not know it and it is not his intentions by any means.
But the change is needed badly and it will manifest itself if we want it or not.
The way the dictatorship of "political correctness" and "pretensions morality" went will not end good for the country.
We need to heal our-self from this terrible illness and this elections are very good shock therapy to start the heeling process.

Trump is for change??..What change are you referring to because a lot of his proposals are like previous republicans..Cut tax for the rich and put troops on the ground in Iraq..Scap Obamacare and war with Iran..Arrogance in the Oval offic..What change are you seeing that I'm not seeing?? Bromance with Putin??

The only thing different is he says he will bring jobs back which is impossible..That's total nonsense..Those industries are long gone..Coal is dead..

Change of the attitude is the biggest change.
Everybody are tired of lies and empty promises from both Reps and Dems.
Trump is not a solution but him being supported by 37% of voters is a sign of things to come.
Everyone with this warmed up little pony place in "the system" should start looking for real work to do.
The politicians and establishments are so irrelevant that it is not even funny.

Sorry Akrud, your math is wrong.

If Trump had 37% of support independent of baked-in Republican support, he'd win in a landslide. That vast majority of that 37% is people who would only vote Republican in any circumstance, people who are holding their nose while supporting him because they are republican zealots.

What small, single percentage of Trump-only supporters that may or may not exist are likely not sophisticated and intelligent enough to organize following defeat.

If people want to already start declaring the vague platitude of "just wait" as their consolation prize 3 weeks before the election, no rational argument is going to convince them otherwise ... so enjoy.

See ya in 2020 I guess. Say hello to the Tea Party in meantime.

Bonn1997 wrote:New polls are looking very good. Monmouth has Hillary at 50, Trump 38, Johnson 5, Stein 2. When you get to 50% in a field of four candidates, that's impressive.

You won't find any argument by me that the majority of any sector of the electorate are high information voters, but the striking thing about Trump's "strategy" (parroted here) that the media is to blame is to propagate low-information talking points.

The statistical models quite clearly demonstrate Trump has done more harm to himself than good.

Trump choose the words that have hounded him with the general electorate at his announcement press conference.

Trump completely unsolicited went off on the 20 min rant at a rally about Judge Curiel.

Then as we got closer to the general stretch run, his campaign chose the tenor of his own convention. His speech and Guiliani's and Christie's were not media creations.

The Khan family thing from the Dem convention would have been a one social media cycle throwaway if Trump (certainly against the advice of anyone surrounding him) didn't engage.

His first debate performance was watched and judged unfiltered by 88m people, and he was awful. Then he chose to engage in the Machado thing (which probably would have played like Clinton was trying too hard) if he could have just kept himself from engaging for another week after.

He did himself no favors in the second debate.

EVERY single flashpoint in this cycle, when you can see the tangible movement in the polls, were entirely self-inflicted wounds.

He isn't going to lose this race because of the media, he's going to lose this race because he's Donald trump.

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:New polls are looking very good. Monmouth has Hillary at 50, Trump 38, Johnson 5, Stein 2. When you get to 50% in a field of four candidates, that's impressive.

You won't find any argument by me that the majority of any sector of the electorate are high information voters, but the striking thing about Trump's "strategy" (parroted here) that the media is to blame is to propagate low-information talking points.

The statistical models quite clearly demonstrate Trump has done more harm to himself than good.

Trump choose the words that have hounded him with the general electorate at his announcement press conference.

Trump completely unsolicited went off on the 20 min rant at a rally about Judge Curiel.

Then as we got closer to the general stretch run, his campaign chose the tenor of his own convention. His speech and Guiliani's and Christie's were not media creations.

The Khan family thing from the Dem convention would have been a one social media cycle throwaway if Trump (certainly against the advice of anyone surrounding him) didn't engage.

His first debate performance was watched and judged unfiltered by 88m people, and he was awful. Then he chose to engage in the Machado thing (which probably would have played like Clinton was trying too hard) if he could have just kept himself from engaging for another week after.

He did himself no favors in the second debate.

EVERY single flashpoint in this cycle, when you can see the tangible movement in the polls, were entirely self-inflicted wounds.

He isn't going to lose this race because of the media, he's going to lose this race because he's Donald trump.

Trump is a desperate train wreck. Four years from now Trump supporters will be viewed the same as those who tried to convince us in 2008 that Sarah Palin would be a great VP and could handle the top spot if something happened to McCain. How do those people look now in 2016?

earthmansurfer wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/788123233442824192

Let's see if this starts breaking, pretty big for Trump to come out and make a video about the collusioin between FBI, State Dept and Hillary. Word is getting out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-video-fbi-documents-hillary-clinton-2016-10?international=true&r=US&IR=T

Did he think the system was rigged when he didn't have to pay federal taxes for two decades while the rest of us schmucks had to??

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

fishmike wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Honestly, I've lost the chain of thought regarding our discussion. It has gone all over the place.
When I make a fair point or answer a question, you just jump to what is wrong with something I've said.

Perhaps it's because I dispute your point are fair, and instead of just carpet bombing the thread with unsubstantiated declarations of my personal opinion, I'm explaining why your points aren't fair.

I'm not surprised it hard to keep track, because there is no objective grounding to your "points"... all they are is again, intellectual nihilism. All you seem to believe are conspiracy-driven Youtube videos.

Time and time again, I make valid points and you just jump over them. You attack what you think is the weakest. You leave most behind.

I think logic and deduction are important and central to this debate, but when you go to the "Well, she wasn't convicted." argument, while leaving valid points behind, now you create an argument based on your standards. Again - Al Capone was only a tax evader.

And this is exactly why I make a habit of quoting every specific point I respond to, so this doesn't happen. Or at least there is no excuse for it.

I have never once responded "well, she wasn't convicted." I haven't ever implied anything like it. I haven't even engaged you in ANY discussion or retort about Hillary Clinton at all.

And this is demonstrative of the problem I've identified. Lack of an objective grounding. You're just repeating a overarching POV (rather than facts or data) in absence of any context.

And why you make a habbit of skipping over any points of relevance. Seems like the Hillary supporters often mention the "conviction" thing, if you didn't say it, no big deal.

What do you think of Hillary accepting 25 million from Saudi Arabia?
What does your heart say? Your mind is extremely clear.

See posts from Bonn and myself. Now it appears you are grasping for anything that casts doubt and shade on her. Whatever their motives they generate a massive amount of money for philanthropy. You are really whiffing here and its becoming apparent you have no interest in truth. Cmon man

Sorry bro, I forget, it's all about Donald Trump Bashing and his incorrect (and rude) use of the word Pu$$y.

What is 25 million accepted from a terrorist organization? Yeah, it would just be someone else.
And it would be another country abusing woman, homosexuals, etc.
And it is old news, not like Trumps 11 year old saying of... oh wait.

Looks like Clinton supporters are guiding things...

Curious though, what does your heart say?

Did you read my post? Hillary did NOT accept money from these countries and did NOT take one penny from them.

What money? Clintons do not need any money... they already have enough.
Not sure why this bunch of lairs has more respect that Trump bunch.
In my books they can all go hell together.
I have my own view of the world and do not want anybody or everybody to force any of theirs on me.
So I think in this respect Trump is exactly what I want to see running for president.
He is the symptom of change. Most likely he does not know it and it is not his intentions by any means.
But the change is needed badly and it will manifest itself if we want it or not.
The way the dictatorship of "political correctness" and "pretensions morality" went will not end good for the country.
We need to heal our-self from this terrible illness and this elections are very good shock therapy to start the heeling process.

Trump is for change??..What change are you referring to because a lot of his proposals are like previous republicans..Cut tax for the rich and put troops on the ground in Iraq..Scap Obamacare and war with Iran..Arrogance in the Oval offic..What change are you seeing that I'm not seeing?? Bromance with Putin??

The only thing different is he says he will bring jobs back which is impossible..That's total nonsense..Those industries are long gone..Coal is dead..

Change of the attitude is the biggest change.
Everybody are tired of lies and empty promises from both Reps and Dems.
Trump is not a solution but him being supported by 37% of voters is a sign of things to come.
Everyone with this warmed up little pony place in "the system" should start looking for real work to do.
The politicians and establishments are so irrelevant that it is not even funny.

Sorry Akrud, your math is wrong.

If Trump had 37% of support independent of baked-in Republican support, he'd win in a landslide. That vast majority of that 37% is people who would only vote Republican in any circumstance, people who are holding their nose while supporting him because they are republican zealots.

What small, single percentage of Trump-only supporters that may or may not exist are likely not sophisticated and intelligent enough to organize following defeat.

If people want to already start declaring the vague platitude of "just wait" as their consolation prize 3 weeks before the election, no rational argument is going to convince them otherwise ... so enjoy.

See ya in 2020 I guess. Say hello to the Tea Party in meantime.

I absolutely will wait because I want both Dems and Reps to be defeated.
They both worthless. And both Trump and Hilary are worthless 10-fold.