Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.

Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?

Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.

Issac’s contract is 17mm and partially guaranteed if still on roster by Jan 1st. Low risk. Not sure what he wants but playing behind Bancharo won’t help him start at age 26. Jules is all nBA allstar and would be blocking his minutes….But:

He is 6-11. Maybe time to learn to play the 5 more?
Can back up both the 4 and 5?
And is talented as ****.
But…..over 6 NBA seasons he has played in only 147 games. Missed two entire seasons, played only 11 games this past one.
This is the kind of guy that either goes the way of Olidipo or reconstitutes and earns a new big contract after some durability. He could find a path back to a career on a contending team playing 15-20 minutes.
I haver read he is a big Jesus guy and for all we know he walks away from the pain and non contributory issues that come with being a pro athlete whose body won’t let him play, but……he can preach and find great purpose in religion.
That or signs with the Devil in Miami and sells his soul.

That's a lot cheaper than I thought. Still, I'm thinking paying Josh Hart 18 million is a.safer bet. The other option would be trading Fournier and maybe a protected pick- still there's an even money proposition that the pick would turn into a better player.

Im thinking Issac as a back up 4-5 type if Obi is expendable or part of a desirable trade scenario.

Not sure if this was brought up yet but Isaac is super religious and conservative. Some may not think it SHOULDN’T matter…and I agree…but I’m sure these things get discussed within sports organizations.

You bring up a good point. Charlie Ward:

In 2001, while playing for the Knicks, it was discovered that Ward had made comments about Jews during a Bible-study session, comments that were eventually leaked to the press. Among the comments made: "Jews are stubborn...tell me, why did they persecute Jesus unless He knew something they didn't want to accept...They had His blood on their hands.

There was outrage directed at Ward from Jewish groups, the public, as well as the Knicks organization itself. Ward defended himself by saying "I didn't mean to offend any one group because that's not what I'm about. I have friends that are Jewish. Actually, my friend is a Jewish guy, and his name is Jesus Christ." He also said the quotes were taken out of context, as he stated that "Jews are stubborn" in speaking to what he perceived to be their disinclination to convert to Christianity.[9]

Ward eventually apologized for those statements, with his apology being accepted by the Anti-Defamation League.

Alpha1971 wrote:I shouldn't have to say this but not all Christians are the same. Not even all Evangelicals are the same, not all Catholics are the same. Not all Christians are Mark Jackson, Charlie Ward, or like Jerry Falwell Jr.y family members attend Churches from a spectrum of Protestant Denominations and I'm Catholic, and my wife is Orthodox. Not everyone is like that or close to that.

All very true.
And most are very true to the faith and are not outwardly about it. The business of sports is entertainment and sometimes, and its rare, sticking ones religious neck out and not living up to pronouncements of faith opens up to ridicule.
Google Issac and he has been a positive messenger.
I recall when a very young Dwight Howard made statements of faith then over the years had many children with different women. Personally I don’t care, but it was funny.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Upon reflection, I'd trade RJ and three protected picks for OG. Then sign Watanabe to the BA exception as his OGs back up. Use the MLE for Divenzo. Draft a back up power forward. Trade IQ, Hartenstein, and two first rounders for KP. KP, Randal, OG, Grimes, Brunson. Bench Mitch, Obi, Hart, Divenzo, Deuce. This team to brittle ???

KP isn't realistic until his contract situation gets cleared up. You're looking at $36M next season if he doesn't opt out. And if he does re-sign? It means the Wiz aren't doing a tear down and are likely unwilling to trade KP anytime soon.

Yeah, but KP talk is all the rage right now. What about Vucevic or a trade for Valincunas ? Or do we draft a jump shooting big ?

KP is slow as molasses on D and his attitude stinks. That’s why he and Luka didn’t get along. Let him rot with the wizards or if he is dumb enough to opt out of $36 million guaranteed next year— whatever team is dumb enough to sign him

I have noticed over that you rarely consider a player or person changes. KP got great reviews this past year and stated he is happy in DC.

In any event I don’t see him as a fit here as a center next to Randle. IF Randle was to be traded that is another story. KP had a great season and was healthy. Issue is durability and fit. That would be my concern.
He walked back and apologized for his NY stance might be sincere or just good PR to create a market for his services in the even he hits FA. If he opts in and no extension he is likely traded and won’t be expensive. Question is who wants him at what price.
I’d pass unless the price is right. PHil Jax’s injury concerns proved valid.

Yeah KP has really changed for the better that’s why the mavericks couldn’t wait to get rid of him after trading for him and Mark Cuban publicly gloating just a couple years before about fleecing us. Luka was the perfect pg for him and he was such an asswipe he couldn’t figure out a way to control his own ego to try to get along with the perfect teammate for him while he was getting a $150 million contract with a supportive owner

Look if you want KP back here I think that’s great. Maybe he can stand around like a scarecrow on D and then blame his teammates for the team defense stinking and then he will scream “F-CK YOU” at Thibs during practice after Thibs inevitably chews him out for lack of hustle and intensity on defense. The Coaching Staff and FO get to deal with his idiot brother again while we try to figure out how to spread the ball with 2 ISO ball dominant PFs on the roster. And we get all this goodness for $100+ million guaranteed spread out over 4 years after the sign and trade where we give up assets

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Upon reflection, I'd trade RJ and three protected picks for OG. Then sign Watanabe to the BA exception as his OGs back up. Use the MLE for Divenzo. Draft a back up power forward. Trade IQ, Hartenstein, and two first rounders for KP. KP, Randal, OG, Grimes, Brunson. Bench Mitch, Obi, Hart, Divenzo, Deuce. This team to brittle ???

KP isn't realistic until his contract situation gets cleared up. You're looking at $36M next season if he doesn't opt out. And if he does re-sign? It means the Wiz aren't doing a tear down and are likely unwilling to trade KP anytime soon.

Yeah, but KP talk is all the rage right now. What about Vucevic or a trade for Valincunas ? Or do we draft a jump shooting big ?

KP is slow as molasses on D and his attitude stinks. That’s why he and Luka didn’t get along. Let him rot with the wizards or if he is dumb enough to opt out of $36 million guaranteed next year— whatever team is dumb enough to sign him

I have noticed over that you rarely consider a player or person changes. KP got great reviews this past year and stated he is happy in DC.

In any event I don’t see him as a fit here as a center next to Randle. IF Randle was to be traded that is another story. KP had a great season and was healthy. Issue is durability and fit. That would be my concern.
He walked back and apologized for his NY stance might be sincere or just good PR to create a market for his services in the even he hits FA. If he opts in and no extension he is likely traded and won’t be expensive. Question is who wants him at what price.
I’d pass unless the price is right. PHil Jax’s injury concerns proved valid.

Yeah KP has really changed for the better that’s why the mavericks couldn’t wait to get rid of him after trading for him and Mark Cuban publicly gloating just a couple years before about fleecing us. Luka was the perfect pg for him and he was such an asswipe he couldn’t figure out a way to control his own ego to try to get along with the perfect teammate for him while he was getting a $150 million contract with a supportive owner

Look if you want KP back here I think that’s great. Maybe he can stand around like a scarecrow on D and then blame his teammates for the team defense stinking and then he will scream “F-CK YOU” at Thibs during practice after Thibs inevitably chews him out for lack of hustle and intensity on defense. The Coaching Staff and FO get to deal with his idiot brother again while we try to figure out how to spread the ball with 2 ISO ball dominant PFs on the roster. And we get all this goodness for $100+ million guaranteed spread out over 4 years after the sign and trade where we give up assets

Your tirade lacks factual information even if some of the assertions have merit.

In terms of defense, KP had a stellar year. He is the type of player that alters shots. This shows up in his Defended FG%. Defended Field Goal Percent - The percent that opposing players shoot within three feet against defending player. His DFG this past year is top 10.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall?CF=G*GE*40&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS

Now, I think there are plenty of reasons why he wouldn’t work out here again. His shot chart needs work. It really keeps him from being elite. The coaching staff was able to “fix” Randle to a large degree, but that doesn’t mean they would have the same success with KP.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kristaps-porzingis-shot-chart-career

My recollection was that Janis put some weird thoughts in KP’s head. I don’t get the sense that he has the work ethic, but I can’t back that up specifically. I just haven’t seen the body transformation that take KP from being long player to be being elite pivot. See Jokic, Nikola.

He is now 26 years old. That’s the age we got Ju. So, he’s a bit of a recovery project. I don’t know that he fits perfectly with our existing personnel. I haven’t seen him box out. Pretty much ever. Which doesn’t really work with Thibs philosophy. So, I only see him as a potential replacement for Randle if the Knicks had to give up Randle in another deal.

Even then, I am not sure he is the right fit here. I’d take him over Kuzma who is just a gunslinger. But I’d need to have a plan to fix some of his flaws and see him willing to work on the block. Which then raises his fragility. Can he even bang if he needed to? His body needs work for that.

Nalod wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.

Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?

Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.

Issac’s contract is 17mm and partially guaranteed if still on roster by Jan 1st. Low risk. Not sure what he wants but playing behind Bancharo won’t help him start at age 26. Jules is all nBA allstar and would be blocking his minutes….But:

He is 6-11. Maybe time to learn to play the 5 more?
Can back up both the 4 and 5?
And is talented as ****.
But…..over 6 NBA seasons he has played in only 147 games. Missed two entire seasons, played only 11 games this past one.
This is the kind of guy that either goes the way of Olidipo or reconstitutes and earns a new big contract after some durability. He could find a path back to a career on a contending team playing 15-20 minutes.
I haver read he is a big Jesus guy and for all we know he walks away from the pain and non contributory issues that come with being a pro athlete whose body won’t let him play, but……he can preach and find great purpose in religion.
That or signs with the Devil in Miami and sells his soul.

That's a lot cheaper than I thought. Still, I'm thinking paying Josh Hart 18 million is a.safer bet. The other option would be trading Fournier and maybe a protected pick- still there's an even money proposition that the pick would turn into a better player.

Im thinking Issac as a back up 4-5 type if Obi is expendable or part of a desirable trade scenario.

Not sure if this was brought up yet but Isaac is super religious and conservative. Some may not think it SHOULDN’T matter…and I agree…but I’m sure these things get discussed within sports organizations.

You quoted me and it was in there. It does factor in. The Devoss family who owns the Magic are also but have some very intense Republican views. Remember Secretary of Education under trump: Betsy Devos? They really have rallied and treated Issac very well.

You bring up a good point. Charlie Ward:

In 2001, while playing for the Knicks, it was discovered that Ward had made comments about Jews during a Bible-study session, comments that were eventually leaked to the press. Among the comments made: "Jews are stubborn...tell me, why did they persecute Jesus unless He knew something they didn't want to accept...They had His blood on their hands.

There was outrage directed at Ward from Jewish groups, the public, as well as the Knicks organization itself. Ward defended himself by saying "I didn't mean to offend any one group because that's not what I'm about. I have friends that are Jewish. Actually, my friend is a Jewish guy, and his name is Jesus Christ." He also said the quotes were taken out of context, as he stated that "Jews are stubborn" in speaking to what he perceived to be their disinclination to convert to Christianity.[9]

Ward eventually apologized for those statements, with his apology being accepted by the Anti-Defamation League.

Oops…my bad

Ward would definitely be canceled in todays world….as for Isaac, I remember reading that he fell out of favor with teammates during the BLM movements but was beloved by the organization….makes sense now that you mentioned who the owners are.

Philc1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.

Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?

Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.

Issac’s contract is 17mm and partially guaranteed if still on roster by Jan 1st. Low risk. Not sure what he wants but playing behind Bancharo won’t help him start at age 26. Jules is all nBA allstar and would be blocking his minutes….But:

He is 6-11. Maybe time to learn to play the 5 more?
Can back up both the 4 and 5?
And is talented as ****.
But…..over 6 NBA seasons he has played in only 147 games. Missed two entire seasons, played only 11 games this past one.
This is the kind of guy that either goes the way of Olidipo or reconstitutes and earns a new big contract after some durability. He could find a path back to a career on a contending team playing 15-20 minutes.
I haver read he is a big Jesus guy and for all we know he walks away from the pain and non contributory issues that come with being a pro athlete whose body won’t let him play, but……he can preach and find great purpose in religion.
That or signs with the Devil in Miami and sells his soul.

That's a lot cheaper than I thought. Still, I'm thinking paying Josh Hart 18 million is a.safer bet. The other option would be trading Fournier and maybe a protected pick- still there's an even money proposition that the pick would turn into a better player.

Im thinking Issac as a back up 4-5 type if Obi is expendable or part of a desirable trade scenario.

Not sure if this was brought up yet but Isaac is super religious and conservative. Some may not think it SHOULDN’T matter…and I agree…but I’m sure these things get discussed within sports organizations.

You quoted me and it was in there. It does factor in. The Devoss family who owns the Magic are also but have some very intense Republican views. Remember Secretary of Education under trump: Betsy Devos? They really have rallied and treated Issac very well.

You bring up a good point. Charlie Ward:

In 2001, while playing for the Knicks, it was discovered that Ward had made comments about Jews during a Bible-study session, comments that were eventually leaked to the press. Among the comments made: "Jews are stubborn...tell me, why did they persecute Jesus unless He knew something they didn't want to accept...They had His blood on their hands.

There was outrage directed at Ward from Jewish groups, the public, as well as the Knicks organization itself. Ward defended himself by saying "I didn't mean to offend any one group because that's not what I'm about. I have friends that are Jewish. Actually, my friend is a Jewish guy, and his name is Jesus Christ." He also said the quotes were taken out of context, as he stated that "Jews are stubborn" in speaking to what he perceived to be their disinclination to convert to Christianity.[9]

Ward eventually apologized for those statements, with his apology being accepted by the Anti-Defamation League.

Oops…my bad

Ward would definitely be canceled in todays world….as for Isaac, I remember reading that he fell out of favor with teammates during the BLM movements but was beloved by the organization….makes sense now that you mentioned who the owners are.

Today Ward would either be cancelled or elected to congress in the South

Herschel Walker came shockingly close and he's literally brain damaged.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.

Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?

Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.

Issac’s contract is 17mm and partially guaranteed if still on roster by Jan 1st. Low risk. Not sure what he wants but playing behind Bancharo won’t help him start at age 26. Jules is all nBA allstar and would be blocking his minutes….But:

He is 6-11. Maybe time to learn to play the 5 more?
Can back up both the 4 and 5?
And is talented as ****.
But…..over 6 NBA seasons he has played in only 147 games. Missed two entire seasons, played only 11 games this past one.
This is the kind of guy that either goes the way of Olidipo or reconstitutes and earns a new big contract after some durability. He could find a path back to a career on a contending team playing 15-20 minutes.
I haver read he is a big Jesus guy and for all we know he walks away from the pain and non contributory issues that come with being a pro athlete whose body won’t let him play, but……he can preach and find great purpose in religion.
That or signs with the Devil in Miami and sells his soul.

That's a lot cheaper than I thought. Still, I'm thinking paying Josh Hart 18 million is a.safer bet. The other option would be trading Fournier and maybe a protected pick- still there's an even money proposition that the pick would turn into a better player.

Im thinking Issac as a back up 4-5 type if Obi is expendable or part of a desirable trade scenario.

Not sure if this was brought up yet but Isaac is super religious and conservative. Some may not think it SHOULDN’T matter…and I agree…but I’m sure these things get discussed within sports organizations.

You quoted me and it was in there. It does factor in. The Devoss family who owns the Magic are also but have some very intense Republican views. Remember Secretary of Education under trump: Betsy Devos? They really have rallied and treated Issac very well.

You bring up a good point. Charlie Ward:

In 2001, while playing for the Knicks, it was discovered that Ward had made comments about Jews during a Bible-study session, comments that were eventually leaked to the press. Among the comments made: "Jews are stubborn...tell me, why did they persecute Jesus unless He knew something they didn't want to accept...They had His blood on their hands.

There was outrage directed at Ward from Jewish groups, the public, as well as the Knicks organization itself. Ward defended himself by saying "I didn't mean to offend any one group because that's not what I'm about. I have friends that are Jewish. Actually, my friend is a Jewish guy, and his name is Jesus Christ." He also said the quotes were taken out of context, as he stated that "Jews are stubborn" in speaking to what he perceived to be their disinclination to convert to Christianity.[9]

Ward eventually apologized for those statements, with his apology being accepted by the Anti-Defamation League.

Oops…my bad

Ward would definitely be canceled in todays world….as for Isaac, I remember reading that he fell out of favor with teammates during the BLM movements but was beloved by the organization….makes sense now that you mentioned who the owners are.

Today Ward would either be cancelled or elected to congress in the South

Herschel Walker came shockingly close and he's literally brain damaged.

I met him once. Nice guy but you can tell he took a one too many hits to the head

KnixinSix wrote:Lets go through the current list of possibly to likely available vs likely not available based on recent rumors....

Group A (guys that play both offense and can play D at average to better level)

Siakam
OG
Mitchell (has the ability to play above average defense in right system)
KP (injury prone)
Paul George (age)

Group B (elite offensive players but medium to high defensive liabilities)

KAT
LaVine (Injury prone)
Derozan

Truthfully combining contracts , defense , cost to trade for, and roster contruction all together my favorite 2 moves would be for 2 group A guys in Siakam and Mitchell.

I absolutely love Donovon Mitchell and think he'd be a high level 2 way player here. Hes young and on a lower star contract for the next 2 years. He is also durable. Yes he gives up some height. But we have Grimes and Hart to back him up at the 2. Also he would only be on the floor about 20-24 minutes total together with Brunson. He cam also play the 1. Then your counter move would be to shore up the front court defense with a stud defender in Siakam who can gaurd both the 3 and the 4 and even play some 5 depending on Matchups.

Mitch Rob/Siakam
Siakam/Obi
Hart/FA
D-Mitch/Grimes
Brunson/D-Mitch/McBride

Assets to be moved: RJ,Randle, Quickley, Fournier, DRose, 5-6FRPs

Why would the Cavs move Donovan When they just gave up a boatload to get him last year?

Regarding Siakam. Just don't see it. He's a career .327 shooter from 3 and is the same age as Randle.