fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

You are right. They will manage to screw that up too

This is why we need a GM with a plan and for Dolan to stay out of negotiations but that seems impossible

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

That's the sad thing about the situation. No matter what we do, the MSG crew will screw it up. I suppose that we might as well be content watching Melo drop 30 every night because I suspect that it will be the only entertain we'll be getting from Knick games in the immediate future. For all the talk about reshuffling player personnel, the real changes that need to take place is in our front office. That is where the real difference will be made moving forward because we've had some real hacks on the sidelines and in our front office the past decade (possibly excluding Grunwald).

is that actually fun to watch tho?

the real changes that need to take place is in our front office.

that is true, but these are the guys that carmelo cosigned.. woody was the father figure for he and JR smith...

carmelo said last year, that was the most talented team he has ever played with... I mean what went so wrong.. so fast?

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

That's the sad thing about the situation. No matter what we do, the MSG crew will screw it up. I suppose that we might as well be content watching Melo drop 30 every night because I suspect that it will be the only entertain we'll be getting from Knick games in the immediate future. For all the talk about reshuffling player personnel, the real changes that need to take place is in our front office. That is where the real difference will be made moving forward because we've had some real hacks on the sidelines and in our front office the past decade (possibly excluding Grunwald).

is that actually fun to watch tho?

the real changes that need to take place is in our front office.

that is true, but these are the guys that carmelo cosigned.. woody was the father figure for he and JR smith...

carmelo said last year, that was the most talented team he has ever played with... I mean what went so wrong.. so fast?

If I ran MSG, factoring both winning, competing for a title, building the business and the brand... I would work to do something like this:
-Extend MElo.. if he takes less great. If it takes 5/125 then fine.

-Trade JR and Felton for anything... literally anything. They both carry player options for a combined $11mm for the 15/16 season. Thats my cap space year

-Trade Chandler, even if its just for a mid-late first rounder and a couple second rounder. Its a step back back but the picks could help us add your Wilson Chandler/Landry Field types.

-find a floor general that doesnt break the bank. Rubio has bee discussed. Someone who can elevate the level of play that will be a young roster (I view this as the most challening step)

After next year totally purge the roster and look to add a max FA

Melo $25mm, PRigo $1.7, THjr $1.3 Shump $4mm QO, $6mm to resign.

After cap holds we would have Melo, and some check rookie contract guys on the roster and could add another max guy, or have cap space to make funky trades.

That would be my plan over the next two years.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

That's the sad thing about the situation. No matter what we do, the MSG crew will screw it up. I suppose that we might as well be content watching Melo drop 30 every night because I suspect that it will be the only entertain we'll be getting from Knick games in the immediate future. For all the talk about reshuffling player personnel, the real changes that need to take place is in our front office. That is where the real difference will be made moving forward because we've had some real hacks on the sidelines and in our front office the past decade (possibly excluding Grunwald).

is that actually fun to watch tho?

the real changes that need to take place is in our front office.

that is true, but these are the guys that carmelo cosigned.. woody was the father figure for he and JR smith...

carmelo said last year, that was the most talented team he has ever played with... I mean what went so wrong.. so fast?

it is fun yes.. you were the only "Knick fan" who was miserable during the 54 win season, and yes... they should have been in the conf finals. So yes.. I would venture to say that 98% of Knick fans thought last year was fun to watch. I know I did.

If I ran MSG, factoring both winning, competing for a title, building the business and the brand... I would work to do something like this:
-Extend MElo.. if he takes less great. If it takes 5/125 then fine.

-Trade JR and Felton for anything... literally anything. They both carry player options for a combined $11mm for the 15/16 season. Thats my cap space year

-Trade Chandler, even if its just for a mid-late first rounder and a couple second rounder. Its a step back back but the picks could help us add your Wilson Chandler/Landry Field types.

-find a floor general that doesnt break the bank. Rubio has bee discussed. Someone who can elevate the level of play that will be a young roster (I view this as the most challening step)

After next year totally purge the roster and look to add a max FA

Melo $25mm, PRigo $1.7, THjr $1.3 Shump $4mm QO, $6mm to resign.

After cap holds we would have Melo, and some check rookie contract guys on the roster and could add another max guy, or have cap space to make funky trades.

That would be my plan over the next two years.

fish, you do know that 54 win team overachieved.. it was not a contender, the playoffs exposed that... but that is another topic..

lets say we go with your plan... do you honestly believe a team with carmelo, Prigs, shumpert and THJ is even a playoff team? NOw I know you are looking at going after some free agents, but what is the best you can expect from this type of team?

Ricky rubio isn't getting the job done it seems in minny, why do we want to take that on? it seems like the plan is to keep carmelo even if it involves spinning our wheels.

I think we can accomplish a lot more, by going a different direction. this team needs a culture change.. and while I don't blame carmelo for everything that is wrong here, I do hold him, woodson and dolan accountable for the culture we have here. carmelo especially. it is a losing, culture, based on me first and selfish attitudes...

I was at the hawks game last night... they do not have one guy on that team that would be considered a franchise player, Horford is hurt and yet they are over .500 and compete every night? why is that fish? they are playing guys like demari carrol and guys whose names I can't even pronounce... I will say this, they seem to have taken on the personality of their main cogs.. milsap and horford. hard working, unselfish, team oriented guys... are they a contender.. no, but they do have a better foundation in which to build one..

All I am saying is that we have to start looking past carmelo.. trading chandler is not enough, losing amare's salary is not enough.. we need to clean house...

one last thing. why must we look to add another max guy fish? unless that max guy is paul george, lebron or durant.. I say no thanks.. we are going to have to build a unit, ala the pacers that will function as one GREAT team.... enough of these wannabe, overpaid, flawed max players, masquerading as stars...

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

That's the sad thing about the situation. No matter what we do, the MSG crew will screw it up. I suppose that we might as well be content watching Melo drop 30 every night because I suspect that it will be the only entertain we'll be getting from Knick games in the immediate future. For all the talk about reshuffling player personnel, the real changes that need to take place is in our front office. That is where the real difference will be made moving forward because we've had some real hacks on the sidelines and in our front office the past decade (possibly excluding Grunwald).

is that actually fun to watch tho?

the real changes that need to take place is in our front office.

that is true, but these are the guys that carmelo cosigned.. woody was the father figure for he and JR smith...

carmelo said last year, that was the most talented team he has ever played with... I mean what went so wrong.. so fast?

um the talent either got fat, sick, left or was untying shoelaces.

This year we started with horrible or no guard play. Felton out of shape and inneffective. Shump has had 5 good games sandwhiched around 3 months of play that would get him kicked off an NBDL team. Prigo ineffective and hurt. Beno sucks. How can you win basketball games with no backcourt? But yes.. obviously the root of this problem is Melo somehow. Stupid.

fishmike wrote:So TFK blames a losing culture on a player who has never had an NBA losing season and has come to franchise totally mired in a losing decade. Yup... this is why ignore is better. You say the same thing everytime and with little to no wit or tact.

yes i do, and please enough with this never having a losing season, Denver has a HOF coach and had very good talent on that team... but now this is carmelo's situation. His coach, his players, he wanted, he manuevered all of this. from the trade demand to fleecing the team to running dantoni and lin out of NY.. he got his boys kenyon and JR, he got his coach and he got his daddy owner to make all of that happen.. this is on him. Ignore me all you want, it won't change the truth and our record home!!

I guess ignorance is bliss..

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:So TFK blames a losing culture on a player who has never had an NBA losing season and has come to franchise totally mired in a losing decade. Yup... this is why ignore is better. You say the same thing everytime and with little to no wit or tact.

yes i do, and please enough with this never having a losing season, Denver has a HOF coach and had very good talent on that team... but now this is carmelo's situation. His coach, his players, he wanted, he manuevered all of this. from the trade demand to fleecing the team to running dantoni and lin out of NY.. he got his boys kenyon and JR, he got his coach and he got his daddy owner to make all of that happen.. this is on him. Ignore me all you want, it won't change the truth and our record home!!

I guess ignorance is bliss..