Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Lots of crappy player have good per 36-minute stats when they barely play.

Like who? He played about 300 min that year. What other examples do you have in mind? I'm not saying that's a huge sample but it has to count for something. It's not smart to ignore the data from that season and look at only last year.

Last season Toney Douglas put up 12.9 pts, 4 ast, 3.9 reb, and 1.6 stl per 36 minutes. Really, you can pick any random bench warmer from any team and they'll have good per-36 numbers. Partially because they're only playing a few minutes a game, partially because they're usually playing garbage minutes in blowouts.

Well sure, then he screwed up his shoulder and his #s went down. Injuries affect anyone's numbers; that's a separate issue from the discussion here. The bold part is definitely false.

Here are Jackie Butler's per-36 numbers his last year with us: 14 ppg, 8.8 reb, and 1.6 blocks.

Congrats on getting a few examples. I never said there would be zero examples. They are rare, though. The majority of time players' numbers extrapolate at a steady rate as the minutes increase.

Channing Frye's rookie season, per 36min...

18.4 pts, 8.6reb, 1.1ast, 1.1blk.

SOMEONE SHOULD PLAY THIS KID STARTER MINUTES

What is the issue with Lin's contract?

Years 1 and 2 are very reasonable, and, year 3 at the crazy 15 million, if he is really good for the first 2 years then we bite the bullet. If not, ISNT THAT A VERY TRADEABLE commodity? A 15 million dollar expiring? Did we not resign CB/Pick up his option for that reason?

What am I missing?

mrKnickShot wrote:I don't want to derail the BonnieBashing since I really really enjoy it but I have a question ...

What is the issue with Lin's contract?

Years 1 and 2 are very reasonable, and, year 3 at the crazy 15 million, if he is really good for the first 2 years then we bite the bullet. If not, ISNT THAT A VERY TRADEABLE commodity? A 15 million dollar expiring? Did we not resign CB/Pick up his option for that reason?

What am I missing?

Chris Paul was suppose to slide into the empty spot after one year...CB was a know commodity...U starring down the barrel of a three year possible non performing contract that renders the 250 mil u spent already useless...

mrKnickShot wrote:I don't want to derail the BonnieBashing since I really really enjoy it but I have a question ...

What is the issue with Lin's contract?

Years 1 and 2 are very reasonable, and, year 3 at the crazy 15 million, if he is really good for the first 2 years then we bite the bullet. If not, ISNT THAT A VERY TRADEABLE commodity? A 15 million dollar expiring? Did we not resign CB/Pick up his option for that reason?

What am I missing?

The new luxury tax is no laughing matter:

• 2011 CBA: Teams pay $1 for every $1 their salary is above the luxury-tax threshold in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Starting in 2012-13, teams pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million above the tax threshold ($1.50, $1.75, $2.50, $3.25, etc.). Teams that are repeat offenders (paying tax at least four out of the past five seasons) have a tax that is higher still -- $1 more at each increment ($2.50, $2.75, $3.50, $4.25, etc.).

People say that Dolan's paid it before, but that is a huge tax bill when you add Lin's year 3 on top of our other contracts. And also remember the new cba has trebled the amount of revenue sharing, so Dolans also losing money through that. And then there's the billion dollar renovation of MSG. It all adds up.

smackeddog wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You can't seriously call this a max contract. He's making $8 mil per or slightly above the league average.

well his first 2 years are fine, but his 3rd year at 15m is a max players salary.
If he continues his Linsanity saga, he could be following in Gilbert Areana's footsteps, as a 2nd round pick, breaking the possibility of making more many than a 1st round pick, and all in a shorter amount of time. That 3rd year, makes his trade value a lot lower, if he does not lead to W's or/and does not put up major stats. Not many players would be making more money than him in 2015 that are not legit "all stars"
Have to think about it from a business point of view, that one year is going to cost 45m or so, just for Lin, not including any salary we would be adding, 2 years of possible min MLE, a resigned JR Smith, and our next year 1st round pick. Even if Dolan has a lot of $, that contract hurts his trade value, because NOT MANY owners are willing to pay much tax.

Without receiving the contract offer from Houston, Morey continues to play mental games with us. Some reporters say we actually paid 3m for the Camby trade.

So we give up 3m, Jorts, Jordan, TD, and 2 2nd round picks. Which he cuts Jordan/Jort's but demands for both of them to be in it, with our 3m, 2 2nd picks, just so we can have no flexibility to make more moves.
Considering Camby was going to leave for NOTHING, he got a lot out of the trade, and we payed an extreme high price, the 3m cash limits another year for us to not being able to purchase picks, and have less flexibility moving forward. What a PRICK.....

You talking about Dolan being a prick?

There are more important things than stressing over one year of a contract. If Dolan didn't want this to happen, he would have made Lin an offer.

For everyone talking out their @ss, Bonn, you especially, about the Knicks making lin an offer, the most the Knicks could offer.was 5 mil per year for 3 years, period. That is the Max you can offer restricted free agents. The Knicks did lin a favor and said- go get a reasonable deal and we will match it.

Exactly- there is no way Lin's agent would have agreed to our offer when it could legally only be far less than what an outside team could offer him. One lazy journalist tried to stir up trouble by saying we refused to offer Lin a contract and he was insulted by this- but it's absolute c***- he wouldn't of agreed to it, in fact his agent probably told Grunwald that they would go out and find market value first. I don't think Lin even wanted to come back, to be honest.

This

smackeddog wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You can't seriously call this a max contract. He's making $8 mil per or slightly above the league average.

well his first 2 years are fine, but his 3rd year at 15m is a max players salary.
If he continues his Linsanity saga, he could be following in Gilbert Areana's footsteps, as a 2nd round pick, breaking the possibility of making more many than a 1st round pick, and all in a shorter amount of time. That 3rd year, makes his trade value a lot lower, if he does not lead to W's or/and does not put up major stats. Not many players would be making more money than him in 2015 that are not legit "all stars"
Have to think about it from a business point of view, that one year is going to cost 45m or so, just for Lin, not including any salary we would be adding, 2 years of possible min MLE, a resigned JR Smith, and our next year 1st round pick. Even if Dolan has a lot of $, that contract hurts his trade value, because NOT MANY owners are willing to pay much tax.

Without receiving the contract offer from Houston, Morey continues to play mental games with us. Some reporters say we actually paid 3m for the Camby trade.

So we give up 3m, Jorts, Jordan, TD, and 2 2nd round picks. Which he cuts Jordan/Jort's but demands for both of them to be in it, with our 3m, 2 2nd picks, just so we can have no flexibility to make more moves.
Considering Camby was going to leave for NOTHING, he got a lot out of the trade, and we payed an extreme high price, the 3m cash limits another year for us to not being able to purchase picks, and have less flexibility moving forward. What a PRICK.....

You talking about Dolan being a prick?

There are more important things than stressing over one year of a contract. If Dolan didn't want this to happen, he would have made Lin an offer.

For everyone talking out their @ss, Bonn, you especially, about the Knicks making lin an offer, the most the Knicks could offer.was 5 mil per year for 3 years, period. That is the Max you can offer restricted free agents. The Knicks did lin a favor and said- go get a reasonable deal and we will match it.

Exactly- there is no way Lin's agent would have agreed to our offer when it could legally only be far less than what an outside team could offer him. One lazy journalist tried to stir up trouble by saying we refused to offer Lin a contract and he was insulted by this- but it's absolute c***- he wouldn't of agreed to it, in fact his agent probably told Grunwald that they would go out and find market value first. I don't think Lin even wanted to come back, to be honest.

FOR THE TRILLIONTH TIME - The point of Knicks offering a contract was showing Lin that we wanted him to stay. Everyone exoects him to find a better ione that we would then match. The way we did it we told Lin we didn't hink he was even worth $15M for three years by refusing to offer him that and we were beetting the market wouldnt give him as much. Now Grunwald looks like and idiot and everyone wants revenge on Lin. This is not a very complicated idea, for most people. As for the rest of you....eh whatever.

loweyecue wrote:
FOR THE TRILLIONTH TIME - The point of Knicks offering a contract was showing Lin that we wanted him to stay. Everyone exoects him to find a better ione that we would then match. The way we did it we told Lin we didn't hink he was even worth $15M for three years by refusing to offer him that and we were beetting the market wouldnt give him as much. Now Grunwald looks like and idiot and everyone wants revenge on Lin. This is not a very complicated idea, for most people. As for the rest of you....eh whatever.

Really- Lin didn't realise we wanted him to stay? How would anyone on earth think that- Woody had dinner with him, he practiced with Melo and Tyson, we kept saying we'd match whatever he got, and Woodson said he's be the starter. We were doing him a favour by letting him go out and find his market value.

loweyecue wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You can't seriously call this a max contract. He's making $8 mil per or slightly above the league average.

well his first 2 years are fine, but his 3rd year at 15m is a max players salary.
If he continues his Linsanity saga, he could be following in Gilbert Areana's footsteps, as a 2nd round pick, breaking the possibility of making more many than a 1st round pick, and all in a shorter amount of time. That 3rd year, makes his trade value a lot lower, if he does not lead to W's or/and does not put up major stats. Not many players would be making more money than him in 2015 that are not legit "all stars"
Have to think about it from a business point of view, that one year is going to cost 45m or so, just for Lin, not including any salary we would be adding, 2 years of possible min MLE, a resigned JR Smith, and our next year 1st round pick. Even if Dolan has a lot of $, that contract hurts his trade value, because NOT MANY owners are willing to pay much tax.

Without receiving the contract offer from Houston, Morey continues to play mental games with us. Some reporters say we actually paid 3m for the Camby trade.

So we give up 3m, Jorts, Jordan, TD, and 2 2nd round picks. Which he cuts Jordan/Jort's but demands for both of them to be in it, with our 3m, 2 2nd picks, just so we can have no flexibility to make more moves.
Considering Camby was going to leave for NOTHING, he got a lot out of the trade, and we payed an extreme high price, the 3m cash limits another year for us to not being able to purchase picks, and have less flexibility moving forward. What a PRICK.....

You talking about Dolan being a prick?

There are more important things than stressing over one year of a contract. If Dolan didn't want this to happen, he would have made Lin an offer.

For everyone talking out their @ss, Bonn, you especially, about the Knicks making lin an offer, the most the Knicks could offer.was 5 mil per year for 3 years, period. That is the Max you can offer restricted free agents. The Knicks did lin a favor and said- go get a reasonable deal and we will match it.

Exactly- there is no way Lin's agent would have agreed to our offer when it could legally only be far less than what an outside team could offer him. One lazy journalist tried to stir up trouble by saying we refused to offer Lin a contract and he was insulted by this- but it's absolute c***- he wouldn't of agreed to it, in fact his agent probably told Grunwald that they would go out and find market value first. I don't think Lin even wanted to come back, to be honest.

FOR THE TRILLIONTH TIME - The point of Knicks offering a contract was showing Lin that we wanted him to stay. Everyone exoects him to find a better ione that we would then match. The way we did it we told Lin we didn't hink he was even worth $15M for three years by refusing to offer him that and we were beetting the market wouldnt give him as much. Now Grunwald looks like and idiot and everyone wants revenge on Lin. This is not a very complicated idea, for most people. As for the rest of you....eh whatever.

What are we children here??..We have to show Lin he is wanted??..It's a business, tell Lin get over it..

Alan Hahn
So what made the Knicks stance in matching Jeremy Lin's offer sheet change in the span of 24 hours? Raymond Felton. He wanted to come back to New York (never wanted to leave) and his availability, and much cheaper cost, gave Knicks reason to reconsider matching Lin's massive contract. Felton is 28, hardly old, but has had conditioning issues which is something Woodson has already made clear to players already on the roter that he will not tolerate on the first day of training camp. Felton's toughness, experience and ability to run the point are factors that point to the win-now mentality.

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You can't seriously call this a max contract. He's making $8 mil per or slightly above the league average.

well his first 2 years are fine, but his 3rd year at 15m is a max players salary.
If he continues his Linsanity saga, he could be following in Gilbert Areana's footsteps, as a 2nd round pick, breaking the possibility of making more many than a 1st round pick, and all in a shorter amount of time. That 3rd year, makes his trade value a lot lower, if he does not lead to W's or/and does not put up major stats. Not many players would be making more money than him in 2015 that are not legit "all stars"
Have to think about it from a business point of view, that one year is going to cost 45m or so, just for Lin, not including any salary we would be adding, 2 years of possible min MLE, a resigned JR Smith, and our next year 1st round pick. Even if Dolan has a lot of $, that contract hurts his trade value, because NOT MANY owners are willing to pay much tax.

Without receiving the contract offer from Houston, Morey continues to play mental games with us. Some reporters say we actually paid 3m for the Camby trade.

So we give up 3m, Jorts, Jordan, TD, and 2 2nd round picks. Which he cuts Jordan/Jort's but demands for both of them to be in it, with our 3m, 2 2nd picks, just so we can have no flexibility to make more moves.
Considering Camby was going to leave for NOTHING, he got a lot out of the trade, and we payed an extreme high price, the 3m cash limits another year for us to not being able to purchase picks, and have less flexibility moving forward. What a PRICK.....

You talking about Dolan being a prick?

There are more important things than stressing over one year of a contract. If Dolan didn't want this to happen, he would have made Lin an offer.

For everyone talking out their @ss, Bonn, you especially, about the Knicks making lin an offer, the most the Knicks could offer.was 5 mil per year for 3 years, period. That is the Max you can offer restricted free agents. The Knicks did lin a favor and said- go get a reasonable deal and we will match it.

Exactly- there is no way Lin's agent would have agreed to our offer when it could legally only be far less than what an outside team could offer him. One lazy journalist tried to stir up trouble by saying we refused to offer Lin a contract and he was insulted by this- but it's absolute c***- he wouldn't of agreed to it, in fact his agent probably told Grunwald that they would go out and find market value first. I don't think Lin even wanted to come back, to be honest.

FOR THE TRILLIONTH TIME - The point of Knicks offering a contract was showing Lin that we wanted him to stay. Everyone exoects him to find a better ione that we would then match. The way we did it we told Lin we didn't hink he was even worth $15M for three years by refusing to offer him that and we were beetting the market wouldnt give him as much. Now Grunwald looks like and idiot and everyone wants revenge on Lin. This is not a very complicated idea, for most people. As for the rest of you....eh whatever.

What are we children here??..We have to show Lin he is wanted??..It's a business, tell Lin get over it..

Aye aye LOLfresh, sir yes sir!!

When you are able to show someone you care about having them back and it would cost you nothing, most people choose to do that as a sign of goodwill. Again it's a simple concept for MOST people.

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Company man Hahn has been briefed on the talking points:

Alan Hahn
So what made the Knicks stance in matching Jeremy Lin's offer sheet change in the span of 24 hours? Raymond Felton. He wanted to come back to New York (never wanted to leave) and his availability, and much cheaper cost, gave Knicks reason to reconsider matching Lin's massive contract. Felton is 28, hardly old, but has had conditioning issues which is something Woodson has already made clear to players already on the roter that he will not tolerate on the first day of training camp. Felton's toughness, experience and ability to run the point are factors that point to the win-now mentality.

Is Hahn basically confirming that we won't be matching?

What it seems like for me. Especially if you think about the fact that his job is to put a friendly face and some rationalization on the team's moves.