playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

playa2 wrote:I never said President Obama was in on it , Fishmike your getting desperate trying to twist words trying to paint me as a Anti -American. I served my country proudly and was willing to die for it. Let's agree to disagree my friend. Just by studying the history of our country on we have ran false flag events for a greater agenda. Ever heard of Operation northwoods ? I bet not ! Google it and get a clue.

Now these people are so sick , they will use children to get your guns away from even you law abiding citizens.

Again: what is the threat of even a large cache of civilian weapons in the hands of competent amateurs versus the United States Armed Forces? I'm not sure the Government is out to do everything you think it is, but if it is, I say they've already won. If they would kill kids to accomplish your goals, why would they be scared of small arms?

And I don't even need much more than COINTELPRO to imagine what the US Government has done and is capable of in terms of counterintelligence against US citizens. But if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. If you have a fundamental distrust of this country's government, everything is a conspiracy.

If people believe everything the media tells them along with the govt talking heads, then they have you right where they want you (Scared & Naive)

...and buying whatever it is they are hawking during the commercial breaks.

You see a sinister top-down conspiracy amongst us, it seems. You are part of the enlightened. Those around you are the scared, blinded, naive sheep. You know what another word for enlightened is? Illuminati. I find it funny how those who see this light seem to act like this.

I see a multitude of motives, largely lead by profit and power motives. But if you think I going to feel safer having a large cache of weapons in the hands of a veteran who feel the need to arm themselves against the very same government they served for... you actually just gave me another thing to worry about. No offense intended. But if it was the olden days, I probably would have just ended up a Quaker.

Money profits ? They already have that, when people have enough money for themselves and their grand kids kids. The only motivation they have is controlling people's lives.

Let Brooklyn native Aaron Russo tell ya why they think this way !

You're bringing in religion now too? If satan was real, he'd be happy to let you keep as many guns you'd like.

smackeddog wrote:

playa2 wrote:I have to ask this question (Serious) Is there one witness who saw Adam Lanza shoot anybody if the perp had a mask on ?
How about the Colorado shooting, wasn't he dressed up with gas mask and body covered up, did anyone say they could identify it was James Holmes with red hair ?

You only believed what the media told you even though not one eyewitness can prove they saw them shoot anyone even though people died.

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief. I'm done with this.

Sheesh- the world view of some gun owners on this thread! Do guns give off some sort of chemical that makes their owners paranoid?!

No the operative word is STUPID.

Bad guys will ALWAYS have guns, always

The only thing banning guns does is give up the very last drop of true freedom you people have left

playa2 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

skeng wrote:It's still somewhat unclear what your point is playa? The government set up all the shootings since Columbine? What is the gain in those?

And the video you just posted is called "NRA: The Untold etc.". That doesn't hint at any bias?

Here ya go Skeng, for all those who still don't believe what I'm saying, GOD BLESS YOU !

Being afraid of what he says only means you can't handle this truth.

That was one funny video!

Was that Dick Cheney with a rifle?

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Making guns illegal is a solution but I do not think it is a possibility in US.
It is possible to do and was done in totalitarian countries because to make it work you need a total control of people lives.
It was done in countries which are advanced enough to reject violence. US is surrey not - we embrace it in movies, comic books, video games, sports, entertainment. So we collectively get what we are asking for.
In US this ban will only lead to creation of all-powerful gun mafia same as it did with boos and drags.
Mafia will get the biggest gains from this ban.
Every kid can get drugs from drug dealers any time he want in any place in this country. He just need money and sometimes he will get drugs for free to make him an addict and a "good customer" in the future.Why this will be different with guns?
We need to stop glorify violence even if violence is done by "good guys" and "superheros". Can we?
I am not sure. It is much more difficult that just ban the guns.

ahhh... no, no they cant. Again, more totally fabricated notions to support an opnion.

You want drugs you have to look and ask, and that looking and asking alone may lead to you getting caught. Yes, in high school (80s) weed and beer were mostly available if you knew someone with an older sybling or connection. Anything harder was rare, and if you got desperate for weed and had go buy off the street you were at pretty big risk of getting caught, getting your ass kicked or getting ripped off. So no, any kid that says "lets get high" cant just go out and do it. Sorry.

Mentall illness is a much bigger issue.

Its not the mafia and drug guns that are the problem. Those are mostly used on other mafia and drug gangs/dealers.

I agree that this small provincial places have less drag availability but in NY, NJ, LA... you go to certain place and you will find drug dealer at every corner.
Yes you can get in trouble by asking... but with guns when somebody determined to go on shooting spree... he will take chance to ask.
Guns are banned in Russia but terrorist came to school in Beslan and killed hundreds of people, mostly kids.
There are better solutions but they are costly.
For example with all the endless Jihad and Islamic terror attacks that hit Israel, kids in schools are safe because every school has armed guards at points of entry. People never barge into schools in Israel and start a shooting rampage. They would be shot and killed immediately. You cannot murder children in Israeli schools because the adults treat them like the priceless treasures they are.
We do have guards in NYC schools especially in bad neighborhoods so why not to make it a requirement. It will be a good use of Army and Reserve to serve the society and will create a lot of jobs in security firms.

agree... but your examples are not good because they have little relevence here. The Russian attack came in an area of a hundred years of ethnic hate and violence. The Israeli school example also doesnt fit as they are a military state and under constant attack of that nature.

And I live in NJ, and if you dont know someone you have to go to an area of very high risk if you want to buy drugs off a street. There's a damn good chance that dopey rich kids driving around slummy areas in nice cars asking random dudes where they can get some hooch are gonna get caught and fast. It *seems* easy but its not that easy and its high risk. The deterent works (breaking the law).

Its got to be harder to get these types of weapons. They were all legally aquired. You cant stop this crime, but the laws work and the evidence cant be refuted. There is no solution, but it doesnt mean there cant be progress. (assuming fake crying Obamo doesnt order more attacks on children to push his legislation)

Israel is not a military state. You probably never visited otherwise you will now that this is liberal propoganda nonsense.
Israely people are bearing arms to protect their state and their people from enemies who cannot accept their existence.
Is it the same as we Americans are stand for and were made of?
There is no middle ground here - or we all have rights to protect themselves with guns or nobody has.
Instead we as society want to come up with some "politically correct" solution to please everybody.
Time to stop this bs and make a decision what is more important and essential - freedom or security.

no... never been to Israel. Have some friends who have an and served in the army as that is mandatory. It is a 100% a military state. Just check the population vs the size of the army and military resources. Yes, its for their protection for the reasons you mention. My point is simply they have a threat the US does not.

There's always a middle ground. Concessions can be made by both sides. Its legal to drink and drive right? Its legal to look at porn right? Its legal to own a firearm right? But can I get loaded and drive? Can I look at porn of 14 year old girls? Can I leave my firearm loaded in the glove comp just in case? Yes to all, but I face the law, and those laws catch people and work. Nothing will ever stop folks from doing what they want, but a guy with 50 guns was just taken into custody, kiddie porn trafficers are jailed and those who look at the material are at risk and often caught and drunk drivers are caught and those deaths have dropped since those laws took place.

Military state is not the state where everybody have to and by the way like to join the army but state which is controlled by military
commanders. Israel is democratic state controlled by elected government. Army is what they must use to exist.
Cannot agree more - the lows are working but they cannot prevent every shooting and every crime. To have a low is not enough.
The society must change to stop promoting and commercializing violence. People with weak minds cannot stop playing the computer game or watch action movie and take or to the street or to the school. You cannot bun all of this by creating new lows and bans.
It's a good old thing - "All we need is Love, Love is all we need"

agree on all this... your right about Israel, and thats honestly what I meant, just meaning that the military there is everywhere because it has to be. They have armed guards at schools to protect against a clearly defined threat. Whats ours?

Agree 100% on the love part also man. Understanding and compassion is where it must start, but those are not gov instilled values, they are community. I dont have the answer there, except as parent I take responsibility for my kids. I was lucky to grow up in a house free of racism and hate. Im passing that along. Some are not so lucky, and some are just broken. Action is always important though, even if its effectiveness is in question.

Pretty good article too summ it all on good live example.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-us-should-learn-from-israel-how-to-permit-not-outlaw-guns/2012/12/16/
It is time to stop yapping and start working on the solutions.
But not sure if our buroucratic governments on all levels can do any work. And this is really sad...

The Jewish Press is one of the most right wing papers you can ever read, strictly catering to the ultra orthodox.

fishmike wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

playa2 wrote:I have to ask this question (Serious) Is there one witness who saw Adam Lanza shoot anybody if the perp had a mask on ?
How about the Colorado shooting, wasn't he dressed up with gas mask and body covered up, did anyone say they could identify it was James Holmes with red hair ?

You only believed what the media told you even though not one eyewitness can prove they saw them shoot anyone even though people died.

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief. I'm done with this.

Sheesh- the world view of some gun owners on this thread! Do guns give off some sort of chemical that makes their owners paranoid?!

No the operative word is STUPID.

i guess playa isnt done with this after all?

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief at someone who says he was US military and would die for his country and posts videos of the president with commentary saying his tears were fake as he had some role in ordering the massacre of 6 year old children. Remember folks, information is as good as the source. Check your source

Not to call out Obama, I personally find it disingenuous when any politician cries in public. I am a skeptic, yes - its just how I feel.

That being said, I am sure there are exceptions but very very few.

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

playa2 wrote:I have to ask this question (Serious) Is there one witness who saw Adam Lanza shoot anybody if the perp had a mask on ?
How about the Colorado shooting, wasn't he dressed up with gas mask and body covered up, did anyone say they could identify it was James Holmes with red hair ?

You only believed what the media told you even though not one eyewitness can prove they saw them shoot anyone even though people died.

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief. I'm done with this.

Sheesh- the world view of some gun owners on this thread! Do guns give off some sort of chemical that makes their owners paranoid?!

No the operative word is STUPID.

i guess playa isnt done with this after all?

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief at someone who says he was US military and would die for his country and posts videos of the president with commentary saying his tears were fake as he had some role in ordering the massacre of 6 year old children. Remember folks, information is as good as the source. Check your source

Not to call out Obama, I personally find it disingenuous when any politician cries in public. I am a skeptic, yes - its just how I feel.

That being said, I am sure there are exceptions but very very few.

And even if he let himself get emotional to "better connect" (or some such political play) with the common man can you stretch that into he was faking because he had prior knowledge of the attack and possibly even a role ordering it? Psychobabble bullsh!t and as unpatriotic as it gets.

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

playa2 wrote:I have to ask this question (Serious) Is there one witness who saw Adam Lanza shoot anybody if the perp had a mask on ?
How about the Colorado shooting, wasn't he dressed up with gas mask and body covered up, did anyone say they could identify it was James Holmes with red hair ?

You only believed what the media told you even though not one eyewitness can prove they saw them shoot anyone even though people died.

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief. I'm done with this.

Sheesh- the world view of some gun owners on this thread! Do guns give off some sort of chemical that makes their owners paranoid?!

No the operative word is STUPID.

i guess playa isnt done with this after all?

Rolling my eyes shaking my head in unbelief at someone who says he was US military and would die for his country and posts videos of the president with commentary saying his tears were fake as he had some role in ordering the massacre of 6 year old children. Remember folks, information is as good as the source. Check your source

Not to call out Obama, I personally find it disingenuous when any politician cries in public. I am a skeptic, yes - its just how I feel.

That being said, I am sure there are exceptions but very very few.

sure... but maybe you give a father of two a pass when he's talking about 6-7 year old children being slaughtered in a class room? And the guy wasnt openly crying. He took like 15 secs to wipe a tear take a deep breath and keep reading the que card.

And even if he let himself get emotional to "better connect" (or some such political play) with the common man can you stretch that into he was faking because he had prior knowledge of the attack and possibly even a role ordering it? Psychobabble bullsh!t and as unpatriotic as it gets.

Yeah. I don't think its faked - its your "better connect" argument. I loved Clinton and he did this many times. Just not my thing.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes. What was alcohol created for? For recreation? For relaxation? Or for directly causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people each year in traffic accidents.

We legislated alcohol out of existence. How did that work out?

You cannot legislate behaviour. The revolving logic that holds doggedly to the idea that creating laws about inanimate things will keep criminals from doing bad things is the height of ignorance. Prohibition stopped law abiding people from getting alcohol. It did not stop bootleggers and organized crime. Gin flowed.

Gun control stops law-abiding people like you and me from getting AK-47's and the like; it won't stop people who are bound and determined to do evil. It's a big world, there are ways to get whatever you want.

And I don't own a gun, and I've never hunted in my life.

Nuts have used fertilizer and box cutters to kill hundreds and thousands. We increased security. Legislation about fertilizer and box cutters should be on the way.

And lots of folks I know don't target shoot at silouhettes of people. They shoot at targets...bulleyes.

You have a society that glorifies and pumps out CGI violence in all forms, and then you cry for the laws to resolve everything when atrocious massacres like this happen, over and over again.

The mall, the movie theatre, schools, the airport, the embassies... it goes on and on and on.

Change your society. Concentrate on that abstract connection between the morality and the things that are real. That's really not that abstract at all.

assuming this is directed at me.

Alcohol and guns are the same? OK... but your 10000% wrong, because you CAN legislate behavior. Have drunk driving fatalities gone down? Yes they have. Tougher drunk driving rules have reduced the accidents.

Nothing will eliminate the threat. Nobody is suggesting such a solution. But those who would say non action? Well I guess since about 17k were killed in booze related traffic fatalities why bother to legislate it all?

Sorry, but the legislation works and the numbers prove it.

Your right.. change society. The problem is people cant agree on how. In the meantime its OK to pass laws that protect citizens. There's a reason you cant buy dynomite at Home Depot, and there is a reason regular citizens should not have weapons designed to kill and do so with speed, acuracy and quantity. If this guy had to reload after 3 shots a lot more kids are in that school. Thats the reality.

No, you see, the reality is he didn't get the guns legally. He stole them. So if he couldn't steal them from him mom, did that mean he says, oh well, I guess i'm stymied?

Here's a newsflash for you. He could go on the internet and find someone to buy the gun/fetilizer/c4/plutonium from. Good, law-abiding people don't do things like that. That's the problem. The people who do atrocities like this are not "regular citizens".
This person shot his mother in the face, point blank. He didn't need to reload.

And lets follow your logic. He couldn't get his hands on a Bushmaster or a handgun that fires off more than three rounds. So, instead he has what? 6 or 7 handguns that fire three rounds each? You do the math. And how tough is it to find someone who will show you step by step how to adjust your safe, three round only weapon to fire 30 at a clip?

Counting bullets is not going to solve anything, and thinking it will is beyond reality. It's a pacifier for the horror.

Do you honestly think the majority of your drug dealers, gang bangers and lunatic fringe groups are going to be worried about the nice legislation you're going to put in place to stop them from getting and distributing these weapons?

You don't learn from the past, then you repeat it. And saying we don't know how to change society, but it's okay to pass laws is a bit confusing.

Next week, it will be legislation on gasoline.

dumbest statement I have ever read. This is why the most prolific and funded terrorist organization used box cutters to hijack planes. Why go through all that pilot training when they could have just ordered a nuke on amazon.

You missed the point on the 3 bullets. If the weapon can be altered to fire more its illegal. As I said banning guns wont work in the this country, but anything that can be done to protect citizens should be looked at.

Whats the action your proposing to this discussion jrod?

You miss the point entirely, but that's okay. Calling my statement dumb is always a nice comeback.

What action do I propose? Something beyond the standard knee-jerk gun control argument. Something beyond the "we can't agree on how to change society" so let's get a band-aid. Why do we have these massacres over and over again? What causes someone to do these things? How does someone stare at other people and pull the trigger over and over again? We don't want to answer that question because it has moral implications. It has nothing to do with "people can't agree on how."

It's not like we don't have a large enough sample size.

I really don't know how high or how young the body count has to get to where we finally figure out that society needs to change, and that it's not going to change by having more forms to fill out, or another bill to pass. Then maybe we'll be on to something.

This nation is slowly destroying itself from the inside. Read some history, even if it's from "the stone age". It's quite enlightening.

Better yet, just ignore it, and post a new sign. It's easier.

are you politian? I asked what your proposal was, and you offered some pretty words... something beyond a knee jerk reaction. What is it? You have said nothing in your post.

Your statement was dumb. Suggesting the average criminal can aquire ingredients to create potent weapons over the internet is wrong. Its made up to support your view or arguement, which isnt clear.

So again, pretty please with sugar on top speak of your real world solutions.

And what are you, a liberal congressman?

Again, you generalize to sound intelligent. My point was you can buy just about anything on the internet, and if you can't buy it, you can find information to make what legal things you buy, illegal. Average criminal? Is that why we're really dealing with in atrocities of this magnitude? Was Timothy McVeigh an 'average criminal'? I get it. If you don't want to think too deeply, I'll do it for you:

Moral issues.
1) Divorce reform. The break down of the family. Gee, what was this guy's family life like? Oh, wait, we don't want to pry do we? We'd rather pass a law and shout about gun control. Much, much easier.

2) Devaluation of human life. Abortion, Euthanasia. Oh, wait, what do these topics have to do with school massacres? Nothing, in your legislative nirvana. Just post signs that say "No Guns Allowed".

3) Sexuality/Violence in general - oh, nevermind. You've already proven that 'average criminals' like this guy don't do anything on the internet. Plus, we can legislate the hell out of gun control, but don't touch anything approaching that precious 'freedom of speech.' Leave the media alone. I'm sure this nut just sat around listening to the radio all day.

Right, I know, we can't go back to the 1950's. Going forward with our fabulous futuristic society and a neverending set of new laws and forms and bureaucracy, that's the way to go. Until the next horrific incident.

How many other shootings have their been in the last 4 years, by the way? And what legislation was passed? Why, that's right, the right to carry concealed weapons and the right to carry weapons on Amtrak. But I'm sure that's the conservatives and NRA's fault.

Again.. what are you saying? Nothing. Your just talking. What are you proposing? Nothing. Your just talking.

100% mental health issues the root cause of these problems. However states with tougher gun laws have less gun violence. Its that simple dude. You cant address the moral issues you briefly glossed over with legislation, but you can attempt to protect citizens buy limiting the amount of weapons capable of mass murder to the public. Is that so hard for you to understand?

Never have I said ban guns. Not going to happen. Never have I said tougher legislation should replace looking at the moral issues of our country. But its not our gov job to morally dictate to the public. Separation of church and state remember? Its the gov job to protect the citizens and the laws work. Just like drunk driving laws have drastically reduced booze related traffic fatalities (remembering your awesome suggestion that we bad pools because kids drown or booze because people still drink and drive).

So again.. feel free to suggest any ACTION. Or you cant just dance around the problems with no solutions, no input, no suggestions, no action. There's a word for that. wining.

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Making guns illegal is a solution but I do not think it is a possibility in US.
It is possible to do and was done in totalitarian countries because to make it work you need a total control of people lives.
It was done in countries which are advanced enough to reject violence. US is surrey not - we embrace it in movies, comic books, video games, sports, entertainment. So we collectively get what we are asking for.
In US this ban will only lead to creation of all-powerful gun mafia same as it did with boos and drags.
Mafia will get the biggest gains from this ban.
Every kid can get drugs from drug dealers any time he want in any place in this country. He just need money and sometimes he will get drugs for free to make him an addict and a "good customer" in the future.Why this will be different with guns?
We need to stop glorify violence even if violence is done by "good guys" and "superheros". Can we?
I am not sure. It is much more difficult that just ban the guns.

ahhh... no, no they cant. Again, more totally fabricated notions to support an opnion.

You want drugs you have to look and ask, and that looking and asking alone may lead to you getting caught. Yes, in high school (80s) weed and beer were mostly available if you knew someone with an older sybling or connection. Anything harder was rare, and if you got desperate for weed and had go buy off the street you were at pretty big risk of getting caught, getting your ass kicked or getting ripped off. So no, any kid that says "lets get high" cant just go out and do it. Sorry.

Mentall illness is a much bigger issue.

Its not the mafia and drug guns that are the problem. Those are mostly used on other mafia and drug gangs/dealers.

I agree that this small provincial places have less drag availability but in NY, NJ, LA... you go to certain place and you will find drug dealer at every corner.
Yes you can get in trouble by asking... but with guns when somebody determined to go on shooting spree... he will take chance to ask.
Guns are banned in Russia but terrorist came to school in Beslan and killed hundreds of people, mostly kids.
There are better solutions but they are costly.
For example with all the endless Jihad and Islamic terror attacks that hit Israel, kids in schools are safe because every school has armed guards at points of entry. People never barge into schools in Israel and start a shooting rampage. They would be shot and killed immediately. You cannot murder children in Israeli schools because the adults treat them like the priceless treasures they are.
We do have guards in NYC schools especially in bad neighborhoods so why not to make it a requirement. It will be a good use of Army and Reserve to serve the society and will create a lot of jobs in security firms.

agree... but your examples are not good because they have little relevence here. The Russian attack came in an area of a hundred years of ethnic hate and violence. The Israeli school example also doesnt fit as they are a military state and under constant attack of that nature.

And I live in NJ, and if you dont know someone you have to go to an area of very high risk if you want to buy drugs off a street. There's a damn good chance that dopey rich kids driving around slummy areas in nice cars asking random dudes where they can get some hooch are gonna get caught and fast. It *seems* easy but its not that easy and its high risk. The deterent works (breaking the law).

Its got to be harder to get these types of weapons. They were all legally aquired. You cant stop this crime, but the laws work and the evidence cant be refuted. There is no solution, but it doesnt mean there cant be progress. (assuming fake crying Obamo doesnt order more attacks on children to push his legislation)

Israel is not a military state. You probably never visited otherwise you will now that this is liberal propoganda nonsense.
Israely people are bearing arms to protect their state and their people from enemies who cannot accept their existence.
Is it the same as we Americans are stand for and were made of?
There is no middle ground here - or we all have rights to protect themselves with guns or nobody has.
Instead we as society want to come up with some "politically correct" solution to please everybody.
Time to stop this bs and make a decision what is more important and essential - freedom or security.

no... never been to Israel. Have some friends who have an and served in the army as that is mandatory. It is a 100% a military state. Just check the population vs the size of the army and military resources. Yes, its for their protection for the reasons you mention. My point is simply they have a threat the US does not.

There's always a middle ground. Concessions can be made by both sides. Its legal to drink and drive right? Its legal to look at porn right? Its legal to own a firearm right? But can I get loaded and drive? Can I look at porn of 14 year old girls? Can I leave my firearm loaded in the glove comp just in case? Yes to all, but I face the law, and those laws catch people and work. Nothing will ever stop folks from doing what they want, but a guy with 50 guns was just taken into custody, kiddie porn trafficers are jailed and those who look at the material are at risk and often caught and drunk drivers are caught and those deaths have dropped since those laws took place.

Military state is not the state where everybody have to and by the way like to join the army but state which is controlled by military
commanders. Israel is democratic state controlled by elected government. Army is what they must use to exist.
Cannot agree more - the lows are working but they cannot prevent every shooting and every crime. To have a low is not enough.
The society must change to stop promoting and commercializing violence. People with weak minds cannot stop playing the computer game or watch action movie and take or to the street or to the school. You cannot bun all of this by creating new lows and bans.
It's a good old thing - "All we need is Love, Love is all we need"

agree on all this... your right about Israel, and thats honestly what I meant, just meaning that the military there is everywhere because it has to be. They have armed guards at schools to protect against a clearly defined threat. Whats ours?

Agree 100% on the love part also man. Understanding and compassion is where it must start, but those are not gov instilled values, they are community. I dont have the answer there, except as parent I take responsibility for my kids. I was lucky to grow up in a house free of racism and hate. Im passing that along. Some are not so lucky, and some are just broken. Action is always important though, even if its effectiveness is in question.

Pretty good article too summ it all on good live example.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-us-should-learn-from-israel-how-to-permit-not-outlaw-guns/2012/12/16/
It is time to stop yapping and start working on the solutions.
But not sure if our buroucratic governments on all levels can do any work. And this is really sad...

The Jewish Press is one of the most right wing papers you can ever read, strictly catering to the ultra orthodox.

So what it has to do with the facts and solution that works?
If you are black and KKK member saved you and your family for burning house is he still you worst enemy?