Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

It's a pointless argument, but i don't believe we had an attractive package for any of those players. We had no young high upside guys, no high draft picks, and nothing else to offer. Melo forced his way here. That package only got him last minute for that reason. Remember when Denver had a list of young players they wanted for Melo. Guys like Eric Gordon and even Nic Batum were on that list, but not Gallo. Our package of "assets" was viewed as mediocre around the league.

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.

His 4th point was idiotic and not very well said because we didn't get anyone but Ronnie Brewer/Rasheed(who came out of retirement to get 1 last check)/White(an overseas bum) to sign here for the Minimum this summer.

If you're saying this team prior to the Melo trade wouldn't have been capable of doing the above, then what you're saying is New York was never going to be an attractive destination and Donnie Walsh and any other GM were incompetent as all get out.

As to his 2nd point all he's saying another Star player would have been acquired without the great sacrifice and killing off all future flexibility. Melo is a questionable STAR in the true sense of what it's supposed to mean.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

It's a pointless argument, but i don't believe we had an attractive package for any of those players. We had no young high upside guys, no high draft picks, and nothing else to offer. Melo forced his way here. That package only got him last minute for that reason. Remember when Denver had a list of young players they wanted for Melo. Guys like Eric Gordon and even Nic Batum were on that list, but not Gallo. Our package of "assets" was viewed as mediocre around the league.

It depends on what point in time you're talking about. I said if we'd been rebuilding the right way, and I'd been begging Dolan to do that since 2004. So I do think by now we could have gotten a package together to get one of the stars I mentioned above.

I can agree with that of course. But since the "Gallo era" i believe getting Melo was our best chance at success.

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.

His 4th point was idiotic and not very well said because we didn't get anyone but Ronnie Brewer/Rasheed(who came out of retirement to get 1 last check)/White(an overseas bum) to sign here for the Minimum this summer.

If you're saying this team prior to the Melo trade wouldn't have been capable of doing the above, then what you're saying is New York was never going to be an attractive destination and Donnie Walsh and any other GM were incompetent as all get out.

As to his 2nd point all he's saying another Star player would have been acquired without the great sacrifice and killing off all future flexibility. Melo is a questionable STAR in the true sense of what it's supposed to mean.

3g, what is killing most fans is point #2.. they want so bad for melo to be "that star" to be mentioned along with the other guys, it kills them.. instead of accepting what he is.... as you said, he is as questionable a star as there is, and to me, that is the root of the problem here when you look at the trade as a whole...

I also agree with you on point #4.. no one is coming here without getting paid. .just look at kidd and the 3rd year he got, chandler's huge deal and camby's deal.....

I also find it funny how steve nash was considering toronto instead of NY.. what "star"was attracting him there? In the end, most, not all, but most guys follow the money...

True and what this is showing me from posters like jrodmc is how much HATERS they were prior to the trade by the statements they're making now. Which makes them more and more "Pot Meet Kettle" type of posters and fans.

There's no way in the first year of finally seeing what could transpire from 2yrs of roster misery under the new regime that replaced the Thomas one, a fan after 54gms caps this team out and essentially says "NO HOPE" of improving going forward.

Okay I'll keep this in mind when the Melo era is over...

According to them our only hope resides forever and always in the Melo era and having options or going young is never going to work

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.

His 4th point was idiotic and not very well said because we didn't get anyone but Ronnie Brewer/Rasheed(who came out of retirement to get 1 last check)/White(an overseas bum) to sign here for the Minimum this summer.

If you're saying this team prior to the Melo trade wouldn't have been capable of doing the above, then what you're saying is New York was never going to be an attractive destination and Donnie Walsh and any other GM were incompetent as all get out.

As to his 2nd point all he's saying another Star player would have been acquired without the great sacrifice and killing off all future flexibility. Melo is a questionable STAR in the true sense of what it's supposed to mean.

3g, what is killing most fans is point #2.. they want so bad for melo to be "that star" to be mentioned along with the other guys, it kills them.. instead of accepting what he is.... as you said, he is as questionable a star as there is, and to me, that is the root of the problem here when you look at the trade as a whole...

I also agree with you on point #4.. no one is coming here without getting paid. .just look at kidd and the 3rd year he got, chandler's huge deal and camby's deal.....

I also find it funny how steve nash was considering toronto instead of NY.. what "star"was attracting him there? In the end, most, not all, but most guys follow the money...

Here is the thing though. Stat broke down shortly after the Melo trade and has not been the same. There were lots of opporunities for franchise guys to come to NY in the summer of 2010 but only a guy who's contract couldn't be insured and who had to have a reconcilliation meeting with the coach chose to come. Why would a star come to NY wihout a healthy stat and a system that wasn't working. Also, Gallo missed a 1/3 of last year and is probably the 4th best player on his team of young up and comers on a good day. This stuff just doesn't make sense. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

Because the last thing he said still rings true("MOST GUYS FOLLOW THE MONEY")....Here's the difference. Prior to the Melo era there was this "MYTH" players would come here and give us a "DISCOUNT" and make up their financial situation by doing commercials for "MODELL'S" sporting goods....

NO!

There was no endorsement fairy tale endings in New York during this time

Kidd and Hill flirted with coming here but in both instances we couldn't match the Paper. Sessions wanted to come here but we wouldn't give him the Paper. Nash wanted to come here not because of Melo but because of D'AnToni, the city, the paper. Oh and Tyson said he came here because of Amar'e.....

NOT MELO!

Those who recognize real understand Cash Rules Everything so no discount double checks were going to happen here. What the small minority of fans said if we have money someone will sign here. This has proven to be true. Amar'e/Tyson/Sheed/Camby/Kidd came here because of the Paper and we had it to offer. You could even include Melo theoretically.

So if you go back and revisit the list I made along with the one made by Bonn..... yep via S&T and extensions offered or through Free Agency we would have been able to sign players, and they would have received Top Shelf pay that's all.

Case in point O.J. Mayo got a 2yr $8mil 2nd yr PO deal from Dallas....Are you telling me we couldn't have been an attractive destination for Melo for equal or better(with financial flexibility being there) pay when the first team he was looking to sign with was Phx?

Go ahead and continue to sweet talk your heart into such Fables

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.

His 4th point was idiotic and not very well said because we didn't get anyone but Ronnie Brewer/Rasheed(who came out of retirement to get 1 last check)/White(an overseas bum) to sign here for the Minimum this summer.

If you're saying this team prior to the Melo trade wouldn't have been capable of doing the above, then what you're saying is New York was never going to be an attractive destination and Donnie Walsh and any other GM were incompetent as all get out.

As to his 2nd point all he's saying another Star player would have been acquired without the great sacrifice and killing off all future flexibility. Melo is a questionable STAR in the true sense of what it's supposed to mean.

3g, what is killing most fans is point #2.. they want so bad for melo to be "that star" to be mentioned along with the other guys, it kills them.. instead of accepting what he is.... as you said, he is as questionable a star as there is, and to me, that is the root of the problem here when you look at the trade as a whole...

I also agree with you on point #4.. no one is coming here without getting paid. .just look at kidd and the 3rd year he got, chandler's huge deal and camby's deal.....

I also find it funny how steve nash was considering toronto instead of NY.. what "star"was attracting him there? In the end, most, not all, but most guys follow the money...

Here is the thing though. Stat broke down shortly after the Melo trade and has not been the same. There were lots of opporunities for franchise guys to come to NY in the summer of 2010 but only a guy who's contract couldn't be insured and who had to have a reconcilliation meeting with the coach chose to come. Why would a star come to NY wihout a healthy stat and a system that wasn't working. Also, Gallo missed a 1/3 of last year and is probably the 4th best player on his team of young up and comers on a good day. This stuff just doesn't make sense. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

Because the last thing he said still rings true....Here's the difference. Prior to the Melo era there was this "MYTH" players would come here and give us a discount and make up their financial situation by doing commercial for MODELL'S SPORTING GOODS"....

NO!

Kidd and Hill flirted with coming here but in both instances we couldn't match the Paper. Sessions wanted to come here but we wouldn't give him the Paper. Nash wanted to come here not because of Melo but because of D'AnToni and the city. Oh and Tyson said he came here because of Amar'e.....

NOT MELO!

Those who recognize real understand Cash Rules Everything so no discount double checks were going to happen here. What the small minority of fans said if we have money someone will sign here. This has proven to be true.

So if you go back and revisit the lists I made along with the one made by Bonn yep via S&T and extensions offered or through Free Agency we would have been able to sign players, they would have received Top Shelf pay that's all.

Case in point O.J. Mayo got a 2yr $8mil 2nd yr PO deal from Dallas....Are you telling me we couldn't have signed Melo for equal or better(with financial flexibility being there) when the first team he was looking to sign with was Phx?

Go ahead and continue to sweet talk your heart into such Fables

Go ahead and continue to sweet talk your heart into such Fables

I think this is a bit out of line. Knicks had cap space for two stars in 2010. Guys didn't come. The Knicks traded for a second star. I never said the Knicks aren't willing to pay and your not making your point just because you post in caps with explanation points. As far as Mayo goes, the guy has struggled but had potential, No way Melo signs for less. He didn't have to. Are you suggesting that he would play in NY for less? Thought that was a myth,

Joe didn't come because ATL gave him $100+ Mil

Lebron/Wade/Bosh didn't come because they were pillow fighting and playing footsies several yrs prior too

You have to keep in mind during this off-season we were primarily looking at BIG SPLASHSES...remember Walsh said he wouldn't sign guys just to sign guys to appease. So that leaves these guys remaining...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

Dirk/Amar'e/Boozer/Gay/Scola/Lowry/Pierce/Allen/Redd/Felton/Camby/Lee/Ginboli/Redick/Korver

I listed guys who may have been somewhat attractive considering the coach we had in place

In almost every single case these guys went with the Paper, there were some cases of loyalty and guys we know for a fact weren't realistic options. We only pursued so many which was to a degree a fault of our own.

In Mayo's case I'm saying if we had the cap space which in all likely hood we very well could have signed him.... since Gallo/Will/Moz would make less than Melo and Felton would make less than Tyson. $4mil is not hard to beat at all. Mayo was looking at Phx first because he wanted Eric Gordon money, he then looked at the Pacers he still wanted to get paid but teams started signing all these guys the market dried up and he settled in Dallas with a winner. Hence he signed a 2yr deal with a PO on the second year so he can go back out on the market and get paid.

This isn't Rocket Surgery..... yes I said Rocket Surgery on purpose.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Arguing coherently against MeloHate is a waste of keyboard skills, but really, that's why we're all here, right?

1) Solid bench young players. <----this isn't even a sentence, let alone having anything truly meaningful to say. This is what NY sports has always been all about attaining: solid young bench players.
2) ...get legit starter/star like Howard <-----Yes, Melo is neither a star or a legit starter. Maybe Melo would be a solid bench player in the rest of the league. SMH
3) Gallo is proven solid player <------We're into our third SEASON of Waiting for Gallo. But who's counting. We have all the time in the Melohate world, right?
4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.
5) Kidd training Lin instead of Felton<-------And Kidd being a professional trainer to your manlove protege is what's best for him, instead of hitting threes and getting dimes in real games, right? You'd rather he make your little god into a better player than what he's doing now for the whole team (including Felton and JR, right?)
6) Amare awesome as main star <----- does this have any basis in any other reality that he was breaking down trying to fill this role and your Melohate?
7) Cap space building dynasties <------yes this happens each and everyday in the NBA.
8) Phil coaches <-------- yes, this dream happens when all 7 other points happen, and right before we all fart rainbows and just before Gallo gets inducted into the HOF, and the Mayor leads the league in scoring and Moz is DPOY and....

Very very very very well said.

4) Still get veteran players for minimum <-------Yes, in your world, sub and barely .500 teams with a broken down Stat attract all sorts of people. Mostly miscreant fans like yourself.

His 4th point was idiotic and not very well said because we didn't get anyone but Ronnie Brewer/Rasheed(who came out of retirement to get 1 last check)/White(an overseas bum) to sign here for the Minimum this summer.

If you're saying this team prior to the Melo trade wouldn't have been capable of doing the above, then what you're saying is New York was never going to be an attractive destination and Donnie Walsh and any other GM were incompetent as all get out.

As to his 2nd point all he's saying another Star player would have been acquired without the great sacrifice and killing off all future flexibility. Melo is a questionable STAR in the true sense of what it's supposed to mean.

3g, what is killing most fans is point #2.. they want so bad for melo to be "that star" to be mentioned along with the other guys, it kills them.. instead of accepting what he is.... as you said, he is as questionable a star as there is, and to me, that is the root of the problem here when you look at the trade as a whole...

I also agree with you on point #4.. no one is coming here without getting paid. .just look at kidd and the 3rd year he got, chandler's huge deal and camby's deal.....

I also find it funny how steve nash was considering toronto instead of NY.. what "star"was attracting him there? In the end, most, not all, but most guys follow the money...

Here is the thing though. Stat broke down shortly after the Melo trade and has not been the same. There were lots of opporunities for franchise guys to come to NY in the summer of 2010 but only a guy who's contract couldn't be insured and who had to have a reconcilliation meeting with the coach chose to come. Why would a star come to NY wihout a healthy stat and a system that wasn't working. Also, Gallo missed a 1/3 of last year and is probably the 4th best player on his team of young up and comers on a good day. This stuff just doesn't make sense. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

you say the system wasn't working but the knicks were 28-26 before the trade, with stat, felton and a bunch of young guys.. I think some would argue the system was starting to click with these guys.. remember what you are dealing with when it comes to younger players.. considering our circumstances, the knicks were in pretty good shape with a ton of room for improvement.. why is it, that we can give years for melo and amare to mesh, a year for carmelo to get a coach that"understands him", yet, we give dantoni and those young players such a short period of time to not just be good. but Great?

Also, Gallo missed a 1/3 of last year and is probably the 4th best player on his team of young up and

you see, what you are doing is trying to bash gallo to validate this move.. it makes no sense bro... but here is the thing.. Denver is a team of diverse talents, and I am sure if you asked the coach, he would tell you, he doesn't not view gallo that way.. only knick fans... but really does that make gallo bad, even if that were true.. that team has iggy who is an all star, lawson who is a heck of a PG, and Faried who may be one of the best young PF's in the game right now.. honestly being 4th with that bunch is not a bad thing.. .certainly not a negative towards gallo... remember gallo is one of those young and up coming players..

Why would a star come to NY wihout a healthy stat

so you are assuming stat would have been hurt.. right? ok so let me ask, if you felt the system was working, why did carmelo come here? why did he lobby to come here? and guess what, tyson chandler said he came here because of amare.. this was after his injury and OH, a system you said , was not working...

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:He is considered one of the league's top perimeter defenders...U saw him shut down Calderon...I've seen him defend Bron and Wade well...I have seen his defense change a game...How is that overrated??

Calderon is not really a threat to score, he just wanted to torch Lin.

No i haven't seen him guard neither LeBron or Wade well, not at all.

just look at the link....no way to dispute his ranking amongst his position.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/new-york-knicks/players/iman-shumpert/rankings/12/20/298

What is this ranking??..How can u quantify defense???..U just see it, no??..Are there stats for what Chandler does??..
By the way, I have seen Shrump defend Wade and Bron well..He stripped Wade on consecutive plays...Have you ever seen anyone do that to Wade??

All I'm saying is overrated....you stated he defended guys well then i show you those same guys post even higher stats than what they normally do against him.

He isn't great, he's good, but he isn't smart. The smart defenders don't gamble.

Lin leading the league in steals, you think he's a great defender?

It's all subjective, and trust me, even as a knicks fan, i'll never over-glorify anyone.

All i care for is the win, the players don't even have to have names on the back.

U can't always look at stats...Stat's can be a very misleading indicator of what a player is doing or how good he is at a certain task...You brought up Lin..You know he isn't a good defender but stats says otherwise...Shrump is a very good defender...He is young and was playing on a team going no where...So yes, he gambles...If he played for SA, I think he would play differently, he would have to play smart...I think he will play smart with this current team...But he is a defensive talent...His defense has changed games...When your defense change games on the perimeter, that's special...

He's good, i've said that, i see a guy who could be very good if he played smarter.

most young players need to become smarter through good coaching but you can't teach long arms and lateral quickness and this young man has both. he may even have good peripheral vision as well. we can only hope he regains all of that lateral quickness back because the kid can become a smothering blanket. now what do you mean by smarter?do you mean studying the opponent's tendencies and anticipating better?