BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:WCS is an ELITE level defender. He's not just some shot blocking big.

Opposing teams often abandon the pick-and-roll against Kentucky because Cauley-Stein’s quickness and ability to defend guards as well as centers allow the Wildcats to switch without being at a disadvantage. Cauley-Stein often guards the opposing team’s best scorer, regardless of position. The most recent example: He limited Auburn point guard K.T. Harrell, the SEC’s leading scorer, to 1-of-12 shooting.

Between his athleticism and uncanny timing, Cauley-Stein makes life difficult for opposing guards, both as a primary and roving help defender. Watching film, it almost looks as if he sometimes wants shorter players to get a half step on him, in hopes of inducing a shot. That’s how much Cauley-Stein trusts his length and foot speed: He knows he’ll be able to catch players from behind to get a block as their shots are being released.

Nixluva do you think Willie Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell for goodness sakes? Do you think Bill Russell got bullied by 6-5 guy two games ain a row when it mattered?

Think about this for one moment--Jahill Okafor was the focus of teams double and triple teaming him all year yet he was still a 20-10 player who shot 67%

teams that played Kentucky put a guard on Willie Stein and he was in sinmgle digits most of the year. He did not lead his own team in any category. I don't think he has a great feel for the game--that he will be a wonderful workout warrior but when he takes the court you have to be kidding me elite level defender--the one thing stein has going for him is the C position is PUTRID right now in the nBA--thats his up. If he was in the 80 or 90's he'd be a career back up. Those guys all knew how to play.

The more you post on this subject the worse you're starting to look. You seem to have a blind spot for just what it is that makes WCS special. You aren't paing attention to the details and are focused on minute areas that don't really play a major role in how WCS helps his team. I literally just posted it above and you keep going on about what you think you saw in a couple of games. You are obsessing over small flaws you saw and blowing them up way out of proportion.

The mere fact that you think WCS importance comes down to him leading in some statistical category proves to me that you are hopelessly lost on what makes him such a great defensive player. You really don't get it. I can't help you to understand beyond all that i've presented. I suggest you go over this thread and re-read all of the ways that WCS helps his team and why that would have a huge impact at the NBA level and how teams play now. Try to watch some Kentucky video again to see how they used WCS and perhaps the lightbulb will go off in your head finally after all this time. I still have hope for you.

I actually watch their games--Im not reading off a draft sheet.

That actually makes it worse!!! You should know how they used WCS and that he would fill a much needed role in today's NBA game. On D you need a big with length, size, speed, agility, athletic ability and timing. WCS excels at all of those areas. His ability to cover ground and give help, shrinks the floor defensively and makes everyone else on the team better defensively. Everyone has less ground to defend with WCS out there backing them up. Even our post defender will receive help from WCS since he's able to cover so much ground so quickly.

This is an elite defender who plays hard both ways. And hes not playing with 6 7 footers(although Stein was on that team)

Come on man!!! Ole Miss is basically setting up all those blocks with awful layup attempts. Nerlens is an OK player but he's the guy you hold up to show that WCS isn't big and tough enough to guard NBA centers? You need to stop cuz it's getting embarrassing now. JUST STOP!

WCS is only moving up in the draft as you've been mounting this Don Quixote style attack on his credibility. You aren't even recognizing how he was actually used defensively but going on about Post defense as if that's the key to what makes him special. LOST!!! This isn't even a fair fight anymore. WCS is one of the fastest, most agile and athletic 7'ers to ever enter the draft.
He was one of the best defenders at the same time being one of the best Plus Minus players. What he does isn't always ending up in the boxscore but he helps his team defensively.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:WCS is an ELITE level defender. He's not just some shot blocking big.

Opposing teams often abandon the pick-and-roll against Kentucky because Cauley-Stein’s quickness and ability to defend guards as well as centers allow the Wildcats to switch without being at a disadvantage. Cauley-Stein often guards the opposing team’s best scorer, regardless of position. The most recent example: He limited Auburn point guard K.T. Harrell, the SEC’s leading scorer, to 1-of-12 shooting.

Between his athleticism and uncanny timing, Cauley-Stein makes life difficult for opposing guards, both as a primary and roving help defender. Watching film, it almost looks as if he sometimes wants shorter players to get a half step on him, in hopes of inducing a shot. That’s how much Cauley-Stein trusts his length and foot speed: He knows he’ll be able to catch players from behind to get a block as their shots are being released.

Nixluva do you think Willie Stein is the 2nd coming of Bill Russell for goodness sakes? Do you think Bill Russell got bullied by 6-5 guy two games ain a row when it mattered?

Think about this for one moment--Jahill Okafor was the focus of teams double and triple teaming him all year yet he was still a 20-10 player who shot 67%

teams that played Kentucky put a guard on Willie Stein and he was in sinmgle digits most of the year. He did not lead his own team in any category. I don't think he has a great feel for the game--that he will be a wonderful workout warrior but when he takes the court you have to be kidding me elite level defender--the one thing stein has going for him is the C position is PUTRID right now in the nBA--thats his up. If he was in the 80 or 90's he'd be a career back up. Those guys all knew how to play.

The more you post on this subject the worse you're starting to look. You seem to have a blind spot for just what it is that makes WCS special. You aren't paing attention to the details and are focused on minute areas that don't really play a major role in how WCS helps his team. I literally just posted it above and you keep going on about what you think you saw in a couple of games. You are obsessing over small flaws you saw and blowing them up way out of proportion.

The mere fact that you think WCS importance comes down to him leading in some statistical category proves to me that you are hopelessly lost on what makes him such a great defensive player. You really don't get it. I can't help you to understand beyond all that i've presented. I suggest you go over this thread and re-read all of the ways that WCS helps his team and why that would have a huge impact at the NBA level and how teams play now. Try to watch some Kentucky video again to see how they used WCS and perhaps the lightbulb will go off in your head finally after all this time. I still have hope for you.

I actually watch their games--Im not reading off a draft sheet.

That actually makes it worse!!! You should know how they used WCS and that he would fill a much needed role in today's NBA game. On D you need a big with length, size, speed, agility, athletic ability and timing. WCS excels at all of those areas. His ability to cover ground and give help, shrinks the floor defensively and makes everyone else on the team better defensively. Everyone has less ground to defend with WCS out there backing them up. Even our post defender will receive help from WCS since he's able to cover so much ground so quickly.

This is an elite defender who plays hard both ways. And hes not playing with 6 7 footers(although Stein was on that team)

Come on man!!! Ole Miss is basically setting up all those blocks with awful layup attempts. Nerlens is an OK player but he's the guy you hold up to show that WCS isn't big and tough enough to guard NBA centers? You need to stop cuz it's getting embarrassing now. JUST STOP!

WCS is only moving up in the draft as you've been mounting this Don Quixote style attack on his credibility. You aren't even recognizing how he was actually used defensively but going on about Post defense as if that's the key to what makes him special. LOST!!! This isn't even a fair fight anymore. WCS is one of the fastest, most agile and athletic 7'ers to ever enter the draft.
He was one of the best defenders at the same time being one of the best Plus Minus players. What he does isn't always ending up in the boxscore but he helps his team defensively.

Nixluva study this tape from 5:26 on. Its a very fair assessment of Willie Stein play. The truth is he does not bring it every game. You cannot dispute this if you have watched him play for 3 years--he simply does not bring it every game--actually a LOT of games. Guarding 6-3 guards in a tight space does not make you elite. Im not calling Stein a bust but youre irrational exuberance for guy who just did 2 points and 4 rebounds in a final four game is absurd. If it was 1 game I d say all right--nixluva his career is filled with them. Dont tell me some BS--I watch CBB all the time. I know willie potential and I know he runs very hot and cold. If you think he doesnt youre just fooling yourself in. He'll get drafted high-Im sure of it because of supply and demand--he'll have his moments but if he played the same way he did in college--with an INCONSISTENT motor--he'll get exposed and benched
quickly.

Did you read that stat--last among C in defensive rebounding? How can you be an elite player and be last in rebounding in all of CBB? LAST

and then you add in 11.4 points 40 min adjusted?

Did you read where he said he gets pushed around--this is a year before the final four where he got pushed all over the court by a smaller guy.

Season	 G   MP   FG   FGA  FG%   2P  2PA  2P%   3P  3PA  3P%   FT  FTA  FT%   TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
2011-12	 35  7.7  0.7  1.6  .411  0.4 0.6  .619  0.3 1.0  .286  0.2 0.4  .500  1.4  0.3  0.1  0.4  0.3  1.0 1.8
2012-13	 32  10.3 1.3  3.1  .439  0.9 1.7  .547  0.4 1.4  .311  1.0 1.3  .767  1.8  0.8  0.4  0.5  0.3  1.3 4.2
2013-14	 38  27.2 5.2  9.8  .528  4.2 7.2  .582  1.0 2.6  .378  2.7 3.5  .765  6.3  1.3  0.7  1.7  1.0  2.5 13.9
2014-15	 39  33.6 6.8  12.5 .547  5.8 9.9  .581  1.1 2.6  .416	4.0 5.1  .780  8.2  2.6  0.8  1.5  1.6  1.7 18.8

Kaminsky went on to show progress his last 2 seasons and maybe WCS is a little more of a late bloomer and will start to show more improvement now and going forward. It's entirely possible. There's nothing stopping WCS from making advancement. He clearly has the talent to be better. Now he'll have all the time and resources to work on his game and he'll have a better role if he is drafted by the Knicks.

BRIGGS wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Stein is a really bad pick at 4. He will struggle physically in the NBA. Defensively, I think he's either a liability on the glass at center or neutralized from a weak side standpoint by the "stretch" 4.

Another one talking out the crack of his ass! How will WCS struggle physically in the NBA? WCS is able to guard 1-5 in space and is a terrific help defender. He was used on the perimeter by Kentucky and shut teams down in the PnR. Defending so much away from the basket did have an impact on his rebounding, but really the way our team would be built he would be paired with a strong rebounder while he played Free Safety on D. That's how you use WCS.

Listen you retarded mental case, I understand you tend to get overly excited but there's no reason to believe people should agree with your 1 dimensional idiocy. Transposing college plus minus stats to the NBA is ridiculous for many reasons. For stein, in particular, just a few include line-up based plus minus deviation, increased help coverage distances in the NBA, already subpar defensive rebounding numbers that project to get worse against much stronger players.

He would need to be paired with a strong combination rebounder/shooter to achieve floor balance. That's difficult to come by and one of the reasons he's a poor option at 4, although reasonable later on.

I dont want to break nixluva cahones--but hes got to put the pipe down. He thinks Willie Stein is going to hawk John Wall up the court and shut him down. I think he believes that. I think in honesty that he can be a decent 8-10 point point 7 rebound 2 block shot guy around his peak. Thats his reasonable projection and upside past that at this point would be absurd to surmise. I think he starts at 5 points 4.5 rebounds next year. Is that enough value for 4? Im not sure about that.

I agree with you on Stein. 'Luva is free to have his opinion, although I believe it's quite poorly put together. He's just not free to initiate conversations disrespectfully.

nixluva wrote:You've got a bias against the kid. You can't see past this bias. You can't see that as a player he's still got room to grow and make even better use of his ELITE physical talents. He's not even close to tapping into all that he can be as a player. Some guys develop faster than others. Doesn't mean he can't develop and so far he's showing that he has the will and talent to get better. You're holding all of his flaws against him but just for a moment imagine that he's like Frank Kaminsky, who started off basically slow and kept working and getting better, gaining confidence and now he's a much more polished product.

Season	 G   MP   FG   FGA  FG%   2P  2PA  2P%   3P  3PA  3P%   FT  FTA  FT%   TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
2011-12	 35  7.7  0.7  1.6  .411  0.4 0.6  .619  0.3 1.0  .286  0.2 0.4  .500  1.4  0.3  0.1  0.4  0.3  1.0 1.8
2012-13	 32  10.3 1.3  3.1  .439  0.9 1.7  .547  0.4 1.4  .311  1.0 1.3  .767  1.8  0.8  0.4  0.5  0.3  1.3 4.2
2013-14	 38  27.2 5.2  9.8  .528  4.2 7.2  .582  1.0 2.6  .378  2.7 3.5  .765  6.3  1.3  0.7  1.7  1.0  2.5 13.9
2014-15	 39  33.6 6.8  12.5 .547  5.8 9.9  .581  1.1 2.6  .416	4.0 5.1  .780  8.2  2.6  0.8  1.5  1.6  1.7 18.8

Kaminsky went on to show progress his last 2 seasons and maybe WCS is a little more of a late bloomer and will start to show more improvement now and going forward. It's entirely possible. There's nothing stopping WCS from making advancement. He clearly has the talent to be better. Now he'll have all the time and resources to work on his game and he'll have a better role if he is drafted by the Knicks.

Kaminsky busted his face up in practice today with the Suns took stitches that went out and wrecked the guys he was playing with. When John Hornaceck was asked to compare Kaminsky Lyles and Oubre he seemed to choke up to try to say something positive about Oubre.

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Stein is a really bad pick at 4. He will struggle physically in the NBA. Defensively, I think he's either a liability on the glass at center or neutralized from a weak side standpoint by the "stretch" 4.

Another one talking out the crack of his ass! How will WCS struggle physically in the NBA? WCS is able to guard 1-5 in space and is a terrific help defender. He was used on the perimeter by Kentucky and shut teams down in the PnR. Defending so much away from the basket did have an impact on his rebounding, but really the way our team would be built he would be paired with a strong rebounder while he played Free Safety on D. That's how you use WCS.

Listen you retarded mental case, I understand you tend to get overly excited but there's no reason to believe people should agree with your 1 dimensional idiocy. Transposing college plus minus stats to the NBA is ridiculous for many reasons. For stein, in particular, just a few include line-up based plus minus deviation, increased help coverage distances in the NBA, already subpar defensive rebounding numbers that project to get worse against much stronger players.

He would need to be paired with a strong combination rebounder/shooter to achieve floor balance. That's difficult to come by and one of the reasons he's a poor option at 4, although reasonable later on.

Man GTFOH! You haven't contributed ISH to this conversation and now you come in here with some lame comments about WCS stuggling in the NBA. Stop trying to sound like you have this all figured out. You come parachuting in with this nonsense.

It's obvious that the best way to use WCS is to pair him with another strong rebounding big. That's going to allow him to roam and give help using his elite agility, length and quickness. That's how he was used in Kentucky this year. It's not about transposing plus minus from college to the NBA. It's about physical talent that is most likely to be effective at the NBA level. WCS has that kind of elite physical ability.

                   3/4 Sprint    Agility    Max Vert
John Wall          3.14          10.84      39.0"
WCS                3.15          10.45      37.0"
Tyson Chandler     3.36		 12.13	    33.5"

'Luva, your delusions although at times entertaining are mostly a complete waste of time. You'd do well to increase your nominal understanding of the differences between the 4 and the 5: Stein is effectively a tweener from a strength standpoint at the 5 and a shooting standpoint from the 4. That matters historically in the NBA.

Also not auditioning for a track team. Given that, Stein is a bad pick at 4.

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Stein is a really bad pick at 4. He will struggle physically in the NBA. Defensively, I think he's either a liability on the glass at center or neutralized from a weak side standpoint by the "stretch" 4.

Another one talking out the crack of his ass! How will WCS struggle physically in the NBA? WCS is able to guard 1-5 in space and is a terrific help defender. He was used on the perimeter by Kentucky and shut teams down in the PnR. Defending so much away from the basket did have an impact on his rebounding, but really the way our team would be built he would be paired with a strong rebounder while he played Free Safety on D. That's how you use WCS.

Listen you retarded mental case, I understand you tend to get overly excited but there's no reason to believe people should agree with your 1 dimensional idiocy. Transposing college plus minus stats to the NBA is ridiculous for many reasons. For stein, in particular, just a few include line-up based plus minus deviation, increased help coverage distances in the NBA, already subpar defensive rebounding numbers that project to get worse against much stronger players.

He would need to be paired with a strong combination rebounder/shooter to achieve floor balance. That's difficult to come by and one of the reasons he's a poor option at 4, although reasonable later on.

Man GTFOH! You haven't contributed ISH to this conversation and now you come in here with some lame comments about WCS stuggling in the NBA. Stop trying to sound like you have this all figured out. You come parachuting in with this nonsense.

It's obvious that the best way to use WCS is to pair him with another strong rebounding big. That's going to allow him to roam and give help using his elite agility, length and quickness. That's how he was used in Kentucky this year. It's not about transposing plus minus from college to the NBA. It's about physical talent that is most likely to be effective at the NBA level. WCS has that kind of elite physical ability.

                   3/4 Sprint    Agility    Max Vert
John Wall          3.14          10.84      39.0"
WCS                3.15          10.45      37.0"
Tyson Chandler     3.36		 12.13	    33.5"

'Luva, your delusions although at times entertaining are mostly a complete waste of time. You'd do well to increase your nominal understanding of the differences between the 4 and the 5: Stein is effectively a tweener from a strength standpoint at the 5 and a shooting standpoint from the 4. That matters historically in the NBA.

Also not auditioning for a track team. Given that, Stein is a bad pick at 4.

You're insults about my contributions mean nothing. I'm well aware of what I contribute to this forum. I back up what i'm talking about with actual facts. You're still talking out your ass with this crap you're spewing. You don't know what the F you're talking about when it comes to WCS.

Well then what's coming out of my ass is better that what's coming out of your brain. As you yourself will admit, your predictions are so wrong historically, it's become a yearly tradition to deride you during preseason. You're not even in the ball park most of the time. Your use of unrelated "facts" and inability to respectfully process a counter opinion is equally troubling. Stein remains a bad pick at 4 in my opinion, despite the gratuitous sprinting statistics.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:You've got a bias against the kid. You can't see past this bias. You can't see that as a player he's still got room to grow and make even better use of his ELITE physical talents. He's not even close to tapping into all that he can be as a player. Some guys develop faster than others. Doesn't mean he can't develop and so far he's showing that he has the will and talent to get better. You're holding all of his flaws against him but just for a moment imagine that he's like Frank Kaminsky, who started off basically slow and kept working and getting better, gaining confidence and now he's a much more polished product.

Season	 G   MP   FG   FGA  FG%   2P  2PA  2P%   3P  3PA  3P%   FT  FTA  FT%   TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
2011-12	 35  7.7  0.7  1.6  .411  0.4 0.6  .619  0.3 1.0  .286  0.2 0.4  .500  1.4  0.3  0.1  0.4  0.3  1.0 1.8
2012-13	 32  10.3 1.3  3.1  .439  0.9 1.7  .547  0.4 1.4  .311  1.0 1.3  .767  1.8  0.8  0.4  0.5  0.3  1.3 4.2
2013-14	 38  27.2 5.2  9.8  .528  4.2 7.2  .582  1.0 2.6  .378  2.7 3.5  .765  6.3  1.3  0.7  1.7  1.0  2.5 13.9
2014-15	 39  33.6 6.8  12.5 .547  5.8 9.9  .581  1.1 2.6  .416	4.0 5.1  .780  8.2  2.6  0.8  1.5  1.6  1.7 18.8

Kaminsky went on to show progress his last 2 seasons and maybe WCS is a little more of a late bloomer and will start to show more improvement now and going forward. It's entirely possible. There's nothing stopping WCS from making advancement. He clearly has the talent to be better. Now he'll have all the time and resources to work on his game and he'll have a better role if he is drafted by the Knicks.

No bias--Im being fair. Im saying his NBA upside right now is 8-10 points 7 rebounds 2 blocks. Hes done NOTHING to suggest more. I really dont understand what you mean by elite defender--you really think hes stopping guys like Wall Lillard Curry Lebron--youve got to be out of your mind if you believe that.

Willie Stein UPSIDE based on his college play

8-10 points 7 rebounds 2 blocks--thats fair.

Is that worth pick #4 well maybe it is for a team with no C like the Suns picking Alex Len #5(who was better than Stein in college)

In the east when he has to take on 275 pound Andre Drummond we will get a sense of what kind of defender he is.

ah so steins numbers at kentucky matter but towns' does not?

didn't you predict towns to score 30 points a game with 12-14 rebounds and 6 assists?????

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/willie-cauley-stein-to-work-out-for-knicks-june-16/

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

Cauley-Stein had initially said at the NBA Draft Combine he would work out for New York last month following the combine.

“I love it, I respect Melo and the way they’re running things over there,” Cauley-Stein said of Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks, who own the No. 4 pick in the NBA Draft. “It’s a matter of time before they begin to get back on the top.”

As for potentially teaming up with Anthony, Cauley-Stein likes the idea.

“I think it could be a good fit,” he said. “I respect Melo’s game a lot. I look at a lot of his stuff, and footwork-wise I think I could learn from him really well and I think we could complement each other offensively, defensively. The way we could play off each other, the sky’s the limit on how it could go.”

Cauley-Stein averaged 8.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, and 1.2 steals as a junior on a Kentucky team that won its first 38 games before losing to Wisconsin in the national semifinals.

Knicks President Phil Jackson has said he would like to take a defensive-oriented big man, and Cauley-Stein fits that bill.

DraftExpress.com currently has the Knicks taking Duke wing Justise Winslow at No. 4 with Cauley-Stein going No. 5 to Orlando.

The Knicks also worked out former Duke point guard Quinn Cook on Friday, suggesting they may look to add a second-round pick.