mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewing/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

Disagree about the KJ/Ewing thing...

Impossible to prove either way, I suppose, but my feeling is that the KJ/Patrick combo would have really helped Ewing on the offensive end and taken away some pressure on him, and I also think that having Patrick as an anchor might have helped Johnson be even more aggressive on the defensive end. I also believe that Johnson, a premium PG, would have put Ewing in better situations to score with less effort for Patrick. Turnover numbers would have gone down for him, IMO.

I think there was more of an overlap of similar abilities with KJ and Barkley than with KJ and Ewing.

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

fishmike wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:I am really impressed guys. Melo says one thing that every single New Yorker I know understands fully, something that is very real and sincere and obviously not meant in any way to insult actual New Yorkers, and you guys somehow evolve it into a debate as to who was the better player between Ewing and Barkley LMFAO. Is your hatred for Melo really that psychotic? I'm not trying to be cute, but this seriously has some kind of deranged and twisted secret jealousy written all over it LMFAO. He's on the team, he's our best scorer. Get over it. You sound like children for god's sake.

everything you just said. However its only a few posters here who are really dedicated to that agenda. I am sure you have figured out who they are. They are very very vocal and generally dont have a ton to say otherwise. My suggestion is to just have fun with it.

I knew when I saw the article this had potential to be a 10 pager of fodder and tangents. I need only read the last page to confirm this is true. What confirms what you wrote above is the amount of time these folks put into their anti-Melo posts. Imagine actually hating a sports figure so much (who is a good player and a good person off the court). These guys are scouring the internet for stats and history to further their agendas... I mean, why bother?

Trash his game, call him out on mistakes... fine. Every money guy in NYC deals with that. Dish it. But the stuff these guys come up with is somewhere between bat**** crazy, sad and pathetic.

Looking forward some BB tonight.

Pretty much ignored the thread as soon as I read the actual comment by Anthony, which made some sense and is probably something a majority of NYC residents have uttered at some point or another.

I curse out the city every time they raise my property taxes...doesn't mean I plan on leaving.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

NO, Baseball is different and is about individual achievement when your time comes to perform at the plate...MJ I'm sure could score 60 points whenever he wants or Melo can continue shooting when he touches the ball, do you think that hurts a team trying to win a Championship???..What if Tim Duncan shot the ball when ever he touches it??

you are all over the place. Who shot the ball whenever they touched it? Barkley? Barkley was a true team player regardless of who his teammates were. No need to make excuses for Barkley. He was just always great and played the right way, and passed the damn ball too.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

NO, Baseball is different and is about individual achievement when your time comes to perform at the plate...MJ I'm sure could score 60 points whenever he wants or Melo can continue shooting when he touches the ball, do you think that hurts a team trying to win a Championship???..What if Tim Duncan shot the ball when ever he touches it??

you are all over the place. Who shot the ball whenever they touched it? Barkley? Barkley was a true team player regardless of who his teammates were. No need to make excuses for Barkley. He was just always great and played the right way, and passed the damn ball too.

That's not the point at all...The point I'm trying to make isn't about Barkley but about MJ and Tim Duncan curtailing their games because they had the talent around them, for the good of the overall team...Never mind dude, this is zipping by you...

yeah ... haha ... zipping really fast.

you have not made one argument that made any sense and that wasn't destroyed but do keep trying.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

NO, Baseball is different and is about individual achievement when your time comes to perform at the plate...MJ I'm sure could score 60 points whenever he wants or Melo can continue shooting when he touches the ball, do you think that hurts a team trying to win a Championship???..What if Tim Duncan shot the ball when ever he touches it??

you are all over the place. Who shot the ball whenever they touched it? Barkley? Barkley was a true team player regardless of who his teammates were. No need to make excuses for Barkley. He was just always great and played the right way, and passed the damn ball too.

That's not the point at all...The point I'm trying to make isn't about Barkley but about MJ and Tim Duncan curtailing their games because they had the talent around them, for the good of the overall team...Never mind dude, this is zipping by you...

yeah ... haha ... zipping really fast.

you have not made one argument that made any sense and that wasn't destroyed but do keep trying.

Precisely my point...

by the way, it would be nice if here and there you would post some pics, links, data, anything of substance. I guess first you need an actual position instead of just throwing sh1t at the wall .... lol

Melo or barkley? who you got?

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

NO, Baseball is different and is about individual achievement when your time comes to perform at the plate...MJ I'm sure could score 60 points whenever he wants or Melo can continue shooting when he touches the ball, do you think that hurts a team trying to win a Championship???..What if Tim Duncan shot the ball when ever he touches it??

you are all over the place. Who shot the ball whenever they touched it? Barkley? Barkley was a true team player regardless of who his teammates were. No need to make excuses for Barkley. He was just always great and played the right way, and passed the damn ball too.

That's not the point at all...The point I'm trying to make isn't about Barkley but about MJ and Tim Duncan curtailing their games because they had the talent around them, for the good of the overall team...Never mind dude, this is zipping by you...

yeah ... haha ... zipping really fast.

you have not made one argument that made any sense and that wasn't destroyed but do keep trying.

Precisely my point...

by the way, it would be nice if here and there you would post some pics, links, data, anything of substance. I guess first you need an actual position instead of just throwing sh1t at the wall .... lol

Melo or barkley? who you got?

Whats this Barkley/Melo bug you have going??..Who gives a rats??..The Ewing/Barkley worm hole was enough for me..When I post empirical data proving why certain stats you follow are flawed, you don't even acknowledge that I'm right, so what's the point??

My new nickname for you is mr opposite hahaha

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewiomg/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

How could Barkley be one of the GOAT in the playoffs and never won a Championship??..What is the goal of the playoffs, individual stats???..Again, there are guys who play within a team construct to win titles and clearly Barkley had no shot at that so he had to try and will his team to victory..That does not make him GOAT in the playoffs..The guy leading a team to multiple Championships is GOAT in the playoffs...

context? teammates? all the arguments that you use for you know who?

Context?? What are you talking about??

if a baseball player hit 8 home runs a game in the playoffs but his pitchers stunk and gave up 15 runs a game, I assume that 8 home runs a game may still be considered one of the GOAT, no?

You can only do the best with what you are given.

NO, Baseball is different and is about individual achievement when your time comes to perform at the plate...MJ I'm sure could score 60 points whenever he wants or Melo can continue shooting when he touches the ball, do you think that hurts a team trying to win a Championship???..What if Tim Duncan shot the ball when ever he touches it??

you are all over the place. Who shot the ball whenever they touched it? Barkley? Barkley was a true team player regardless of who his teammates were. No need to make excuses for Barkley. He was just always great and played the right way, and passed the damn ball too.

That's not the point at all...The point I'm trying to make isn't about Barkley but about MJ and Tim Duncan curtailing their games because they had the talent around them, for the good of the overall team...Never mind dude, this is zipping by you...

yeah ... haha ... zipping really fast.

you have not made one argument that made any sense and that wasn't destroyed but do keep trying.

Precisely my point...

by the way, it would be nice if here and there you would post some pics, links, data, anything of substance. I guess first you need an actual position instead of just throwing sh1t at the wall .... lol

Melo or barkley? who you got?

Whats this Barkley/Melo bug you have going??..Who gives a rats??..The Ewing/Barkley worm hole was enough for me..When I post empirical data proving why certain stats you follow are flawed, you don't even acknowledge that I'm right, so what's the point??

My new nickname for you is mr opposite hahaha

See?..You can't handle the truth...

sorry dude I need to end this but its not you, its me so don't feel bad.

gunsnewing wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Best way to settle this is to ask average NBA fans who would they draft if starting a team Ewing or Barkley

Forget the fans...who would the average GM take?

I would take Ewing, and a majority of GMs would. Played both ends of the court and played hard. Fit into a team concept better than Barkley, IMO.

Not as colorful or spectacular as Barkley, but how do you think a Ewing/KJ team would have done with some of the other talent Phoenix had at the time? Both would have been better for that pairing.

I make take ewing too if I was starting a team.

Ewing and KJ would not have been close to what Barkley did on that team. Barkley again was one of the GOATs of the playoffs. Ewing was not.

Barkley was ranked much higher in the top 50 while ewing was a center so probably the higher pick.

Disagree about the KJ/Ewing thing...

Impossible to prove either way, I suppose, but my feeling is that the KJ/Patrick combo would have really helped Ewing on the offensive end and taken away some pressure on him, and I also think that having Patrick as an anchor might have helped Johnson be even more aggressive on the defensive end. I also believe that Johnson, a premium PG, would have put Ewing in better situations to score with less effort for Patrick. Turnover numbers would have gone down for him, IMO.

I think there was more of an overlap of similar abilities with KJ and Barkley than with KJ and Ewing.

Not so sure about that. Ewing did not like playing with a PG who liked to score. That's why award became his caddy. Certainly was one of Ewing's character flaws. Derek Harper was perfect because he picked his spots offensively

Would KJ have had the gravitas to cause Patrick to have a change of heart...or would KJ have altered his game if he realized it could lead to a title.

We see a little of this with the James/Irving/Love triangle, and saw similar situation with James, Wade, and Bosh, although it was Bosh who really seemed to change his game to accommodate James and Wade.

Don't remember Ewing's dislike for shooting PGs.