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TeamBall
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11/8/2013  9:54 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.


I definitely don't want to take anything away from Ray. I just feel as if he plays a little more freely with Pablo out there. There's something to this 2 PG lineup for the Knicks.

The difference for me was that this time he was doing it as PG and not just when he was playing the 2 with Pablo, where they've had most of their success. It's not like Felton has never done that before, of course, it a matter of Ray doing it consistently.


Agreed. Ray can do it but what gets me is the consistency.
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GustavBahler
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11/8/2013  9:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2013  9:56 PM
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.
TeamBall
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11/8/2013  9:56 PM
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

It's not Pablo, it's the next guy making the extra pass...When Felton brings up the ball and passes it, the ball sticks..The next guy has to swing the ball..Pablo automatically swings it...Melo in a couple of games has been swinging it...The difference is making the extra pass...


I think some of it has to be Pablo. The two times he been in the starting lineup, the Knicks have come out better and have moved the ball more.

I agree that the Knick play better with ball movement but it's not on Felton, one guy can't move the ball for the team..Pablo does make the extra pass...But when Melo makes the extra pass you have the same outcome..When WMP makes the extra pass u have the same outcome ...The team has to make the extra pass...

I didn't really say otherwise. I agree totally, especially with Melo. Things do change greatly when he makes the passes too and not just off a post up. I mean when he's one of the guys swinging the ball.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
PresIke
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11/8/2013  9:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2013  10:00 PM
hah...and the nets lose:

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
holfresh
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11/8/2013  9:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..
CrushAlot
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11/8/2013  10:01 PM
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

He played like a leader tonight. No complaints. He also looked for bargs when he was deep in the post.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
holfresh
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11/8/2013  10:06 PM
TeamBall wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

It's not Pablo, it's the next guy making the extra pass...When Felton brings up the ball and passes it, the ball sticks..The next guy has to swing the ball..Pablo automatically swings it...Melo in a couple of games has been swinging it...The difference is making the extra pass...


I think some of it has to be Pablo. The two times he been in the starting lineup, the Knicks have come out better and have moved the ball more.

I agree that the Knick play better with ball movement but it's not on Felton, one guy can't move the ball for the team..Pablo does make the extra pass...But when Melo makes the extra pass you have the same outcome..When WMP makes the extra pass u have the same outcome ...The team has to make the extra pass...

I didn't really say otherwise. I agree totally, especially with Melo. Things do change greatly when he makes the passes too and not just off a post up. I mean when he's one of the guys swinging the ball.

I thought the point u were making is that Felton needed Pablo...I thought it was more about that next guy making the extra pass, not just Pablo..I think that's why the wanted Shump to handle the ball more in Summer league ..They wanted him to have more of a distributive mentality...He doesn't move that ball as quickly as Pablo does...But it's a team thing, the next guy making the extra pass...
GustavBahler
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11/8/2013  10:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2013  10:08 PM
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

I agree that this is the way to go. You hear about championship teams talking about how on any given night a different player was ready to step up and win the game. Thats the attitude we need. At the same time Melo is our best offensive threat so I expect him to get his share of opportunities to be the man. He became more of a team player last season but some of it was lost in the hype about the scoring title. Melo has shown he can be a team player but he has to show he can do it consistently.
holfresh
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11/8/2013  10:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2013  10:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

He played like a leader tonight. No complaints. He also looked for bargs when he was deep in the post.

My point has always been this..If Melo played with another scorer or another star, this is the way he will play...Durant playing without Westbrook was putting up Melo type numbers...Key tho was ball movement ..I loved that Bargs got into his groove..Lets see if he builds on that..
TeamBall
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11/8/2013  10:16 PM
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

It's not Pablo, it's the next guy making the extra pass...When Felton brings up the ball and passes it, the ball sticks..The next guy has to swing the ball..Pablo automatically swings it...Melo in a couple of games has been swinging it...The difference is making the extra pass...


I think some of it has to be Pablo. The two times he been in the starting lineup, the Knicks have come out better and have moved the ball more.

I agree that the Knick play better with ball movement but it's not on Felton, one guy can't move the ball for the team..Pablo does make the extra pass...But when Melo makes the extra pass you have the same outcome..When WMP makes the extra pass u have the same outcome ...The team has to make the extra pass...

I didn't really say otherwise. I agree totally, especially with Melo. Things do change greatly when he makes the passes too and not just off a post up. I mean when he's one of the guys swinging the ball.

I thought the point u were making is that Felton needed Pablo...I thought it was more about that next guy making the extra pass, not just Pablo..I think that's why the wanted Shump to handle the ball more in Summer league ..They wanted him to have more of a distributive mentality...He doesn't move that ball as quickly as Pablo does...But it's a team thing, the next guy making the extra pass...


I will admit that sometimes it seems to me like he does but I have also seen him distribute just fine without him. Wally made a good point just now. He said with JR out, the Knicks need Ray to score but he's thinking with the PG distribute mindset and having Pablo there helps him kind of shoot more.
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nixluva
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11/8/2013  10:29 PM
Felton isn't a PG with good court vision. He's a scoring PG that is limited to PnR pretty much. That means you have to have another ball mover on the floor in order to make it all work. I think part of the problem has been that the ball tended to stick with Melo and Felton minus another ball mover in the mix and that means you get less shots for Bargs and anyone else. The balance was much better tonight.
holfresh
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11/8/2013  10:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2013  10:48 PM
nixluva wrote:Felton isn't a PG with good court vision. He's a scoring PG that is limited to PnR pretty much. That means you have to have another ball mover on the floor in order to make it all work. I think part of the problem has been that the ball tended to stick with Melo and Felton minus another ball mover in the mix and that means you get less shots for Bargs and anyone else. The balance was much better tonight.

I think it's a philosophical difference...Some people like a PG to dominate the ball and implement all the offense for a team...I myself hate the idea of one guy have the ball that long orchestrating everything...Ball movement is a team concept, it's not on one guy...Chris Paul alone doesn't implement ball movement ..I don't think of the Clippers are great ball movement team...The Spurs are a great ball movement team and I don't think Tony Parker is a great assist guy or the Spurs ball movement starts with Parker...It's always the next guy making the extra pass..Ball movement is a team concept ...

The Knicks problem is the ball sticks and it's some how put on Felton...When have have another guy willing to swing the ball after Felton brings it up then u have ball movement ..U saw it with Kidd, Pablo...I have seen it this season with Melo and MWP...It's a team thing...
GustavBahler
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11/8/2013  10:55 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:Felton isn't a PG with good court vision. He's a scoring PG that is limited to PnR pretty much. That means you have to have another ball mover on the floor in order to make it all work. I think part of the problem has been that the ball tended to stick with Melo and Felton minus another ball mover in the mix and that means you get less shots for Bargs and anyone else. The balance was much better tonight.

I think it's a philosophical difference...Some people like a PG to dominate the ball and implement all the offense for a team...I myself hate the idea of one guy have the ball that long orchestrating everything...Ball movement is a team concept, it's not on one guy...Chris Paul alone doesn't implement ball movement ..I don't think of the Clippers are great ball movement team...The Spurs are a great ball movement team and I don't think Tony Parker is a great assist guy or the Spurs ball movement starts with Parker...It's always the next guy making the extra pass..Ball movement is a team concept ...

The Knicks problem is the ball sticks and it's some how put on Felton...When have have another guy willing to swing the ball after Felton brings it up then u have ball movement ..U saw it with Kidd, Pablo...I have seen it this season with Melo and MWP...It's a team thing...

Felton was also doing a good job of driving and kicking. Helped that he was more aggressive.
nixluva
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11/8/2013  11:18 PM
I think often with the knicks the word we're looking for is decisive. The team looks different when Felton is aggressive because he's being decisive and it doesn't lead to meandering offense with no purpose to the offense. Attacking the basket is infectious and leads to more players looking to get easier baskets and that leads to open shooters off the drive and kick like we saw tonight. It's very good for this team to keep the ball moving and if Felton is driving it's another form of moving the ball since he's drawing the defense in and if he can make the pass that makes it even more effective.
BigDaddyG
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11/8/2013  11:54 PM
PresIke wrote:hah...and the nets lose:

Oh,Oh...The Nets have the same record as the Knicks! Maybe they should fire Kidd, torch their roster and start the rebuilding process lol

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
tkf
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11/9/2013  8:47 AM
holfresh wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

He played like a leader tonight. No complaints. He also looked for bargs when he was deep in the post.

My point has always been this..If Melo played with another scorer or another star, this is the way he will play...Durant playing without Westbrook was putting up Melo type numbers...Key tho was ball movement ..I loved that Bargs got into his groove..Lets see if he builds on that..

YOU ARE So hung up on that false point.... It is going to continue to make you look bad....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
dk7th
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11/9/2013  9:24 AM
nice win last night. knicks have to start someplace even if it's against bottom feeders. breen and clyde kept saying they liked that ab was playing more aggressively, and i agree it is a better look than his deer in the headlights look... but 25 points on 25 shots is not good, plus he had no fta. his fta numbers are low because he clearly has no desire to finish at the rim. i think that has to change as the season goes along, even if it is unlikely.

clyde also spoke more forcefully than i can ever remember before the game about the importance of melo not hesitating to pass the ball immediately once there is a double.

also big respect for anthony's rebounding and assists. one can only hope that he can do this against the bigger and stronger frontcourts as well.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Clean
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11/9/2013  9:30 AM
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

He played like a leader tonight. No complaints. He also looked for bargs when he was deep in the post.

My point has always been this..If Melo played with another scorer or another star, this is the way he will play...Durant playing without Westbrook was putting up Melo type numbers...Key tho was ball movement ..I loved that Bargs got into his groove..Lets see if he builds on that..

YOU ARE So hung up on that false point.... It is going to continue to make you look bad....

I remember he was putting up melo like number in the playoffs last year.
knickscity
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11/9/2013  9:41 AM
dk7th wrote:nice win last night. knicks have to start someplace even if it's against bottom feeders. breen and clyde kept saying they liked that ab was playing more aggressively, and i agree it is a better look than his deer in the headlights look... but 25 points on 25 shots is not good, plus he had no fta. his fta numbers are low because he clearly has no desire to finish at the rim. i think that has to change as the season goes along, even if it is unlikely.

clyde also spoke more forcefully than i can ever remember before the game about the importance of melo not hesitating to pass the ball immediately once there is a double.

also big respect for anthony's rebounding and assists. one can only hope that he can do this against the bigger and stronger frontcourts as well.

Solid post.
holfresh
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11/9/2013  10:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/9/2013  10:31 AM
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I don't know Felton's stats but he was looking to score more this game which is what we need. The offense stagnates when he defers too much.

That's where Pablo helps him a lot

When Felton was running the point he was picking the right moments to take it to the rim, shoot. last few games he hasn't been as agressive. Some of it had to do with the porous D but even against tougher teams he has to keep the defense honest. It does help as we'll to have a willing passer like Pablo but I give Felton most of the credit.

The team is better when Felton is aggressive...It opens up everything...In the third, the pick and pop with Bargs was beautiful to watch ...The offence ran off that..It was really nice to see the office run without Melo...Felton did a great job getting Bargs the looks, and Pablo was on the bench...

I agree, Felton was aggressive without forcing the issue which is exactly what we need right now. You're right about bargs too, they're starting to get on the same page.

But I think it's very important for Melo to lay back and let the team play and gain confidence ...He has to play the way he did tonight going forward, do the little things, rebound more..

He played like a leader tonight. No complaints. He also looked for bargs when he was deep in the post.

My point has always been this..If Melo played with another scorer or another star, this is the way he will play...Durant playing without Westbrook was putting up Melo type numbers...Key tho was ball movement ..I loved that Bargs got into his groove..Lets see if he builds on that..

YOU ARE So hung up on that false point.... It is going to continue to make you look bad....


Just do me a favor, look it up yourself, I refuse to do the legwork for u...Last year playoffs and early this season... Look it up...And if I'm wrong, you can post it right here and embarrass me..I dare u..
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