CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If we can just keep it to basketball then these problems will go away and things will go back to being the way they used to be. I expected the tension she. We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball but there's absolutely no need for it now. The Knicks finally appear to be turning the corner and like you said good times are ahead. I hope that is my take. I was able to get that point across despite things getting heated in this thread. I just want us all to be on the same page again and enjoy watching this team continue to grow

Absolutely. I know I was out of line responding to starksewing and I apologize. Tyson, Lin, Shump arggh not gonna see eye to eye with you on those guys. But this a new chapter.Porzingis is the real deal. Phil gets it. Great time to be a knick fan. Looking forward to the conversation here as the Knicks compete for the playoffs.

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If we can just keep it to basketball then these problems will go away and things will go back to being the way they used to be. I expected the tension she. We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball but there's absolutely no need for it now. The Knicks finally appear to be turning the corner and like you said good times are ahead. I hope that is my take. I was able to get that point across despite things getting heated in this thread. I just want us all to be on the same page again and enjoy watching this team continue to grow

Absolutely. I know I was out of line responding to starksewing and I apologize. Tyson, Lin, Shump arggh not gonna see eye to eye with you on those guys. But this a new chapter.Porzingis is the real deal. Phil gets it. Great time to be a knick fan. Looking forward to the conversation here as the Knicks compete for the playoffs.

All good Crush. I just want the fighting to end l. Difference of opinion is fine. For now on I'm gonna try to watch what I say and avoid saying things that get others riled up

And yes the future is bright for us FINALLY!!!!

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If we can just keep it to basketball then these problems will go away and things will go back to being the way they used to be. I expected the tension she. We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball but there's absolutely no need for it now. The Knicks finally appear to be turning the corner and like you said good times are ahead. I hope that is my take. I was able to get that point across despite things getting heated in this thread. I just want us all to be on the same page again and enjoy watching this team continue to grow

Absolutely. I know I was out of line responding to starksewing and I apologize. Tyson, Lin, Shump arggh not gonna see eye to eye with you on those guys. But this a new chapter.Porzingis is the real deal. Phil gets it. Great time to be a knick fan. Looking forward to the conversation here as the Knicks compete for the playoffs.

All good Crush. I just want the fighting to end l. Difference of opinion is fine. For now on I'm gonna try to watch what I say and avoid saying things that get others riled up

And yes the future is bright for us FINALLY!!!!

gunsnewing wrote:We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball...

Not for nothing but...

I appreciate the reconciliatory corner this thread has turned, but two brief thoughts.

The tenor I get from this if people who you idealogically disagree with you are somehow worse offenders of making it personal and getting away from basketball and that simply isn't the case. People who more closely share your opinions are guilty as well.

That said, the above sentence suggests to me this may still linger on the surface.

To me, Knicks were losing it far and away the key factor here. But even in an mea culpa you couch it as "and Melo wasn't playing team basketball"... again, it goes back to Melo

It's always something to do with Melo.

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball...

Not for nothing but...

I appreciate the reconciliatory corner this thread has turned, but two brief thoughts.

The tenor I get from this if people who you idealogically disagree with you are somehow worse offenders of making it personal and getting away from basketball and that simply isn't the case. People who more closely share your opinions are guilty as well.

That said, the above sentence suggests to me this may still linger on the surface.

To me, Knicks were losing it far and away the key factor here. But even in an mea culpa you couch it as "and Melo wasn't playing team basketball"... again, it goes back to Melo

It's always something to do with Melo.

Can't say that that the team's resurgence is because of what a player is now doing, and not look at what they might not have been doing in the past and how that influenced the team.

Anthony sets the tone for the team, whether folks like it or not...and other players would defer to him if he was in a selfish state of mind. Earlier in the season he seemed to signal a change in philosophy, and we've seen the results on the court...especially with some of the high assist games he's had.

Not as much dribbling, more passing, solid rebounding, good D, ISO-Melo at the right times...not sure you can ask for much more from him. A few glitches now and then are fine, but his game is definitely trending in the right direction.

I think I'm actually a good litmus test for how he's doing, having gone after him in the past, and you don't see me getting involved in any anti-Melo attacks. I'm critical of specific plays in a game-and will make comments in a game thread, but I do the same with KP or anyone else on the team.

His overall approach to the game has been the right one, IMO, and you can see him being more vocal on the court, so I've really had nothing to complain about with him.

Just pissed off that he got hurt. Can't get any calls from the refs, but they can get him injured...pretty frustrating for a Knicks fan.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball...

Not for nothing but...

I appreciate the reconciliatory corner this thread has turned, but two brief thoughts.

The tenor I get from this if people who you idealogically disagree with you are somehow worse offenders of making it personal and getting away from basketball and that simply isn't the case. People who more closely share your opinions are guilty as well.

That said, the above sentence suggests to me this may still linger on the surface.

To me, Knicks were losing it far and away the key factor here. But even in an mea culpa you couch it as "and Melo wasn't playing team basketball"... again, it goes back to Melo

It's always something to do with Melo.

There is a Catch-22 (one of my favorite concepts) here, though.

Can't say that that the team's resurgence is because of what a player is now doing, and not look at what they might not have been doing in the past and how that influenced the team.

Anthony sets the tone for the team, whether folks like it or not...and other players would defer to him if he was in a selfish state of mind. Earlier in the season he seemed to signal a change in philosophy, and we've seen the results on the court...especially with some of the high assist games he's had.

Not as much dribbling, more passing, solid rebounding, good D, ISO-Melo at the right times...not sure you can ask for much more from him. A few glitches now and then are fine, but his game is definitely trending in the right direction.

I think I'm actually a good litmus test for how he's doing, having gone after him in the past, and you don't see me getting involved in any anti-Melo attacks. I'm critical of specific plays in a game-and will make comments in a game thread, but I do the same with KP or anyone else on the team.

His overall approach to the game has been the right one, IMO, and you can see him being more vocal on the court, so I've really had nothing to complain about with him.

Just pissed off that he got hurt. Can't get any calls from the refs, but they can get him injured...pretty frustrating for a Knicks fan.

Yea I'm in the same boat. Don't even know why my name keeps getting brought up. Not sure why anyone's name keep getting brought up. When it's one person who saying they would still trade Melo.

Melo's age/mileage along with his contractstill concerns me but there is more benefit in keeping him now then getting rid of him. Mainly because we lucked out with KP and Melo now has a superstar caliber running mate. Without KP this is a Sub 30win team again

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:More or less my issue is folks absolving Melo of any blame. That is the root of the problem. And instead of acknowledging that Melo is playing the right way now a shortlist of posters have been slinging mud at the so call "melohaters" eventhough Melo is finally playing the way the fans were pleading for him to play. Teamball & defense.

I posted this in Knick1969's thread but it fits in this thread as well. Especially in the context of the thread's Title...

Ian Begley-ESPN
"He was just frustrated," a league source with knowledge of the incident said.
Stoudemire's frustration may have stemmed from his shot attempts -- nine -- in Monday's game, according to the source. He scored 18 points and had seven rebounds------
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7875526/2012-nba-playoffs-amare-stoudemire-new-york-knicks-injures-hand-loss
This is why MDA was fired/"Resigned" and ISO Woodson took over to appease Melo which he did but it alienated the rest of the team and there was extreme tension between Woodson/Melo & the rest of the team the entire time they were here until Phil cleaned up the mess

I donnu guns, I don't see that but I also have not read all the posts. I just don't see anyone absolving Melo entirely, maybe there is some reasoning of why they didn't think the was the utter crux of the problem but that not absolving anyone. Maybe just readying too much into it?

WaltLongmire wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball...

Not for nothing but...

I appreciate the reconciliatory corner this thread has turned, but two brief thoughts.

The tenor I get from this if people who you idealogically disagree with you are somehow worse offenders of making it personal and getting away from basketball and that simply isn't the case. People who more closely share your opinions are guilty as well.

That said, the above sentence suggests to me this may still linger on the surface.

To me, Knicks were losing it far and away the key factor here. But even in an mea culpa you couch it as "and Melo wasn't playing team basketball"... again, it goes back to Melo

It's always something to do with Melo.

There is a Catch-22 (one of my favorite concepts) here, though.

Can't say that that the team's resurgence is because of what a player is now doing, and not look at what they might not have been doing in the past and how that influenced the team.

Anthony sets the tone for the team, whether folks like it or not...and other players would defer to him if he was in a selfish state of mind. Earlier in the season he seemed to signal a change in philosophy, and we've seen the results on the court...especially with some of the high assist games he's had.

Not as much dribbling, more passing, solid rebounding, good D, ISO-Melo at the right times...not sure you can ask for much more from him. A few glitches now and then are fine, but his game is definitely trending in the right direction.

I think I'm actually a good litmus test for how he's doing, having gone after him in the past, and you don't see me getting involved in any anti-Melo attacks. I'm critical of specific plays in a game-and will make comments in a game thread, but I do the same with KP or anyone else on the team.

His overall approach to the game has been the right one, IMO, and you can see him being more vocal on the court, so I've really had nothing to complain about with him.

Just pissed off that he got hurt. Can't get any calls from the refs, but they can get him injured...pretty frustrating for a Knicks fan.

is it a catch-22 though? what I find odd is that people who endorsed or accepted melo for the sort of player he "was," are now recognizing carmelo is playing different, sharing the ball, playing defense. they love this "new melo." (we all do!) so far so good. yet why were they mad at posters like me and a couple of others who were demanding that he change the way he plays, that it fool's gold numbers he was putting up? should he not have played this way all along?

seems like there's a whole lot of selective memory going on.

Knickoftime wrote:

dk7th wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We were losing and Melo wasn't playing teamball...

Not for nothing but...

I appreciate the reconciliatory corner this thread has turned, but two brief thoughts.

The tenor I get from this if people who you idealogically disagree with you are somehow worse offenders of making it personal and getting away from basketball and that simply isn't the case. People who more closely share your opinions are guilty as well.

That said, the above sentence suggests to me this may still linger on the surface.

To me, Knicks were losing it far and away the key factor here. But even in an mea culpa you couch it as "and Melo wasn't playing team basketball"... again, it goes back to Melo

It's always something to do with Melo.

There is a Catch-22 (one of my favorite concepts) here, though.

Can't say that that the team's resurgence is because of what a player is now doing, and not look at what they might not have been doing in the past and how that influenced the team.

Anthony sets the tone for the team, whether folks like it or not...and other players would defer to him if he was in a selfish state of mind. Earlier in the season he seemed to signal a change in philosophy, and we've seen the results on the court...especially with some of the high assist games he's had.

Not as much dribbling, more passing, solid rebounding, good D, ISO-Melo at the right times...not sure you can ask for much more from him. A few glitches now and then are fine, but his game is definitely trending in the right direction.

I think I'm actually a good litmus test for how he's doing, having gone after him in the past, and you don't see me getting involved in any anti-Melo attacks. I'm critical of specific plays in a game-and will make comments in a game thread, but I do the same with KP or anyone else on the team.

His overall approach to the game has been the right one, IMO, and you can see him being more vocal on the court, so I've really had nothing to complain about with him.

Just pissed off that he got hurt. Can't get any calls from the refs, but they can get him injured...pretty frustrating for a Knicks fan.

is it a catch-22 though? what I find odd is that people who endorsed or accepted melo for the sort of player he "was," are now recognizing carmelo is playing different, sharing the ball, playing defense. they love this "new melo." (we all do!) so far so good. yet why were they mad at posters like me and a couple of others who were demanding that he change the way he plays, that it fool's gold numbers he was putting up? should he not have played this way all along?

seems like there's a whole lot of selective memory going on.

One place to start would be to consider the forum and audience in and to which you were making your "demands"?

Another is to consider how frequently you were making this irrelevant "demands".

i wasn't making demands "to" anyone here of course. if posters, however, were inferring that demands that melo change the way he plays were the same as challenging their acceptance or endorsement of the way he had been playing up until this season, why is that my problem?

further, if these "demands" are finally being acted upon, clearly to both melo's and the knicks' advantage, how would they have ever been "irrelevant" beforehand? wouldn't you rather say that the "demands" made of melo in retrospect were justified by the results we are seeing in the present?

or is that too heavy a burden?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:More or less my issue is folks absolving Melo of any blame. That is the root of the problem. And instead of acknowledging that Melo is playing the right way now a shortlist of posters have been slinging mud at the so call "melohaters" eventhough Melo is finally playing the way the fans were pleading for him to play. Teamball & defense.

I posted this in Knick1969's thread but it fits in this thread as well. Especially in the context of the thread's Title...

Ian Begley-ESPN
"He was just frustrated," a league source with knowledge of the incident said.
Stoudemire's frustration may have stemmed from his shot attempts -- nine -- in Monday's game, according to the source. He scored 18 points and had seven rebounds------
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7875526/2012-nba-playoffs-amare-stoudemire-new-york-knicks-injures-hand-loss
This is why MDA was fired/"Resigned" and ISO Woodson took over to appease Melo which he did but it alienated the rest of the team and there was extreme tension between Woodson/Melo & the rest of the team the entire time they were here until Phil cleaned up the mess

I donnu guns, I don't see that but I also have not read all the posts. I just don't see anyone absolving Melo entirely, maybe there is some reasoning of why they didn't think the was the utter crux of the problem but that not absolving anyone. Maybe just readying too much into it?

Guns is pretty accurate in what he is saying. However i dont want to dwell on that anymore. I just want to talk knicks now. Team is playing well lately

I mean the OP is not really debatable. Melo's presence eases KPs development. KP has performed at a high level earlier then anyone has expected. The development process of KP can't really be argued at the moment for the 2 time ROM and top 2 candidate for ROY. The results speak for themselves for the current formula we are using for his development.

One of the things that the Anti-Melo crowed never seem to accept though is that while they are quick to highlight Melo's influence on teammates and org due to selfishness and lack of leadership etc... They never seemed to accept things that may influence Melo though. Why is the human element only acceptable for Melo's surroundings but never for Melo?

What Phil Jackson has done (which Fish touched on in that Phil thread). Not many people saw coming. For the Anti-Melo crowed it wasn't even a possibility that something like this could happen. All Phil did was change the character around Melo. For the first time Knicks were actually able to build around Melo rather then going through constant transitions of "clumsy" roster assembly. So he resigned Melo, built the team around Melo and the triangle while adding in a high level talent like KP. Now we see a more cohesive unit that competes every night and Melo has completely bought in.

Some of you saying this is what you guys wanted all along is all good and all. But at the same time never accepted the possibility that it would happen. Because anything other then the viewpoint of Melo being a cancerous ball jock (Who got rid of Tyson and Lin, hates rookies and the KP draft pick, demands to win now, will sabotage and hold the team hostage in order to force Phil to make win now moves) wouldn't be accepted. Yet as the dust settles Phil moves have all pointed to cleaning up the character AROUND Melo.

By changing the character around Melo, Phil has now influenced Melo to be that team player and leader which now has trickled down to Melo making his teammates better on the court and playing as a cohesive unit which has resulted in more wins.

Phil was playing chess while we were all playing checkers. Witnessing Phil coming in gauging the team during Woodson's last yr. Then going all in one direction in deciding to change the character around Melo in order to mold Melo should in reality to those without agenda. Open up a whole new perspective on Carmelo Anthony.

Going forward though the agenda now seems to be propping up KP and making him the immediate franchise player in order to avoid accepting any type of critic over not being able to foresee Carmelo buying in and elevating his game. But to be fair there is a lot of baiting going on.