SergioNYK wrote:I was dead wrong after the OGA trade and I hope I'm dead wrong here because I don't really like this trade. There was something pure and cool about having guys on the team who you drafted and now they are mostly all gone. I know Grimes didn't do himself any favors and his passive play at times and that's a big reason why we 'gave up' on him but I thought he was starting to come around with his shot and he took it to the basket a lot more and he always played great defense. I just don't like trading a 23 year old for a 32 and 34 year old.

We've had Burks here recently so we know what we're getting. He was really good for us in 2021. He can get his own shot and handle the ball which we needed. He'll help.

I do think everyone is overreacting a little bit with Bogdanovic. He's 34 and not a traditional Thibs type of player. And where is he going to play? He'll be behind Randle, OGA, Hart and Precious. Do not be surprised if he becomes Fournier on the bench and not playing.

I still think we're a second round team as long as we avoid the cHeat in round one. We can give Boston and Philly (with Embiid) a tough series but we'll be a heavy underdog in either series.

The best part of the trade is def holding onto the 1st round picks and Bogdanovic's salary to use in a trade.

You are not altogether wrong on this one. But in my opinion, probably more wrong than right. I think the statements about this being a windfall gain for the Knicks will be a little shortsighted and off. But I am happy with the trade.

Mechanically, if all they did on the Bogs/Fournier swap was prolong the 18mm of salary cap space filler, then a move of Fournier for Bogs would be validated. But there was cost. That trade costs should have been 1 first. We got that down to two seconds and the upside of Grimes over Burks. Someday.

Now, I think you could argue the Burks/Grimes swap resulted in us getting the better player, but my gut tells me that Grimes continues to develop and becomes the better overall player. Someday.

Now, I'd guess that McBride loses a few more minutes to Burks when everyone is healthy. I figure Bogs will get a shot at the starting PF spot until Randle and/or or OG comes back. Achiuwa will chew up more center minutes until Hart, Robinson and Sims come back.

All in all, I think they added points per minutes and floor spacing while giving up one more year of Grimes rookie scale contract and the RFA rights that come with a rookie scale contract.

The Bogs contract is a partial guaranty next year (2mm).

So, the real question is whether Bogs will be better or worse than Fournier defensively. The bar is not that high, but I have doubts whether Bogs will do better here than Fournier. But he can't possibly do worse.

SergioNYK wrote:I was dead wrong after the OGA trade and I hope I'm dead wrong here because I don't really like this trade. There was something pure and cool about having guys on the team who you drafted and now they are mostly all gone.

blkexec wrote:We got rid of the midgets and brought in some size.

Out
IQ (undersized 2)
Grimes (undersized 3)
Ryan (undersized)
Flynn (small)
RJ (undersized 3/4)
EF (undersized 2/3)
Big brother Obi (played small no lateral quickness)

In
Bogs (tall / good size)
Burks (long with lateral quickness)
OG (great size and lateral quickness)
Deuce (long arms w/ lateral quickness)
Lil Obi (long and agile w/ lateral quickness)
Precious (plays tall with lateral quickness)
Donte (shooter with lateral quickness)

We are no longer a short team. We now have more 2 way players with size and shooting abilities.

If we can somehow get healthy again, the sky is the limit.

If Leon is here for the long haul, I can see the Knicks finally winning a chip in my lifetime.

My bad Leon for anything I’ve said in the past. Outstanding job and GM of the year. Not even close.

On top of that, we have enough picks to get a superstar without sacrificing Jules. I don’t know how ANYBODY can complain right now. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷🤔😉

I give Leon credit for not going for the quick fix. For not doing a complete teardown when he took the job. Kept Perry, didnt have much say, but there was continuity. Perry did the Detroit deal that cleared the cap space for Brunson. Also signed Burks the first time.

I give Leon a lot of credit for deciding that RJ/JB/Randle wasnt going to work in ten years. Found the bargain of the year with DDV. I was wondering if it was just a gimmick, bringing in another Nova grad, but its been anything but that.

Last but not least, I give Leon credit for trying to assemble the best team he can for Brunson to lead. And not waiting another season to do it.

Too many past regimes had teams that were top heavy. Leon has learned from the mistakes of some of his predecessors, and is putting together one of the deepest teams in the league.

Nalod wrote:Credit to Rosas, Zannin, Perrin and Aller who all report to Leon.

Credit to Perry for his hand in what ever he was tasked for.
I don' think they had to "learn from past knick mistakes". They just had to have a plan and process and stick to it.
The mistakes was mostly the way Dolan hired the people who ran the team and his meddling.
I wish Phil would write one more book and include his dealings with Dolan. I have read all his books and he is candid and self evaluating.
Can't imagine Dolan did not put a gag order in his contract or the buy out.

In the end Dolan appears to have gotten this one correct so far. Leon, like Phil never ran a sport franchise let alone was employed by one. Other well respected Agents have stepped in and done well so he followed a trend. That Leon succeeded as head of Basketball at CAA demonstrated organizational skills that seem to be well respected then and now.
No drama and a well respected culture that is producing results.

Maybe more than anyone is Dolan has learned from HIS past mistakes!

Ok let’s start over. Who’s the one person your giving credit to?

I have a hunch based on your post, but wanted to ask first.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1756073563285504472

martin wrote:All the connections

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/_zachblatter/status/1755675115918905618

This is great! Happy Burks is back. Like most, I'll miss Grimes. Very intrigued to see what Bojan brings.

But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.

Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.

OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.

Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.

MaTT4281 wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:obviously we got better.

But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.

Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.

OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.

Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.

Kind of with you on the first point. Youth movement over. But the fit of everyone we've brought in has been tailor made.

I'm all for Donovan at this point (and falling into martin's conspiracy theories), but happy we didn't pull the trigger at the time. Mostly, I think Brunson was able step in, prove his All NBA and leader status, and really take ownership of the team. Leon brought in his buddies and cemented the the current culture.

If we bring in Mitchell at the same time, I think perception is different. He's the star. Not saying Brunson isn't the player he is today, but IDK if we bring in Hart and DDV (chemistry obviously a big role in our success), and guys thinking about joining NY might not recognize him as the MVP candidate he is. Butterfly effect.

Any initial disappointment has gotten lost in the midst of all the winning. I'm happy with the road we're on.

Still think we get Donovan, in no small part because of how much he wants to be here.

I agree and thats the consolation for me. Does Brunson become who he is with DM here? Maybe, maybe not, but the keys would have definitely been given to DM.

Just feels like we should have been able to get a legit star with what we have traded away.

If OG weren't so damn injury prone and about to be an UFA it would make more sense, but this is a guy that has played fewer games than Lavine and KP the past 5 years, so unfortunately him missing alot of games isn't a surprise. And to make matters worse we traded away ironmen that played every game, and availability has been one of our biggest strengths.

Clean wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:obviously we got better.

But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.

Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.

OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.

Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.

Hindsight does not say that at all because Ainge wanted 3 of the 4 players and like 5 1sts plus swaps. We would have had DM and nothing else.

Right.

You need to trade for a player when it’s a convenient exchange of your assets, not when it’s convenient for the other team.

Knicks needed 3 things before coming into this season.

1) Big wing
2) Better depth
3) One more ball handler/closer type.

Got the first 2 and now need #3.

And Knicks loaded up for the playoffs.

It’s a balance.

nycericanguy wrote:obviously we got better.

But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.

Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.

OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.

Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.

You have a point but I'm not sure emptying everything including most of the picks for DM makes us better than we are now. A guy like OG is a necessity with a Brunson/DM backcourt. Especially with another scorer / Randle at the 4.

I think Brunson playing like a legitimate top 10 caliber guy and elite closer may have shifted priorities a little bit. I think they are content going after guys they can get with the picks now, even if it's a player less than Mitchell. I'm not sure Mitchell is even a target at this point. But the closer he gets to his free agency the cheaper he gets in terms of trade value. CLE is still a playoff team without him and we have guys they could use in a trade.

Also, we have so many picks we can make a lot of things happen in a 3 way trade. Just because we don't have a prospect to offer in a trade doesn't mean we can't find one in a 3 way deal.

Would a team built around Brunson/Mitchell/Hart/Randle/iHart be better than the squad we have now, which is the leagues best defense and a borderline top 5 offense to go with it? Looking at a team like Milwaukee, that decided to scrap the defense and chemistry for another star scorer, and now they are much less dangerous overall, I am not convinced adding Mitchell and having scraps to round out the team makes us better than this 10 deep squad.