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Um, from the WTF department, Grunwald out as Knicks GM
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BRIGGS
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9/27/2013  1:25 PM
Nalod wrote:Knicks are run by committee with Winkydink, Gabriel and Grun. They are fine without him.

Mills is a saavy financial guy who Dolan wants on board for MAYBE figuring out how to spend up with the Nets and get a championship run.

The Nets raised the bar and are doing something no other team dares to attempt.

DOlan might see this as something he wants to do.

Why now? Melo can negotiate an extension now, although likley will opt out. Mills might see better into the financial aspect of what other teams will or will not do, and thus impact decisions going forward.

Maybe Mills has convinced Dolan there is a way to get Lebron and since Mills has the polish might go along way to getting him.

Nalod Conjecture.......nothing more.

These guys dont need Mills for money. This is just the good ole boys club coming back together. Im pretty sure it was JIm Dolan who was responsible for spinning off MSG and that move was worth billions--at the end of the day Jim Dolan is a guy who owns and dominates MSG sports and that is that. Everything else said criticized etc.. doesnt mean crp.

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VCoug
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9/27/2013  1:45 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Not that it matters but I don't see how the players will play hard this year knowing the coach will be canned

players don't play hard for their coaches. They play hard for themselves so that they can get bigger contracts. And some may actually be motivated to help the team too.

They might not play hard but they'll certainly quit on coaches and organizations.

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9/27/2013  1:56 PM
nixluva wrote:I think maybe Dolan is thinking about sad old Donnie in a wheelchair trying to relate to Lebron, but instead sending a terrible message that the Knicks weren't the place to be. Whether Lebron would've come here at all doesn't matter. Word got around that Donnie was frail and unimpressive and to a certain extent out of touch with younger Black star players like Lebron that the Knicks will want to try and convince to come here.

Making trades is one thing, but I think Dolan is convinced that getting the modern young athletes to come to NY isn't just a matter of having the money. He doesn't want that to be an excuse in the future. Having Mills and H2O represent the team at meetings is a much better look than Grunwald. I think Isiah convinced Dolan of at least that much and I can't really argue with this sentiment. If that's how Dolan feels based on whatever feedback or rumors he heard then I can understand this move. Who knows for sure but it's a plausible theory.

Similar take in the NYT today...

Knicks Dip Into Past and Bring Back Mills as President and General Manager
By NATE TAYLOR and HARVEY ARATON
In an unexpected move just days before the opening of training camp, the Knicks disclosed Thursday that they were bringing back one of their former executives to serve as team president and general manager.

Steve Mills, one of the highest-ranking officials at Madison Square Garden before departing in June 2009, will replace Glen Grunwald, who had spent the past three seasons helping to transform the Knicks into a competitive team. Grunwald will remain with the team as an adviser. He had been the Knicks’ general manager and executive vice president.

Mills, 53, was the president of Madison Square Garden Sports from 2003 to 2008, a period in which the Knicks were in disarray on and off the court. It was Mills who recommended that Isiah Thomas be hired as the Knicks’ president in December 2003.

The move came to haunt Mills when another team executive he had hired, Anucha Browne Sanders, sued Thomas and the Garden in January 2006, charging sexual harassment. Browne Sanders and the Knicks settled the case for $11.5 million in 2007.

A year after the trial, Mills was replaced as M.S.G. Sports president by Scott O’Neil. Mills had previously ceded authority over the Knicks when the team named Donnie Walsh as team president in April 2008.

Mills, once viewed as a possible successor to Billy Hunter as the executive director of the N.B.A. players union, has never been a general manager. That raises questions about whom he will rely on for input when it comes to personnel decisions.

Because Mills brought Thomas to the Knicks, there is certain to be speculation that Thomas, who has maintained a relationship with Dolan since leaving the Knicks, will have a major voice in the organization, advising Mills regardless of whether the Knicks give him a title.

In August 2010, the Knicks announced that Thomas would return to the team as a part-time consultant while continuing to coach Florida International University. The N.B.A., however, said that such an arrangement would violate its rules.

Thomas has since been dismissed by F.I.U., so that conflict no longer exists. A person with ties to Madison Square Garden and with knowledge of the Knicks’ situation maintained that the hiring of Mills would not set the stage for Thomas to have an influential role with the team.

“This is not an Isiah story,” said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The decision to replace Grunwald, 55, with Mills may be an effort by the Knicks to position themselves for the pursuit of stars.

Dolan may have concluded that Mills, who also worked a number of years for the N.B.A. in addition to his decade with the Knicks, and who got to know a significant number of agents and top players as he vied in recent months for the union job, will be a good person to lead the team’s free-agent efforts.

Those efforts could include finding a way to shed the final part of Amar’e Stoudemire’s contract after this season to create cap maneuverability and possibly even make another run at LeBron James when he becomes eligible for free agency next summer. Mills could also lead an effort to lure another star player to the Knicks after this season, in part to persuade Carmelo Anthony to stay in New York. Anthony can opt out of his contract next summer.

It seems possible that the Knicks, feeling the pressure of a much more visible and competitive Nets team nearby in Brooklyn, have concluded that their team needs a more accessible public face and that Mills would do well in that role.

Since joining the Knicks in 2006 from the Toronto Raptors and taking over as general manager in June 2011, Grunwald has infrequently engaged with reporters, although he has only been following the Dolan playbook, which has generally restricted media access to team executives, including himself.

In his time in charge, Grunwald made some adept moves, taking a chance on Jeremy Lin, a journeyman who became a phenomenon, albeit a short-lived one.

He also signed Tyson Chandler, a steady presence in the middle for the last two seasons. One of his most recent moves was to sign the talented, and sometimes combustible, veteran Metta World Peace to a two-year deal.

Grunwald will now advise Mills, at least to some extent. But Mills, who played college basketball at Princeton, can also turn to two Knicks front-office executives — John Gabriel and Mark Warkentien — who were previously N.B.A. general managers, Gabriel with Orlando and Warkentien with Denver. In addition, Mills will work with Allan Houston, a former Knicks star and the current assistant general manager.

Mills most recently was working as the chief executive of Athletes and Entertainers Wealth Management.

In a statement, Dolan said Mills was the “right person to help us reach our ultimate goal of winning an N.B.A. championship.”

That might eventually happen, although in the immediate future Mills might be happy just keeping the Knicks ahead of the Nets.

azamatbagatov
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9/27/2013  2:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2013  2:35 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
azamatbagatov wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

He did his work for this year. When would have been a good time to let him go? And/or if this is a strategic move (and obviously I have no idea that it is), why wait?

If they didn't trust him to move forward, why would they let him keep his job this offseason and shape the team for the next 2 years? Dolan could have hired Mills as president of the team again and not as GM to maximize his relationships with the "buttload of agents and counterparts"

No amount of spin will paint this move as something that makes sense.

Did we really want Grunmy making decisions for after this season? Forgot about Mills for a moment and consider this? Yes/No?

No, I wish this were done before got stuck with GarBargnani. Why even have even him run this offseason? which i think would be a pretty big offseason following up our most successful season in at least 13-14 years?

"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
azamatbagatov
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9/27/2013  2:33 PM
Markji wrote:
Nalod wrote:Knicks are run by committee with Winkydink, Gabriel and Grun. They are fine without him.

Mills is a saavy financial guy who Dolan wants on board for MAYBE figuring out how to spend up with the Nets and get a championship run.

The Nets raised the bar and are doing something no other team dares to attempt.

DOlan might see this as something he wants to do.

Why now? Melo can negotiate an extension now, although likley will opt out. Mills might see better into the financial aspect of what other teams will or will not do, and thus impact decisions going forward.

Maybe Mills has convinced Dolan there is a way to get Lebron and since Mills has the polish might go along way to getting him.

Nalod Conjecture.......nothing more.


Then make Mills President of MSG and be the spokesman. No reason to fire Grunwald if Dolan wanted to hire Mills. Same answer to Martin's talk about Mills being more in tune and likable to the young black athlete which, if true, I do think is a valid reason for hiring Mills. But again as President. Firing Grunwald in a fit of ego from Dolan just shows great instability in the organization. If I were an eleite Bball player, I would stay as far away from MSG and Dolan as possible.

+1,000,000. That also holds especially true for an elite executive or coach with the way that we treat the coaches/GM's who have been here (not named Isiah)

"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
smackeddog
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9/27/2013  2:54 PM
Nalod wrote:
The Nets raised the bar and are doing something no other team dares to attempt.

What, do a massive starphuck, mortgaging your future, putting yourself in cap hell for the next few years with no picks and no contingency plan in order to obtain injury prone, past it players that won't get you a championship? We wrote the book on that!

gunsnewing
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9/27/2013  2:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2013  3:04 PM
I see people who've been very critical of Grunwald now criticizing the Knicks for the way they sacked him. You have to be consistent and fair otherwise it comes accross like you will bash every move no matter what.

For all the abuse I take, being called a hater, somber, reactionary fan I try to be fair and not blinded by disillusion either. We can try to put a positive spin on this. The bottom line line is the old regime is back in place. The same regime that made us the laughing stock of the league for over a decade.

Yes Mills might have more cache in attracting players. Question is will it be the right players this time?

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9/27/2013  3:00 PM
JamesKPolk wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
nixluva wrote:Who knows what this means? Who can say if this is gonna end up good or bad? Right now it's just confusing more than anything. I want to know why it was necessary to basically fire Grunwald? I thought he was doing the bidding of Dolan, so why would he be demoted? Perhaps the moves they're been making haven't really been directed by Dolan/Isiah as much as we thought or maybe this is a move away from Isiah and his cronies. Maybe Dolan is moving towards Mills to clear the way for Houston.

Well, you're here trying to rationalize and apologize already. Can't say I'm not surprised. The Knicks can hire back Isiah Thomas as GM and you would try and spin it in some way.

Allan Houston has proven nothing at all that tells us that he will be a good GM. Being a good guy and a good former player doesn't qualify him.

Dude...you seriously need to chill.

The mature thing to do IS to take the wait and see approach. We can huff and puff all we went but thats not going to change anything. Whether we like it or not, Steve Mills is back and all we can really do is hope that things will be different this time around.

You're a fan of this team with Dolan as our owner and you're telling me to chill. As if any move this man has made that wasn't forced upon him (Walsh) has worked out in the past 15 years. The man is a cancer to the organization and yet he continues to march on because he has fans like nixluva and others playing up the "let's wait and see" approach. Wait and see for what? Our GM was just fired before the season started and replaced with a moron who hired and harbored morons during his failed tenure here previously. What is there to "wait and see" exactly? More failure? How does anyone still have confidence in James Dolan's moves after all these years? Why do people need to rationalize every goddamn move this franchise makes and try to look on the bright side? When has there ever been a bright side to a Dolan move? When has Dolan ever done something to help the team? Why must we have this discussion every single time the Knicks make an awful move? Do people just not learn? Answer these questions and maybe then I'll "chill".

If I dont hope for the best then I'll just be another disgruntled fan upset about something that I have no control over.

I agree with everything you said about Dolan...I wish Grunwald stayed on has GM for this club but, again, not my decision. All I can do is HOPE that these people learn from their past mistakes.

and my bad for telling you to "chill"...not my place and this is a forum to vent and discuss

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9/27/2013  3:18 PM
Dolan doesn't realize no franchise-changing talent would take less money to play for him and ruin his career. Does anyone here actually think some scrub like Steve Mills is going to be the deciding factor for free agents? Everyone knows James Dolan is a terrible owner. Steve Mills is going to do jack **** for this team. Him being black is not enough to recruit free agents here.
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9/27/2013  3:27 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I see people who've been very critical of Grunwald now criticizing the Knicks for the way they sacked him. You have to be consistent and fair otherwise it comes accross like you will bash every move no matter what.

For all the abuse I take, being called a hater, somber, reactionary fan I try to be fair and not blinded by disillusion either. We can try to put a positive spin on this. The bottom line line is the old regime is back in place. The same regime that made us the laughing stock of the league for over a decade.

Yes Mills might have more cache in attracting players. Question is will it be the right players this time?

For me, it's not the fact that Grunwald was fired. It's the timing, the probable reasons, and who's replacing him.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
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9/27/2013  3:28 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I see people who've been very critical of Grunwald now criticizing the Knicks for the way they sacked him. You have to be consistent and fair otherwise it comes accross like you will bash every move no matter what.

For all the abuse I take, being called a hater, somber, reactionary fan I try to be fair and not blinded by disillusion either. We can try to put a positive spin on this. The bottom line line is the old regime is back in place. The same regime that made us the laughing stock of the league for over a decade.

Yes Mills might have more cache in attracting players. Question is will it be the right players this time?

I have been very critical of Grunwald this offseason. Mainly due to the horrendous Bargnani trade and giving JR 4 years with knee surgery iminent and no competition for his services. I actually like the the other moves he made this offseason to fill out the roster. Udrih & Artest mostly.

My issue is why fire him after all of his work his done if you don't think he can do the job in the first place. 2nd, firing the guy 4 days before camp opens shows a TON of instability and dysfunction. Those are 2 things that don't attract winning players, executives and coaches. Lastly replacing him with Steve Mills?!?!? We all know Steve Mills' track record.

Look at how completely and totally unsuccessful Jay-Z was in bring top class free agents to play in Brooklyn. Jay-Z couldn't but Steve Mills can somehow convince the Lebron's of the world to come play in this zoo? I highly doubt it.

They could have kept Grunwald and brought in Mills to do exactly that as well. This whole move just reeks of typical Dolan bull****

"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
smackeddog
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9/27/2013  3:43 PM
VCoug wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I see people who've been very critical of Grunwald now criticizing the Knicks for the way they sacked him. You have to be consistent and fair otherwise it comes accross like you will bash every move no matter what.

For all the abuse I take, being called a hater, somber, reactionary fan I try to be fair and not blinded by disillusion either. We can try to put a positive spin on this. The bottom line line is the old regime is back in place. The same regime that made us the laughing stock of the league for over a decade.

Yes Mills might have more cache in attracting players. Question is will it be the right players this time?

For me, it's not the fact that Grunwald was fired. It's the timing, the probable reasons, and who's replacing him.

Same with me. I'm fed up of personnel moves being based not on performance but on weird Dolan whims based on 'loyalty' and obedience. Obit I suppose if you got your job based solely on your daddy, why would you believe in merit?

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9/27/2013  6:45 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I see people who've been very critical of Grunwald now criticizing the Knicks for the way they sacked him. You have to be consistent and fair otherwise it comes accross like you will bash every move no matter what.

For all the abuse I take, being called a hater, somber, reactionary fan I try to be fair and not blinded by disillusion either. We can try to put a positive spin on this. The bottom line line is the old regime is back in place. The same regime that made us the laughing stock of the league for over a decade.

Yes Mills might have more cache in attracting players. Question is will it be the right players this time?

Not sure how or why Mills would attract more players. When I start to speculate about this move what I think sounds crazy so I have held back from writing it. Grunwald was doing a good job with limited resources. The talk about the 2015 plan is fine but Grunwald was the one that made the Bargs trade. I don't see how Steve Mills improves the Knicks chances on any front. The Knicks tried bringing in a coach that would attract free agents and it didn't work. Not sure what circles Steve Mills runs in but NY has high income tax rates, a crazy @ss impulsive owner, and a gm that doesn't have any experience.
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9/27/2013  8:05 PM
Why such a noice?
I think this is irrelevant.
The circus move out of town but clowns stay.
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Put them in the Garden sand castle and then stump it with his little dic..k...
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9/28/2013  5:43 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Nalod wrote:
The Nets raised the bar and are doing something no other team dares to attempt.

What, do a massive starphuck, mortgaging your future, putting yourself in cap hell for the next few years with no picks and no contingency plan in order to obtain injury prone, past it players that won't get you a championship? We wrote the book on that!

+1

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9/28/2013  7:43 AM
TheloniusMonk wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Nalod wrote:
The Nets raised the bar and are doing something no other team dares to attempt.

What, do a massive starphuck, mortgaging your future, putting yourself in cap hell for the next few years with no picks and no contingency plan in order to obtain injury prone, past it players that won't get you a championship? We wrote the book on that!

+1

True, But Dolan has not attempted to do this in the current CBA which takes what Nets are attempting to do to a whole new level!!!

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9/28/2013  7:48 AM
Isola not friendly toward Dolan:


DAILY NEWS
Knicks
Knicks' hiring of Steve Mills is just James Dolan up to old tricks
With the Brooklyn Nets having won the offseason with several franchise-changing moves and Dolan still bitter about a second-round playoff loss to the Indiana Pacers, the impulsive owner of the Knicks decided it was time for a shakeup.

BY FRANK ISOLA / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

PUBLISHED: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2013, 10:46 PM
UPDATED: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2013, 10:46 PM

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Will Mike Woodson receive a contract extension now that the Knicks have a new GM at the helm?
Steve Mills was closing in on possibly succeeding Billy Hunter as head of the NBA players’ union and was also being mentioned as a candidate to become athletic director at his alma mater, Princeton, when suddenly James Dolan re-entered his life.

“Jim is comfortable with Steve,” said a person close to both executives. “Steve knows how to work with Jim. They both know what they’re getting into. I think that familiarity helped. This move was Jim’s.”

Dolan, the chairman of Madison Square Garden, always liked and respected Mills and never felt comfortable with firing him as president of MSG five years earlier.

With the Brooklyn Nets having won the offseason with several franchise-changing moves and Dolan still bitter about a second-round playoff loss to the Indiana Pacers, the impulsive owner of the Knicks decided it was time for a shakeup.

RELATED: LUPICA: KNICKS GM MOVE LATEST PROOF DOLAN HAS NO CLUE

The same source confirmed that Dolan felt that Glen Grunwald, who was demoted on Thursday from general manager to adviser, hadn’t done enough to bolster the roster over the summer and felt he needed to make a change despite the Knicks coming off their best season in 13 years. The hiring of Mills as the Knicks’ new president and general manager seemingly came out of nowhere because it did. It was a case of Dolan being Dolan and looking to blame someone for losing to a lower-seeded team and for the Nets invading his territory.

What remains unclear is how the appointment of Mills will affect several key members of the organization. Head coach Mike Woodson, Grunwald’s former college teammate at Indiana, appears safe for now. Last spring, Woodson guided the Knicks to their first playoff series win since 2000, and he has the backing of Carmelo Anthony. Woodson is entering the final year of his contract and there already have been discussions of the Knicks offering him an extension as a sign of stability.

However, Dolan isn’t afraid to absorb a lucrative contract. If the Knicks take a turn for the worse during the regular season, Woodson becomes the easy scapegoat.

The future of Mark Warkentien, the club’s director of player personnel, also is murky. Warkentien previously worked with the Denver Nuggets and has helped transform the Knicks into the New York Nuggets. Anthony, J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby all played for the Knicks last season and all but Camby, traded to Toronto for Andrea Bargnani, are back.

RELATED: GRUNWALD OUT AS KNICKS GM, REPLACED BY MILLS

Warkentien’s link to Camby can hurt him just as Woodson’s link to Rasheed Wallace does not bode well. Dolan was upset that the Knicks placed too much faith in older players last season, only to see them fade either before or during the playoffs. Woodson pushed for the club to sign Wallace, who was eventually forced to retire with a foot injury. Kurt Thomas was released after sustaining a broken foot and Camby was seldom used.

Meanwhile, Jason Kidd struggled during the playoffs and eventually retired — only to resurface as head coach of the Nets, a move that likely didn’t sit well with Dolan, either.

Mills has little to no history with either Woodson or Warkentien, which leaves both men vulnerable. Allan Houston, however, should benefit from Mills’ arrival. Houston has been a Dolan favorite for more than a decade and is always left standing whenever a front-office shakeup occurs. The theory is that Mills will run the business side of the organization and Houston will have an increased role in the day-to-day operations on the basketball side.

Both will report directly to Dolan, which is crucial for Mills since Hank Ratner, the vice chairman of MSG, was the driving force behind Mills being fired in the wake of the Anucha Browne Sanders sexual harassment lawsuit. Ratner, according to a source, was not sold on re-hiring Mills but ultimately he was over-ruled by the one man who calls the shots at MSG and is Mills’ best friend all over again.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-old-tricks-calling-shakeup-article-1.1470237#ixzz2gBf1iD2K

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9/28/2013  8:02 AM
Why is the timing a bad thing? All the moves for the season are done and the roster is set. The move is questionable but the timing is not bad in my opinion. If the players do not perform well its on Grunny and leaves Mills with a reason to make a move without as much criticism.

Like Gunz I am surprise to see(not really) some of the same posters who bash Grunny are so upset he is gone. Then again it could be that they are upset at who is replacing him but I imagine they would criticize a move no matter what. I could bee wrong on the latter.

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9/28/2013  10:33 AM
If Isola's piece is true and Dolan didn't think we improved enough over the summer, what the heck did he want Grunnie to do. We had a late 1st rounder, no second round pick, no cap space, one tiny MMLE, no ability to sign and trade, and every extra dollar of salary we aquirred would lead to a massive tax bill. Guess Dolan was the moron who demanded we try and get Monta Ellis.
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9/28/2013  10:42 AM
smackeddog wrote:If Isola's piece is true and Dolan didn't think we improved enough over the summer, what the heck did he want Grunnie to do. We had a late 1st rounder, no second round pick, no cap space, one tiny MMLE, no ability to sign and trade, and every extra dollar of salary we aquirred would lead to a massive tax bill. Guess Dolan was the moron who demanded we try and get Monta Ellis.

dolan isnt a rational person, he wont think like that, what he will do is get pissed that the Nets are getting a ton of praise while the Knicks are being dismissed.

thats enough for Dolan to react.

Um, from the WTF department, Grunwald out as Knicks GM

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