Ohhhh you lugs...

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

Couple of corrections here.

He IS taking a career low percentage of shots 0-3 feet. That's accurate.

But those shots have turned into more shots 3-10 feet, where he is also hitting a career high %.

His % of shots attempted 10-16 and 16-3P are both career lows, demonstrating he is making progress in shot profile. He's turning those shots in 3-10 and 3s, as he should.

As such, per the % of shots taken, 2's are slightly below last season for a career low (so not quit career low, but close), but on the flipside his FG% on 2s is a career high .479, .22 points higher than his previous high in 2020-21.

Plus he's taking more FTs than '20-21.

Put together his EFG% and TS% is within a hair of that year's highs, despite the large disparity between 3FG%.

Now all those numbers are relative to one another, so you can decide what that means (or not) for a guy who has shown can shoot the 3 at a healthy rate for extended periods, even this year (.395 across 24 games in Dec-Jan), but it does show progress in that specific area.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

Couple of corrections here.

He IS taking a career low percentage of shots 0-3 feet. That's accurate.

But those shots have turned into more shots 3-10 feet, where he is also hitting a career high %.

His % of shots attempted 10-16 and 16-3P are both career lows, demonstrating he is making progress in shot profile. He's turning those shots in 3-10 and 3s, as he should.

As such, per the % of shots taken, 2's are slightly below last season for a career low (so not quit career low, but close), but on the flipside his FG% on 2s is a career high .479, .22 points higher than his previous high in 2020-21.

Plus he's taking more FTs than '20-21.

Put together his EFG% and TS% is within a hair of that year's highs, despite the large disparity between 3FG%.

Now all those numbers are relative to one another, so you can decide what that means (or not) for a guy who has shown can shoot the 3 at a healthy rate for extended periods, even this year (.395 across 24 games in Dec-Jan), but it does show progress in that specific area.

The way to say this differently is that his shot profile got worse. When you move your shots from a distance where you would normally see guys making 60+% of them to a distance where you are shooting INCREDIBLY POORLY at 38%, it doesn't matter if it's your career high or not. "Career high" is misleading, and quite frankly, worthless anecdote to the situation.

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

Couple of corrections here.

He IS taking a career low percentage of shots 0-3 feet. That's accurate.

But those shots have turned into more shots 3-10 feet, where he is also hitting a career high %.

His % of shots attempted 10-16 and 16-3P are both career lows, demonstrating he is making progress in shot profile. He's turning those shots in 3-10 and 3s, as he should.

As such, per the % of shots taken, 2's are slightly below last season for a career low (so not quit career low, but close), but on the flipside his FG% on 2s is a career high .479, .22 points higher than his previous high in 2020-21.

Plus he's taking more FTs than '20-21.

Put together his EFG% and TS% is within a hair of that year's highs, despite the large disparity between 3FG%.

Now all those numbers are relative to one another, so you can decide what that means (or not) for a guy who has shown can shoot the 3 at a healthy rate for extended periods, even this year (.395 across 24 games in Dec-Jan), but it does show progress in that specific area.

The way to say this differently is that his shot profile got worse.

No, it really isn't.

That's an ax to grind conclusion.

Jalen Brunson's 3-10% of shots jumped up .050 from last season (0-3ft remained the same). And he's significantly less efficient from both spots than last year.

.703 to .595 and .524 to .491.

You can't divorce those numbers from team, line-up, and scheme.

I mean you CAN, but why would you?

When you move your shots from a distance where you would normally see guys making 60+% of them to a distance where you are shooting INCREDIBLY POORLY at 38%, it doesn't matter if it's your career high or not. "Career high" is misleading, and quite frankly, worthless anecdote to the situation.

Now that's instructive.

Nobody on the Knicks shoots close to 60%+ 3 to 10 feet. I doubt ANYONE in the NBA does that "normally" ... much less that it's done in the NBA "normally."

So you tell me, why do you just throw that number out there, presumably arbitrarily?

I simply responded to the premise his 2 point shooting got worse.

It didn't. It got better.

That simple premise should be able to be discussed on its own merit without someone throwing 'yeah, but he sucks' into it.

That it can't be is a theme I return to often... and man, do some people hate that.

Knickoftime wrote:

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

Couple of corrections here.

He IS taking a career low percentage of shots 0-3 feet. That's accurate.

But those shots have turned into more shots 3-10 feet, where he is also hitting a career high %.

His % of shots attempted 10-16 and 16-3P are both career lows, demonstrating he is making progress in shot profile. He's turning those shots in 3-10 and 3s, as he should.

As such, per the % of shots taken, 2's are slightly below last season for a career low (so not quit career low, but close), but on the flipside his FG% on 2s is a career high .479, .22 points higher than his previous high in 2020-21.

Plus he's taking more FTs than '20-21.

Put together his EFG% and TS% is within a hair of that year's highs, despite the large disparity between 3FG%.

Now all those numbers are relative to one another, so you can decide what that means (or not) for a guy who has shown can shoot the 3 at a healthy rate for extended periods, even this year (.395 across 24 games in Dec-Jan), but it does show progress in that specific area.

The way to say this differently is that his shot profile got worse.

No, it really isn't.

That's an ax to grind conclusion.

Jalen Brunson's 3-10% of shots jumped up .050 from last season (0-3ft remained the same). And he's significantly less efficient from both spots than last year.

.703 to .595 and .524 to .491.

You can't divorce those numbers from team, line-up, and scheme.

I mean you CAN, but why would you?

When you move your shots from a distance where you would normally see guys making 60+% of them to a distance where you are shooting INCREDIBLY POORLY at 38%, it doesn't matter if it's your career high or not. "Career high" is misleading, and quite frankly, worthless anecdote to the situation.

Now that's instructive.

Nobody on the Knicks shoots close to 60%+ 3 to 10 feet. I doubt ANYONE in the NBA does that "normally" ... much less that it's done in the NBA "normally."

So you tell me, why do you just throw that number out there, presumably arbitrarily?

I simply responded to the premise his 2 point shooting got worse.

It didn't. It got better.

That simple premise should be able to be discussed on its own merit without someone throwing 'yeah, but he sucks' into it.

That it can't be is a theme I return to often... and man, do some people hate that.

It's gold star level stuff

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

It will matter if RJ can cut down on the tunnel vision. RJ's skill set is expanding. His biggest obstacle to leveling up. is his decision making.

RJ too often commits to a shot attempt, after its clear that there are better looks at the rim. Better sometimes to reset, and give the ball up.

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Im guessing that RJ's game would work better with a pass first PG (Which JB isnt) so there isnt as much "dribble, dribble,dribble"

Not blaming Brunson, he's a much better scorer than RJ.

Barrett's footwork, takes to the rim have improved this season. But as many other posters have already pointed out, RJ too often plays with blinders on. To the detriment of the team.

Here's a great example of what makes RJ frustrating as a prospect. You are correct in one area of improvement. He's showing a career best FG% from 0-3. However he's taking the fewest shots of his career there, and posting a career LOW in 2p FG%, so it literally doesnt matter.

Couple of corrections here.

He IS taking a career low percentage of shots 0-3 feet. That's accurate.

But those shots have turned into more shots 3-10 feet, where he is also hitting a career high %.

His % of shots attempted 10-16 and 16-3P are both career lows, demonstrating he is making progress in shot profile. He's turning those shots in 3-10 and 3s, as he should.

As such, per the % of shots taken, 2's are slightly below last season for a career low (so not quit career low, but close), but on the flipside his FG% on 2s is a career high .479, .22 points higher than his previous high in 2020-21.

Plus he's taking more FTs than '20-21.

Put together his EFG% and TS% is within a hair of that year's highs, despite the large disparity between 3FG%.

Now all those numbers are relative to one another, so you can decide what that means (or not) for a guy who has shown can shoot the 3 at a healthy rate for extended periods, even this year (.395 across 24 games in Dec-Jan), but it does show progress in that specific area.

The way to say this differently is that his shot profile got worse.

No, it really isn't.

That's an ax to grind conclusion.

Jalen Brunson's 3-10% of shots jumped up .050 from last season (0-3ft remained the same). And he's significantly less efficient from both spots than last year.

.703 to .595 and .524 to .491.

You can't divorce those numbers from team, line-up, and scheme.

I mean you CAN, but why would you?

When you move your shots from a distance where you would normally see guys making 60+% of them to a distance where you are shooting INCREDIBLY POORLY at 38%, it doesn't matter if it's your career high or not. "Career high" is misleading, and quite frankly, worthless anecdote to the situation.

Now that's instructive.

Nobody on the Knicks shoots close to 60%+ 3 to 10 feet. I doubt ANYONE in the NBA does that "normally" ... much less that it's done in the NBA "normally."

So you tell me, why do you just throw that number out there, presumably arbitrarily?

I simply responded to the premise his 2 point shooting got worse.

It didn't. It got better.

That simple premise should be able to be discussed on its own merit without someone throwing 'yeah, but he sucks' into it.

That it can't be is a theme I return to often... and man, do some people hate that.

It's gold star level stuff

Honestly not sure what that means or its relevance, but in my opinion, if Knicks fans are walking around thinking the 'normal' NBA player shoots 60%+ from 3-10 feet and that's a basis of comparison to 'inform' an opinion of and an attitude towards RJ Barrett ... well, that may help explain a lot.

They don’t. Just like you wouldn’t compare the 60% to what guys shoot at 3pt line.

Don't understand this either, but I finally figured your earlier post.

This is Barrett's % of shots profile for 0-3 feet/3-10/10-16/16-3P/3P for '21-22 and then this year, adjusted to the 900 shots he's taken this year (yeah, 900 exactly).

278/219/61/38/304

267/254/52/24/303

I don't know if the 11 less 0-3 feet shots over 62 games warrants the conclusion you suggested Martin.

Here's this shooting% from 0-3 for his rookie/3rd/current year

.568/.596/.637

The same for 3-10

.267/.307/.374

And this overall 2p shooting %

.432/.442/.479

This looks like to me someone who has improved. That's it, improved. No more, no less.

Now in my personal opinion math like that should be able to be acknowledged without narrative attempts to discount it.

'Yeah, he's better from 2' (when the claim is he isn't) seems pretty straightforward and easy enough to recognize.

But the internet is going to internet.