Special Franchise Players:
Lebron
Durant
Paul

Franchise Players:
Harden
Melo
Rose
Rondo
Wade
Westbrook

Then you have lesser franchise players and "allstars"

gunsnewing wrote:I agree with Bonn about Lebron, Durant and Paul being Tier 1. Duncan, KG, and Kobe used to be tier 1 but they are older now and declining.

Right now I would put Harden, Melo, Rose, Rondo, Wade and possibly Westbrook in tier 2.

possibly westbrook? honestly, behind harden and wade westbrook may be the best in that tier 2 and I am not a big westbrook fan...rondo is also close.. a healthy derrick rose is tier one IMO.... rose is a force!!

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I agree with Bonn about Lebron, Durant and Paul being Tier 1. Duncan, KG, and Kobe used to be tier 1 but they are older now and declining.

Right now I would put Harden, Melo, Rose, Rondo, Wade and possibly Westbrook in tier 2.

possibly westbrook? honestly, behind harden and wade westbrook may be the best in that tier 2 and I am not a big westbrook fan...rondo is also close.. a healthy derrick rose is tier one IMO.... rose is a force!!

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

I think what would really help your arguments is if you are just realistic about carmelo.. plain and simple.. he is not on the level of lebron, durant,paul or even derrick rose... and he is falling behind those young guys who most feel are tier two players... I am not letting his volume shooting and scoring this year fool me.. I have seen this before.... and we all know what carmelo is.... no need to fool yourself.. if you are a fan of his, fine, but keeping things in perspective is key here.... you keep saying melo has led us to the #2 seed.. that is so presumptuous.. the season is far from over and we have 3 teams breathing down our necks!!!

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I agree with Bonn about Lebron, Durant and Paul being Tier 1. Duncan, KG, and Kobe used to be tier 1 but they are older now and declining.

Right now I would put Harden, Melo, Rose, Rondo, Wade and possibly Westbrook in tier 2.

possibly westbrook? honestly, behind harden and wade westbrook may be the best in that tier 2 and I am not a big westbrook fan...rondo is also close.. a healthy derrick rose is tier one IMO.... rose is a force!!

Don't think the Bulls will ever go all the way with Rose leading the charge. They have not been successful in the playoffs. And I'm not even talking about when they play the Heat

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

So, you dont know how to take a mian idea out of a post? Why not discuss LeBron being on a different level than the other two?

Address what was said, not what you wanted to be said.

LeBron on "another level" when compared to Melo and Durant? Wrong. I grew up during the early 90's of NBA basketball and Michael Jordan was on another level when compared to the elite. Not LeBron James.

How many years did it take LeBron to win an NBA championship? Has LeBron ever won an NBA championship during a full NBA season and/or anything other than a shortened season? Did LeBron not join forces with both Wade and Bosh in order to win a championship?

An overall better basketball player when compared to CP3, Melo and Durant? Yes. He's a physical freak. On another level when compared to CP3, Durant and Melo? Not a freaking chance.

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

So, you dont know how to take a mian idea out of a post? Why not discuss LeBron being on a different level than the other two?

Address what was said, not what you wanted to be said.

LeBron on "another level" when compared to Melo and Durant? Wrong. I grew up during the early 90's of NBA basketball and Michael Jordan was on another level when compared to the elite. Not LeBron James.

How many years did it take LeBron to win an NBA championship? Has LeBron ever won an NBA championship during a full NBA season and/or anything other than a shortened season? Did LeBron not join forces with both Wade and Bosh in order to win a championship?

An overall better basketball player when compared to CP3, Melo and Durant? Yes. He's a physical freak. On another level when compared to CP3, Durant and Melo? Not a freaking chance.

I would go as far to say durant and lebron are close.... carmelo is not on their planet bro.... for real...

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

So, you dont know how to take a mian idea out of a post? Why not discuss LeBron being on a different level than the other two?

Address what was said, not what you wanted to be said.

LeBron on "another level" when compared to Melo and Durant? Wrong. I grew up during the early 90's of NBA basketball and Michael Jordan was on another level when compared to the elite. Not LeBron James.

How many years did it take LeBron to win an NBA championship? Has LeBron ever won an NBA championship during a full NBA season and/or anything other than a shortened season? Did LeBron not join forces with both Wade and Bosh in order to win a championship?

An overall better basketball player when compared to CP3, Melo and Durant? Yes. He's a physical freak. On another level when compared to CP3, Durant and Melo? Not a freaking chance.

But in this day LeBron is the best...it's not close.

tkf wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

knickscity wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

3G4G wrote:Rockets went from the most prolific offense to the worst offense in the matter of 2weeks...SHEESH they look brutal right about now....

Houston's now on a 7 game losing streak with Jeremy Lin as their starting PG. The starting PG position is a position of leadership. And Jeremy Lin is currently failing in Houston. Only 9 points after shooting 4/12 against the Hornets, along with 5 Turnovers to make it even worse? An awful, more like a horrible 2/13 shooting with only 7 points during a 7 point loss against the 76ers? Being out played/performed by a backup in Bledsoe during CP's absence? Being out played by Rondo? Now last night going 3/12 (horrible) with only 12 points against Minny? Only 2 assists when compared to 3 turnovers? Yet another Jeremy Lin/Houston loss. Basketball is a team game yes, but Jeremy Lin himself is a big time reason why Houston's dropped seven consecutive. A big reason why at that.

Jeremy Lin, as a starting PG, has been nothing but mediocre dating back to last season. 6 game losing streak with our Knicks last season followed by already losing 7 consecutive here in 2012-2013. Sat out the entire playoffs. This kid isn't a winner. A below average and/or mediocre record of 36-32 as a starting PG thus far. How about we watch Lin begin to lead his teams to victories, on a consistent basis before talking him up as some type of "must have PG" in which our Knicks front office let walk. And rightfully so too. Especially considering the fact that Houston paid out millions upon millions of dollars for A.) A kid who's never won in this league. B.) Was sleeping on a couch last season and C.) Doesn't deserve and/or never earned the type of money he's currently getting.

My guess tells me, that Houston over paid for a player who's never been a leader, has never shown leadership ability, and will never become a true leader. But yea, it was nice to check the scoreboard and see that both Chicago and Atlanta lost. Just can't get over the fact that Jeremy Lin was made out to be some type of can't miss prospect and/or anything other than a dime a dozen type of NBA career journeyman. No different than Chris Copeland. You put Copeland on another team outside of the Knicks, and ask him to score points, and Copeland would put up buckets as a 28 year old rookie.

If the Rockets continue their losing ways with Lin under control (starting PG), Jeremy Lin himself will be considered one of the most overrated career journeyman of all-time heading into next season. At the age of 24, Lin should be better than this. Much better than this to say the least. Kid's like Kyrie Irving are dropping 23.1 points and 5.7 assists per game at the age of only 20... Please, never let me see someone use Irving and the Cavs as an excuse to Lin's current situation there in Houston.

Houston is 21-21 in the West. What were your expectations of the team at this point?

You also declared that the starting PG position was one of leadership and then equated Lin with a player who is a leader and in a position to win games by himself despite his teams roster; I don't recall those assumptions being right or relevant.

Also, being outplayed by Rondo a devastating matter?

This is Lin's first full season? With a team that is mediocre at best and is 21-21 out west. What were your expectations of him? I don't think they are set right.

excellent point martin.... as i mentioned earlier, with or without harden, the rockets are pretty much exceeding everyone's expectations...

Really, they supposedly got better players than Dragic and Martin yet they are on pace with last year give or take. It's still time to turn it around but that low expectations stuff can go

But they're younger with more cap room. They did what we were always told here was the hard part - get a franchise player - and now just have the easier job of getting a supporting cast.

They did what we were trying to do before adding an uninsured Amare entering his 30s. Where they got it right is they added a 23yr franchise player

bingo!!! they had a plan, stuck to it, were patience and executed.. so far, so good...

Rockets got lucky. Rarely do teams trade 23yr top 5 franchise talent. Kudos to them for going after a start who was masquerading as a 6th man.

More conventional way is to build through high lottery picks. Something the Knicks had a chance at for over a decade and squandered every single time

Yup, Harden doesn't get traded in the first place if it weren't a small market team, plus OKC aint hurting one single bit and looks like they will have a nice lotto pick to add to a contender.

That's where great management comes in.....sell high.

OKC didn't play Harden enough. If they had, people would have realized he was a franchise player. They're fortunate to have gotten as much as they did for him but I think they could have gotten more if everyone knew he was a franchise player at the time. They basically got a lot of unknowns and one known very solid but not outstanding player.

I dont think he is a franchise player, but a very good 2nd fiddle, but the package they got for him was exactly what they wanted, which could be even better depending on that lotto pick.

Houston on the other hand got Harden, both team won in that deal.

Put it this way: He's as much of a franchise player as anyone not named Chris Paul, Lebron James, or Kevin Durant. I could respect an argument that those are the only 3 franchise players in the league though and Harden is in tier 2.

When mentioning LeBron, CP3 and Durant... You forgot one person. Carmelo Anthony.

How many rings do CP3 and Durant have combined? How many years was LeBron in the league before winning his first (and only) ring during a shortened season last year?

To consider Melo as anything other than a franchise player is clueless. Denver missed the postseason during 7/8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Carmelo Anthony. After the drafting of Carmelo Anthony the Nuggets have made the postseason each and every season dating back to Melo's rookie season. Melo changed the culture of Denver's franchise and is without question, an elite franchise player. During Melo's FIRST FULL SEASON here in N.Y? We're the #2 seed and battling for the #1 seed only 1 game out.

Your shots at Melo is becoming pathetic. Question. I see 1997 in your user name. Please don't tell me that's the year you were born in. 1997?

Also, let's not even THINK ABOUT considering Harden as a "franchise player". What has Harden ever done, other than ride both Durant and Westbrook's jock strap? No Harden and OKC is stronger than ever. Harden in Houston? 7 game losing streak and struggling to perform at anything better than .500.

This isn't necessary, certainly didn't warrant bringing the Knicks into it.

When you state that there are "only" 3 franchise players and leave Melo out as a way of bashing Melo... You're damn right I'm going to mention the Knicks. All-Around the NBA thread or not. Denver missed the postseason during 7 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo. They've yet to miss the postseason since the drafting of Melo. This man changed the culture of their franchise as a true franchise player. During Melo's first full season in New York? He's led us to the #2 seed without the help of Shumpert and Stoudemire. Camby and Rasheed has been banged up. But Melo, has still led us to the #2 seed during only his first full season as a Knick.

I'm sorry for going off topic, but no, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when someone claims Melo's not a franchise player by mentioning the likes of CP3, Durant and LeBron.

So, you dont know how to take a mian idea out of a post? Why not discuss LeBron being on a different level than the other two?

Address what was said, not what you wanted to be said.

LeBron on "another level" when compared to Melo and Durant? Wrong. I grew up during the early 90's of NBA basketball and Michael Jordan was on another level when compared to the elite. Not LeBron James.

How many years did it take LeBron to win an NBA championship? Has LeBron ever won an NBA championship during a full NBA season and/or anything other than a shortened season? Did LeBron not join forces with both Wade and Bosh in order to win a championship?

An overall better basketball player when compared to CP3, Melo and Durant? Yes. He's a physical freak. On another level when compared to CP3, Durant and Melo? Not a freaking chance.

I would go as far to say durant and lebron are close.... carmelo is not on their planet bro.... for real...

Yeah, you would only find a post like his on a Knicks' forum, and even then, only from a poster whose views are on the fringe. Maybe off the fringe would be more accurate.