BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

---> . Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

Newyork there are almost 7 white people for every black person in the US. At the end of the day you can just look at simple math to determine why there are more white owners.

Yeah but that's not the reason why there aren't more Black people in position to be owners. There's such a historic inequality and lack of generational wealth in the black Community. It's largely system based. I could bore you with all the details of just how many laws and practices have been designed specifically to disadvantage minorities, but if you don't already know just how bad it's been then God help you. It's shame how this country has treated it's minorities given that this country's great wealth and power would not have been possible if not for the contributions of those very minorities. This country owes a debt and to have done much better for those who worked and died to make this country wealthy and strong from it's inception.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

---> . Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

Newyork there are almost 7 white people for every black person in the US. At the end of the day you can just look at simple math to determine why there are more white owners.

So then back to your previous point. The odds of blacks owning a basketball team are pretty slim correct due to the same mathematics. And that's just off whites and not other races who may be interested.

There are almost triple the amount of white billionaires in just the NBA as owners then blacks in the WORLD, not just the US. If those NBA billionaires were the only whites left in the world there still would be more white billionaires then black with a population of like 28. The fact that there are 7 whites for every black person is exactly why blacks should put more effort into unity for blacks.

Blacks are 13% of the population. 26% out of that 13% live in poverty. Whites who take up 62% if not counting Hispanic. 10% of the 62% live in poverty. So around 10.6 mil blacks live in poverty out of 41 mil and 19.5 mil whites live in poverty out of 195 mil. Again exactly why blacks should put more effort to unity for blacks.

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

And anything pro white is considered uniting and cosmopolitan...

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

---> . Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

Newyork there are almost 7 white people for every black person in the US. At the end of the day you can just look at simple math to determine why there are more white owners.

So then back to your previous point. The odds of blacks owning a basketball team are pretty slim correct due to the same mathematics. And that's just off whites and not other races who may be interested.

There are almost triple the amount of white billionaires in just the NBA as owners then blacks in the WORLD, not just the US. If those NBA billionaires were the only whites left in the world there still would be more white billionaires then black with a population of like 28. The fact that there are 7 whites for every black person is exactly why blacks should put more effort into unity for blacks.

Blacks are 13% of the population. 26% out of that 13% live in poverty. Whites who take up 62% if not counting Hispanic. 10% of the 62% live in poverty. So around 10.6 mil blacks live in poverty out of 41 mil and 19.5 mil whites live in poverty out of 195 mil. Again exactly why blacks should put more effort to unity for blacks.

Understand that Blacks did do this but they got stomped by Whites who couldn't abide blacks being successful and the system as a whole was set up to oppress black progress in order to keep the status quo. Also once Civil Rights legislation passed Blacks quickly left off having their own institutions and businesses. That was a fatal mistake.

So you imply that there are no successful black people in America?
I see a lot of them on TV and all around me in all ways of live.
Many of them alone have more wealth that millions of people in some African countries combined.
Some of them pure. But even they have 10 times more that pure people in majority of countries of the world.
Do you really think that if they never happened to be here they will be better of?
I really grateful that Egyptians took Jews into slavery. This was a precursor to great nation being started.
The ways of history are twisted ways.. you never know how evil will turn into good. There is nothing by the way to make good from but evil.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

---> . Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

Newyork there are almost 7 white people for every black person in the US. At the end of the day you can just look at simple math to determine why there are more white owners.

Yeah but that's not the reason why there aren't more Black people in position to be owners. There's such a historic inequality and lack of generational wealth in the black Community. It's largely system based. I could bore you with all the details of just how many laws and practices have been designed specifically to disadvantage minorities, but if you don't already know just how bad it's been then God help you. It's shame how this country has treated it's minorities given that this country's great wealth and power would not have been possible if not for the contributions of those very minorities. This country owes a debt and to have done much better for those who worked and died to make this country wealthy and strong from it's inception.

So how much every African American should get in restitution?
And how much should every Native American get?
And from were this restitution should be taken?
From the descendants of Slave owners and Settlers or from everybody including new emigrants?
Or just from reach people? All reach people or only white reach people?
Or from Social Security funds?
You pointing out at very big issue here but what is your solution for it?
What is your action plan?

There is not one aspect of life in America in which African Americans aren't being negatively impacted by legal and illegal detrimental practices. From education, criminal justice, predatory loans, labor and housing discrimination it goes on and on and it's been going on for a long time.

So before we even get to Reparations, there's a lot that can be done by this country to help make things right. Most African Americans can trace their family back to before independence. Back when this was a group of colonies. There were many opportunities for this country to do the right thing and end slavery and after slavery to make sure that African Americans were properly educated and allowed to build lives for themselves like everyone else. The promise of 40 Acres and a Mule was real. They started to actually do it but took it back.

This is a transcription of an actual letter from Freedmen right after the Civil War and my ancestors had the same experience as these people as they were also in South Carolina at this very time and hoping for the same things from the Government.

Committee of Freedmen on Edisto Island, South Carolina, to the Freedmen's Bureau Commissioner; the Commissioner's Reply; and the Committee to the President

[Edisto Island, S.C., October 20 or 21, 1865]

General It Is with painful Hearts that we the committee address you, we Have thoroughly considered the order which you wished us to Sign, we wish we could do so but cannot feel our rights Safe If we do so,1

General we want Homestead's; we were promised Homestead's by the government,2 If It does not carry out the promises Its agents made to us, If the government Having concluded to befriend Its late enemies and to neglect to observe the principles of common faith between Itself and us Its allies In the war you said was over, now takes away from them all right to the soil they stand upon save such as they can get by again working for your late and their all time enemies. If the government does so we are left In a more unpleasant condition than our former

we are at the mercy of those who are combined to prevent us from getting land enough to lay our Father's bones upon. We Have property In Horses, cattle, carriages, & articles of furniture, but we are landless and Homeless, from the Homes we Have lived In In the past we can only do one of three things Step Into the public road or the sea or remain on them working as In former time and subject to their will as then. We can not resist It In any way without being driven out Homeless upon the road.

You will see this Is not the condition of really freemen

You ask us to forgive the landowners of our Island, You only lost your right arm. In war and might forgive them. The man who tied me to a tree & gave me 39 lashes & who stripped and flogged my mother & my sister & who will not let me stay In His empty Hut except I will do His planting & be Satisfied with His price & who combines with others to keep away land from me well knowing I would not Have anything to do with Him If I Had land of my own. That man, I cannot well forgive. Does It look as If He Has forgiven me, seeing How He tries to keep me In a condition of Helplessness

General, we cannot remain Here In such condition and If the government permits them to come back we ask It to Help us to reach land where we shall not be slaves nor compelled to work for those who would treat us as such

we Have not been treacherous, we Have not for selfish motives allied to us those who suffered like us from a common enemy & then Having gained our purpose left our allies In their Hands There Is no rights secured to us there Is no law likely to be made which our Hands can reach. The state will make laws that we shall not be able to Hold land even If we pay for It Landless, Homeless. Voteless. we can only pray to god & Hope for His Help, your Influence & assistance

With consideration of esteem your Obt Servants
In behalf of the people

Henry Bram
Committe Ishmael Moultrie
yates Sampson

For the next 100 years this is all that African Americans were fighting and asking for. A fair shot to succeed and live like everyone else. We never got that fair chance from this country. There would be no need for reparations if they had just been fair and just.

nixluva wrote:arkrud if you want to read about the many ways that Institutional Racism has negatively impacted African Americans I would suggest you START with this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/why-we-write/459909/

There's a lot more to learn but that at least gives you a rough idea of the real issues. You may see a few prominent successful African Americans but really they are a very small % of the entire population.

I am not against any effort to make live of anyone who is in need of help.
If most of the people in America who need help are African Americans so they all should get help.
There are millions of African Americans who are absolutely OK and successful.
And there are many who are talented, rich, famous, and happy.
For those who are not we should come up with concrete measures.
And if other Americans from minorities or not need help they also need to get it.
Native Americans should not get less help because African Americans were mistreated.
They were mistreated even worth.
Pure Latin American emigrants should also get help. They are not responsible for black Americans issues.
We are all humans and should be treated equally.
And we should be careful at what we wish for.
Russian saying goes: "Who planted wind will harvest the storm".

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:arkrud if you want to read about the many ways that Institutional Racism has negatively impacted African Americans I would suggest you START with this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/why-we-write/459909/

There's a lot more to learn but that at least gives you a rough idea of the real issues. You may see a few prominent successful African Americans but really they are a very small % of the entire population.

I am not against any effort to make live of anyone who is in need of help.
If most of the people in America who need help are African Americans so they all should get help.
There are millions of African Americans who are absolutely OK and successful.
And there are many who are talented, rich, famous, and happy.
For those who are not we should come up with concrete measures.
And if other Americans from minorities or not need help they also need to get it.
Native Americans should not get less help because African Americans were mistreated.
They were mistreated even worth.
Pure Latin American emigrants should also get help. They are not responsible for black Americans issues.
We are all humans and should be treated equally.
And we should be careful at what we wish for.
Russian saying goes: "Who planted wind will harvest the storm".

I don't know why you think you are in a position to actually try to describe the realities of Black life to an actual African American. Your thoughts on things are extremely naive. Perhaps you've never heard of Last Hired, First Fired? There's been a concerted effort from those in power to set things up so that Minorities are kept down and especially Blacks. You may not be aware of how things work but I can assure you that throughout this country there are those in power who make sure things remain the way they've always been.

Slavery was something entirely different and I think you are sorely ignorant of just how bad Slavery actually was. I would suggest that before you keep commenting on it you should perhaps read up on the entire history of the Atlantic slave trade and how Slaves were treated. Native Americans were indeed treated horribly. Because of mistreatment many Native and African Americans wound up living together and intermarrying both here and throughout Latin America and the Islands. So a LOT of Latinos are Black or part Black. People of color are all pretty horribly treated over the course of American History.

As to your comment that Millions of African Americans are "absolutely OK and Successful" just remember that the system doesn't care anything about that. You can still catch a bullet from a Cop no matter how much money you've made. You can still fall victim to discrimination and institutional racism built into the system.

Of course All humans should be treated equally!!! What do you think African Americans have been fighting for for hundreds of years in the Americas???? It's been our fight that has actually made it possible for more equality for EVERYONE!!! The Civil Rights Movement wasn't just about African Americans. Also what do you have against this country paying Reparations anyway? The Wealth of this country was created for FREE. It came on the backs of many Slaves who worked and died for this country to become as successful and wealthy as it has become. There is no America if not for the Slaves.

You can't heal an infection, unless you open it to the environment. Too many of us are holding back how we really feel. So keep this discussion going.....It's turning into a good social history discussion......Everyone expressing his....story!

blkexec wrote:After reading through the thread comments, I'm now curious what the racial distribution is. I have to be honest, I thought this site was only 2% minority.....It's all good, I get along with everybody and it wont change my perspective. But without saying names, I'm really surprised to see peoples responses to such a sensitive topic. And to be honest, the more both sides have these healthy discussions, the closer we will all be to equality. I just don't believe it will ever be equal.....UNLESS......This world goes through another extinction, and God wipes the world clean and starts all over. But as long as our history is written down, these sensitive discussions will go on for ever! At least it's getting better now worst.

You can't heal an infection, unless you open it to the environment. Too many of us are holding back how we really feel. So keep this discussion going.....It's turning into a good social history discussion......Everyone expressing his....story!

2% is definitely way off.

simrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:After reading through the thread comments, I'm now curious what the racial distribution is. I have to be honest, I thought this site was only 2% minority.....It's all good, I get along with everybody and it wont change my perspective. But without saying names, I'm really surprised to see peoples responses to such a sensitive topic. And to be honest, the more both sides have these healthy discussions, the closer we will all be to equality. I just don't believe it will ever be equal.....UNLESS......This world goes through another extinction, and God wipes the world clean and starts all over. But as long as our history is written down, these sensitive discussions will go on for ever! At least it's getting better now worst.

You can't heal an infection, unless you open it to the environment. Too many of us are holding back how we really feel. So keep this discussion going.....It's turning into a good social history discussion......Everyone expressing his....story!

The thing that shocks me is how some don't understand that this country fought a Civil War over one side wanting to keep Slavery and expand it to the new territories. Even after the South lost the war they never changed their views and quickly worked to establish a system that was as close to slavery as they could get it!!! Even after the Civil Rights Legislation of the 60's, those racists in power didn't just disappear!!! They were still there and some of them and their children are still alive.

The U.S. never apologized for Slavery and never made it right. Sure they passed laws but they never addressed the injury and continued oppression. Now we have some Whites trying to say get over it cuz they're tired of dealing with it or talking about it. Some think they're oppressed now. The Truth is that the damage from hundreds of years of slavery and oppression is DEEP in the African American community. To think that it can just easily be overcome with some new law is to completely underestimate the depth and breadth of the problem.

Men from my father's and grandfather's generations have major distrust of white people because of how they were treated. They know first hand the viciousness directed towards them. My family has been in many war this country has fought since the Civil War. My Great, Great Grandfather was in the Civil War 24th Regiment, Co. I of the U.S. Colored Troops. I had 1 Great, Great Uncle and 3 Great Uncles in WWI, my Grandfather was awarded a Bronze Star and Purple Heart in WWII, My dad was in Vietnam. My dad was also an NYPD Lieutenant and his cousin was at one time the highest ranking Black NYPD officer as Deputy Chief. WIth all of this they all faced bitter racism and discrimination throughout their lives. That is the truth about America.

Nix you are 100% correct - the damage over several generations is very hard to make right - if possible at all. People who are not African American have a hard time understanding - I know I had for many years and only get it now after I was forced to give it very extensive and serious thought for personal reasons.

We should talk about it though because I have no idea what should actually happen. There are very good arguments out there made by African Americans that desegregation actually made things worse in the long run so I get it where comments like LJ's are coming from. But the reality of America is we all have to live together - so what can we do as a united people to make it work?

Decades of illegally packing Minorities into ghettos and excluding them from some neighborhoods has also made things worse. Criminal Justice system jailing so many Male Minorities leaves families broken. I can go on and on. A huge part of the problem is that those Racists from the old days and some of their children are still in charge all across the country. They're the ones pushing these laws and buying politicians who can keep things the way they've always been or make things worse. Just look at all the Laws passed to obstruct minorities and Young people from voting.

nixluva wrote:

simrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:After reading through the thread comments, I'm now curious what the racial distribution is. I have to be honest, I thought this site was only 2% minority.....It's all good, I get along with everybody and it wont change my perspective. But without saying names, I'm really surprised to see peoples responses to such a sensitive topic. And to be honest, the more both sides have these healthy discussions, the closer we will all be to equality. I just don't believe it will ever be equal.....UNLESS......This world goes through another extinction, and God wipes the world clean and starts all over. But as long as our history is written down, these sensitive discussions will go on for ever! At least it's getting better now worst.

You can't heal an infection, unless you open it to the environment. Too many of us are holding back how we really feel. So keep this discussion going.....It's turning into a good social history discussion......Everyone expressing his....story!

The thing that shocks me is how some don't understand that this country fought a Civil War over one side wanting to keep Slavery and expand it to the new territories. Even after the South lost the war they never changed their views and quickly worked to establish a system that was as close to slavery as they could get it!!! Even after the Civil Rights Legislation of the 60's, those racists in power didn't just disappear!!! They were still there and some of them and their children are still alive.

The U.S. never apologized for Slavery and never made it right. Sure they passed laws but they never addressed the injury and continued oppression. Now we have some Whites trying to say get over it cuz they're tired of dealing with it or talking about it. Some think they're oppressed now. The Truth is that the damage from hundreds of years of slavery and oppression is DEEP in the African American community. To think that it can just easily be overcome with some new law is to completely underestimate the depth and breadth of the problem.

Men from my father's and grandfather's generations have major distrust of white people because of how they were treated. They know first hand the viciousness directed towards them. My family has been in many war this country has fought since the Civil War. My Great, Great Grandfather was in the Civil War 24th Regiment, Co. I of the U.S. Colored Troops. I had 1 Great, Great Uncle and 3 Great Uncles in WWI, my Grandfather was awarded a Bronze Star and Purple Heart in WWII, My dad was in Vietnam. My dad was also an NYPD Lieutenant and his cousin was at one time the highest ranking Black NYPD officer as Deputy Chief. WIth all of this they all faced bitter racism and discrimination throughout their lives. That is the truth about America.

Nix you are 100% correct - the damage over several generations is very hard to make right - if possible at all. People who are not African American have a hard time understanding - I know I had for many years and only get it now after I was forced to give it very extensive and serious thought for personal reasons.

We should talk about it though because I have no idea what should actually happen. There are very good arguments out there made by African Americans that desegregation actually made things worse in the long run so I get it where comments like LJ's are coming from. But the reality of America is we all have to live together - so what can we do as a united people to make it work?

One thing that seriously hurt Minorities in general was this Conservative push to get rid of Government and Union jobs. Often the only real way that Minorities get a fair shot is when the Government gets involved. Not one Civil Right was won without the U.S. Government getting involved and often having to use force. Slavery took the Civil War. Integrating Schools and public accommodations took National Guard force. It just always ended up the same way. So the old "Last Hired, First Fired" deal that minorities often face has gotten worse as Government and Union jobs have been lost.

Decades of illegally packing Minorities into ghettos and excluding them from some neighborhoods has also made things worse. Criminal Justice system jailing so many Male Minorities leaves families broken. I can go on and on. A huge part of the problem is that those Racists from the old days and some of their children are still in charge all across the country. They're the ones pushing these laws and buying politicians who can keep things the way they've always been or make things worse. Just look at all the Laws passed to obstruct minorities and Young people from voting.

Government and Union jobs are mostly a form of hidden entitlements.
For the most part they are not needed or can be replaced by automation and computerization.
The support provided by feds to minorities is as Social Contract.
Government on behalf of the people expect those who are getting helped to behave accordingly.
And when they not it comes at misbehaved with disproportional enforcement.
Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast.