knickscity wrote:Didn't leBron take trash to the finals and win double 60+ games with the same trash that won the lotto the next year?

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

So, you dont know how to take a mian idea out of a post? Why not discuss LeBron being on a different level than the other two?

Address what was said, not what you wanted to be said.

LeBron on "another level" when compared to Melo and Durant? Wrong. I grew up during the early 90's of NBA basketball and Michael Jordan was on another level when compared to the elite. Not LeBron James.

How many years did it take LeBron to win an NBA championship? Has LeBron ever won an NBA championship during a full NBA season and/or anything other than a shortened season? Did LeBron not join forces with both Wade and Bosh in order to win a championship?

An overall better basketball player when compared to CP3, Melo and Durant? Yes. He's a physical freak. On another level when compared to CP3, Durant and Melo? Not a freaking chance.

I would go as far to say durant and lebron are close.... carmelo is not on their planet bro.... for real...

Yeah, you would only find a post like his on a Knicks' forum, and even then, only from a poster whose views are on the fringe. Maybe off the fringe would be more accurate.

Just a quick question, what does 1997 mean in your user name Bonn?

If you want to be honest about players be honest

knickscity wrote:The guy who admits he started watching ball in the 90's asks another poster what their name means?

Dude your argument is wack.

Think back to all the missed open 3's against Miami last year by JR, Fields, Novak, Douglas etc. The one game we won Mike Bibby went off from 3

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:The guy who admits he started watching ball in the 90's asks another poster what their name means?

Dude your argument is wack.

I guess he thought I joined here when I was 6 or 7!

meanwhile i expect another essay in this thread coming up.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:The guy who admits he started watching ball in the 90's asks another poster what their name means?

Dude your argument is wack.

I guess he thought I joined here when I was 6 or 7!

Guess so, that's mentality for ya.

meanwhile i expect another essay in this thread coming up.

I hope not. This is not the place for essays on Melo. It's the other games thread

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think the Melo Harden stuff is bogus but ok less go. Harden has not shown the ability to be elite defenders consistantly let alone elite defenses to stop him. Maybe he will but untill then he is a notch below Melo and to call someone with so many offensive deficiencies complete is bogus. Let alone someone who doesn't play good D. Great he gets steals but he is a bad help defender and man defender now.

If you want to be honest about players be honest

Harden has yet to show he can be a consistent #1 option, gotta at least gauge him after one year.

Oh I am and have no problem doing it but to say he is as good as players who have done it id not right. That includes Rondo,Westbrook, and others.

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think the Melo Harden stuff is bogus but ok less go. Harden has not shown the ability to be elite defenders consistantly let alone elite defenses to stop him. Maybe he will but untill then he is a notch below Melo and to call someone with so many offensive deficiencies complete is bogus. Let alone someone who doesn't play good D. Great he gets steals but he is a bad help defender and man defender now.

If you want to be honest about players be honest

Harden has yet to show he can be a consistent #1 option, gotta at least gauge him after one year.

Oh I am and have no problem doing it but to say he is as good as players who have done it id not right. That includes Rondo,Westbrook, and others.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think the Melo Harden stuff is bogus but ok less go. Harden has not shown the ability to be elite defenders consistantly

That sounds like an empty statement. Can you provide relevant evidence comparing him and Melo there?

Not on my computer and have papers to turn in but I'll try to get back to u. I say try loosely because I'm incline to let it go once time has pass.

But going off memory name an good defender Harden has got the best of this year? Same for Melo.

I'd have to scroll through their game logs. I don't place much emphasis on small samples, though, and you're not going to find big samples for individual matchups. So it's not really the kind of question that interests me.

Sample sizes again. The old tried and true. Ahh you think sample size is your ally. You have only adopted sample size. I was born in it. Molded by it. What a best friend. j/k

So there is no reason to talk up Harden as a franchise player because of the sample size being to low. Case close right?