Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.

Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!

wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?

if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.

Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?

It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.

In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.

i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol

honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.

I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.

If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.

Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.

Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)

1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.

What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.

Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.

Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)

1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.

What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.

Wroten is the second youngest player on the team. The only guy younger is KP. He also would be the second youngest player on the W-Knicks. He is very young. He is a good low risk investment with nice potential.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's going to be rough for him if he can't defend the position. i have seen zero evidence he can.

You can't say there is zero evidence when the dude is blocking shots and stealing the ball in these highlights. It's just a garbage statement when you can blatantly see him make amazing defensive plays. The potential is there and there is plenty of evidence

highlight reels are not a great basis for making an assessment of a player. our biggest issue is on the defensive side of the ball in the backcourt. there's a difference between getting steals and being a great defender.

he's a knick so we shall see.

wasn't james harden leading the league in steals at some point? Good stat!

yes, and lets not forget that iverson was lauded for his steals....

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.

Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.

Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)

1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.

What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.

how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?

you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.

He does play the passing lanes and hustles back into a play if he's beaten. I'm not here to tell you he's a perfect players, as i've REPEATEDLY stated above. What is it with you guys taking such a hard line tack with this kid? As if we have all these other options just waiting. In our situation you take kids with the raw talent and you mold and coach them up.

Pre Draft Scouting reports:

Defensively, Wroten showed good awareness in team defense and outstanding anticipation making plays in the passing lanes, making use of his great length frequently to break up plays and pick off passes. He isn't always the most disciplined in his stance in isolation and his body language can get questionable when things don't go his way, but when he's keyed in he is great on this end, and appears to have all the physical tools to defend shooting guards at any level.

On the defensive end, Wroten has actually had a more consistently positive season, being an effective defender overall having fewer problems than on the offensive side of the ball. With his superior size, strength, length, and instincts, Wroten has spectacular potential on this end of the floor, and is a very effective man-to-man defender at the two-guard spot when he locks in. He's very prone to gambling, be it swiping at the ball in isolation situations or lunging into the passing lanes, but he has excellent anticipation and hands, which leads to a lot of disruptive plays for him, as well as plenty of steals and rebounds. He is prone to letting out of his stance and his urgency level can drop when things aren't going well for him, but overall he has good tools to guard the two-guard or combo-guard spot well in the pros, and could be an excellent defender if he truly commits himself.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tony-Wroten-5250/

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:Nothing I've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system.

Show me one -- just one -- starting PG on any Triangle team EVER . . . that shot 65% from the free throw line.

Then I'll agree with you -- okay (?)

1st of all Wroten is younger than our own developing guards! Just cuz he's not all the way developed doesn't mean he won't be a good player for this team at some point. He's not being brought in as a complete player. They're looking to develop him. That's what you do with 22 yr old PG's. At least he gets to the FT line! He avg'd 6 FTA's a game last year, which would be tied for 1st on this team with Melo.

What is wrong with you guys that you don't seem to understand that we're taking a look at a young Prospect and not a finished product? If he was perfect then we'd have no shot to get him. This is one of the ways we can upgrade the team by taking a possible Diamond in the rough and polishing them up. No different than a Draft pick or UFA.

how is he on defense in terms of fighting over picks, staying down, forcing ballhandlers to their weak hands, narrowing passing lanes, rotating, closing out?

you enjoy analyzing video. how much video and live stuff have you witnessed to make a fair assessment? i could not care less about his offensive skills at this point.

Are you suggesting that i've never watched the guy play? Look EVERY young player can get better with the technical aspects of defensive basketball. He's got a lot of raw physical tools that should help him on the defensive end. The coaching staff will be working with him and all of our young players to help them improve defensively.

He does play the passing lanes and hustles back into a play if he's beaten. I'm not here to tell you he's a perfect players, as i've REPEATEDLY stated above. What is it with you guys taking such a hard line tack with this kid? As if we have all these other options just waiting. In our situation you take kids with the raw talent and you mold and coach them up.

Pre Draft Scouting reports:

Defensively, Wroten showed good awareness in team defense and outstanding anticipation making plays in the passing lanes, making use of his great length frequently to break up plays and pick off passes. He isn't always the most disciplined in his stance in isolation and his body language can get questionable when things don't go his way, but when he's keyed in he is great on this end, and appears to have all the physical tools to defend shooting guards at any level.

On the defensive end, Wroten has actually had a more consistently positive season, being an effective defender overall having fewer problems than on the offensive side of the ball. With his superior size, strength, length, and instincts, Wroten has spectacular potential on this end of the floor, and is a very effective man-to-man defender at the two-guard spot when he locks in. He's very prone to gambling, be it swiping at the ball in isolation situations or lunging into the passing lanes, but he has excellent anticipation and hands, which leads to a lot of disruptive plays for him, as well as plenty of steals and rebounds. He is prone to letting out of his stance and his urgency level can drop when things aren't going well for him, but overall he has good tools to guard the two-guard or combo-guard spot well in the pros, and could be an excellent defender if he truly commits himself.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tony-Wroten-5250/

my thing with basketball is that it's always about defense first. "focus on digging in and shutting down the opponent and our offense will feed off the defense."

nowadays it seems to be the opposite and that way is where teams lose their way. so if you say he has the physical tools that's one thing, but how do you "coach" a player who has known only the "defense feeds off of offense" mindset?

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.

Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!

wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?

if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.

Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?

It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.

In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.

i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol

honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.

I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.

If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.

well yeah you do talk out your behind...all the time.

anyway... i like wroten myself and i feel he can do well on this team considering his quickness. but the fact that he has had injuries comes with a measure of reservation. But not to you...you go on to say he's a guard thats impossible to stay in front of...maybe pre-acl? he's still not fixed physically, is he?

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.

Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!

wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?

if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.

Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?

It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.

In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.

i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol

honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.

I talk out my AZZ? You really need to check yourself cuz I back up most of what I say. Don't confuse season predictions as the end all be all of basketball knowledge. Even the Pro Analysts get that wrong. When it comes to X's and O's or player evaluations I'm not often wrong and I present as much detail in my posts to at least make my case clear.

If you can't tell how quick Wroten is or how sick his handle is then I can't help you. Just looking at the frequency of his drives to the basket will tell you that he's at another level from any guard we have. The only issue is his level of conditioning after recovering from his ACL. When I said Wroten could be unstoppable if he's on the floor with our starters that's just LOGIC. He was not being stopped even when he was the only thing to worry about on the Sixer!!! This is without a JUMPER or other significant scoring threats. So yeah if you put him on the floor with other threats like Melo, KP, RoLo then I do believe he'd be very effective working off the attention those players would draw.

well yeah you do talk out your behind...all the time.

anyway... i like wroten myself and i feel he can do well on this team considering his quickness. but the fact that he has had injuries comes with a measure of reservation. But not to you...you go on to say he's a guard thats impossible to stay in front of...maybe pre-acl? he's still not fixed physically, is he?

You're the one talking out your Azz! Unless you know Wroten's current physical condition and can predict his future condition! Of course health is always the one mitigating factor. My comments are clearly talking about the kind of player Wroten is when healthy and in shape.

I've said multiple times that he needs to be healthy and fully rehabbed from his surgery. I've also stated in this thread that there are no guarantees with any prospect. This all just more BS from the usual suspects on this forum. I also stated that the Knicks are looking to develop the kid so this isn't just about where he's at right now. It's also about what he might be with further development.
He's a prospect and isn't costing the team much to take a look. If he can't play at a high enough level anymore it's no risk at all.