ramtour420 wrote:

TMS wrote:

itchetrigr wrote:

loweyecue wrote:
Don't waste your time, some people can't see the forest because of the trees.

some people are bent out of shape over a few assets, now i know its tough swallowing come draft day and we're not picking a first or trading away unrealized potential but cap space itself is a great asset, and miami proved it. sure if walsh knows what we all do now, he keeps hill & those picks, signs amare or boozer and watches the other teams fight it out for supremacy having no real shot at lebron or wade. so we end up with our picks in the same position we are now minus a mosgov\felton or the david lee trade, their choice & trying to sell a combination of that to denver...

get one of them to explain to me how that scenario is so much better than what we have now

so because we tried & we failed, you consider the trade a success? hey, the Yankees tried to make the WS this year by trading for scrubs like Javy Vazquez & Lance Berkman, but they didn't get there... try telling Yankee fans how successful those trades ended up being this year.

some people would like for this franchise to make SMART trades & not give away future assets for $9M in cap space that ended up getting us Ray Felton.

So, you'd rather have Hill, JJ and a pick over signing Felton and Mozgov? And , likely, signing Amare. And isn't there a rule that would have prevented us from getting assets in Dlee trade, unless we had cap space? Why are we talking again about JJ and Hill and ONE 1st rounder? We now are in the process of landing Carmelo. . . Whatddaya think about them apples? Should we have dropped out of the free agent market by not making that trade? I don't think so, and btw, i don't see what Yankees have to do with this discussion.

yes, i'd rather have Hill, a $7M expiring contract & ownership of BOTH our 1st round picks for the next 2 seasons over Ray Felton & Mozgov... if we had those picks to trade for Melo we'd be in a better position to get him right now... as for Amare, enough w/the speculation that he only signed here because we had cap space to sign another bigname FA... he went where the money was, end of story... & who ever said we should have dropped out of the free agent market by not making that trade? hello, the Knicks only had $27M worth of cap space even before they ever made that stupid trade to begin with... nice try spinning the situation to fit your argument but try & get the facts straight at least... i bring up the Yankees cuz they tried & failed, just like the Knicks tried to land Lebron & failed... those are not success stories my friend.

whatddaya think about them apples?

TMS wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

TMS wrote:

itchetrigr wrote:

loweyecue wrote:
Don't waste your time, some people can't see the forest because of the trees.

some people are bent out of shape over a few assets, now i know its tough swallowing come draft day and we're not picking a first or trading away unrealized potential but cap space itself is a great asset, and miami proved it. sure if walsh knows what we all do now, he keeps hill & those picks, signs amare or boozer and watches the other teams fight it out for supremacy having no real shot at lebron or wade. so we end up with our picks in the same position we are now minus a mosgov\felton or the david lee trade, their choice & trying to sell a combination of that to denver...

get one of them to explain to me how that scenario is so much better than what we have now

so because we tried & we failed, you consider the trade a success? hey, the Yankees tried to make the WS this year by trading for scrubs like Javy Vazquez & Lance Berkman, but they didn't get there... try telling Yankee fans how successful those trades ended up being this year.

some people would like for this franchise to make SMART trades & not give away future assets for $9M in cap space that ended up getting us Ray Felton.

So, you'd rather have Hill, JJ and a pick over signing Felton and Mozgov? And , likely, signing Amare. And isn't there a rule that would have prevented us from getting assets in Dlee trade, unless we had cap space? Why are we talking again about JJ and Hill and ONE 1st rounder? We now are in the process of landing Carmelo. . . Whatddaya think about them apples? Should we have dropped out of the free agent market by not making that trade? I don't think so, and btw, i don't see what Yankees have to do with this discussion.

yes, i'd rather have Hill, a $7M expiring contract & ownership of BOTH our 1st round picks for the next 2 seasons over Ray Felton & Mozgov... if we had those picks to trade for Melo we'd be in a better position to get him right now... as for Amare, enough w/the speculation that he only signed here because we had cap space to sign another bigname FA... he went where the money was, end of story... & who ever said we should have dropped out of the free agent market by not making that trade? hello, the Knicks only had $27M worth of cap space even before they ever made that stupid trade to begin with... nice try spinning the situation to fit your argument but try & get the facts straight at least... i bring up the Yankees cuz they tried & failed, just like the Knicks tried to land Lebron & failed... those are not success stories my friend.

whatddaya think about them apples?

I think you win 4 either way. You'd rather not have mozgov nor felton. You think we woulda had Amare regardless. You mention nothing about getting assets for DLee. All of the above for ONE 1st rounder. Like I said, you win either way.

TMS wrote:

itchetrigr wrote:

loweyecue wrote:
Don't waste your time, some people can't see the forest because of the trees.

some people are bent out of shape over a few assets, now i know its tough swallowing come draft day and we're not picking a first or trading away unrealized potential but cap space itself is a great asset, and miami proved it. sure if walsh knows what we all do now, he keeps hill & those picks, signs amare or boozer and watches the other teams fight it out for supremacy having no real shot at lebron or wade. so we end up with our picks in the same position we are now minus a mosgov\felton or the david lee trade, their choice & trying to sell a combination of that to denver...

get one of them to explain to me how that scenario is so much better than what we have now

so because we tried & we failed, you consider the trade a success? hey, the Yankees tried to make the WS this year by trading for scrubs like Javy Vazquez & Lance Berkman, but they didn't get there... try telling Yankee fans how successful those trades ended up being this year.

some people would like for this franchise to make SMART trades & not give away future assets for $9M in cap space that ended up getting us Ray Felton.

TMS there isnt a single rational person here that will tell you the Hill trade was a good BB trade. Walsh himself said it wasnt. It was a financial trade and the gamble was to end up with two max guys.

Your suggesting by not making that trade we would have better assets to build around Amare, but thats having your cake and eating too. The Knicks were a 29 win team and losing their best players (Lee, Harrington, etc). How can you say Amare would want to come here with no immediate help on the way?

The arguement shouldnt revolve around the Hill trade, because that trade and space was key in getting Amare here. The ability to add another star was key. You can deny that was a big factor in coming here.

If you want to make an arguement that we should just have passed on the FA thing, resigned Lee and focused on the draft fine. But I can only imagine fan's reaction to the Knicks not being involved in this summer.

I've seen talented kids like those 2 play awful and then suddenly the light clicks on for them and they finally get it. I still believe that something like that is going to happen with those two and it's not a given that it won't happen this season. It may not happen, but i'm willing to wait and see how things develop. The Melo thing is a tough deal given what Denver wants to get in return. We don't match up with what they want and a complicated deal has to be made. The chances are slim, so i'm not going to focus on that. I want to see our kids get a chance to develop and that's going to take some time, so let's see how they look during the regular season.

Look if Gallo starts playing like we know he's capable of, things will change for the better really quickly. This kid hits a few shots and gets his confidence and this team is gonna look a lot better. Same goes for AR. If he simplifies what he looks to do on the court and finds some success, it could loosen him up and give him confidence so he can stop looking over to the bench after every play with that sad face.

Vmart wrote:Denver is making a huge mistake going into the season with Melo. They should turn to rebuilding ASAP. Try and get the worst record and get a high draft pick. Having Melo is going to get them a decent record and they will lose Melo in FA and on top their pick will be lower pick to boot. Their strategy is flawed and its going to bite them.

As for the Knicks they need to make the deal quickly. This team as constructed requires a second superstar. The problem with the Knicks is that no matter how badly we want Gallo and Chandler or AR to become superstars they are not elite superstar material. They may be good players at best but good players need another superstar to compliment them when one superstar goes to the bench. I'm not being impatient or anything like that. But the reality is we need to get into the playoffs and we can't use up Amare in his prime year waiting on players who may never come to the Knicks in free agency. We have to create a playoff atmosphere so the young that we might have get playoff exposure ASAP.

Or we could hold our cards, be patient, bluff our intentions and SIGN MELO AS A FA, thus giving us a leg up in our rise to contention. That's the smart play here, not rush rush rushing to land our target. And if we miss?

There will be other deals to make.

TMS wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

Vmart wrote:Denver is making a huge mistake going into the season with Melo. They should turn to rebuilding ASAP. Try and get the worst record and get a high draft pick. Having Melo is going to get them a decent record and they will lose Melo in FA and on top their pick will be lower pick to boot. Their strategy is flawed and its going to bite them.

As for the Knicks they need to make the deal quickly. This team as constructed requires a second superstar. The problem with the Knicks is that no matter how badly we want Gallo and Chandler or AR to become superstars they are not elite superstar material. They may be good players at best but good players need another superstar to compliment them when one superstar goes to the bench. I'm not being impatient or anything like that. But the reality is we need to get into the playoffs and we can't use up Amare in his prime year waiting on players who may never come to the Knicks in free agency. We have to create a playoff atmosphere so the young that we might have get playoff exposure ASAP.

Or we could hold our cards, be patient, bluff our intentions and SIGN MELO AS A FA, thus giving us a leg up in our rise to contention. That's the smart play here, not rush rush rushing to land our target. And if we miss?

There will be other deals to make.

right... & Lebron was gonna sign w/us too this past summer... i'm done w/putting my eggs into the free agency basket... if u can get Melo for a reasonable package of talent, then you do it, end of story.

Quoted for truth.

AnubisADL wrote:You are wasting your time. I saw this coming a mile away. No matter what happened this summer people will found a way to justify that lopsided trade.

some guys are so resilient to admitting being wrong they'll go to whatever lengths to defend their position even after they're proven wrong... all this "what were we supposed to do, not be in on the Lebron sweepstakes?" while constantly ignoring the fact that we had $27M in cap space to offer him a contract & enough flexibility to make other moves to improve his supporting cast even before we made that trade... that whole "we had to clear that extra cap space so Lebron could sign here with another max guy" thing worked out real well for us... i had no real problem with the idea of clearing extra cap space, but the price we paid to do so was excessive & that's been my position from the very beginning... u don't give up future assets unless u have something concrete in hand, an actual living & breathing player that you're trading for... we got neither by making that trade, only a hope & a prayer that Lebron would sign here with another max guy... everyone said Donnie must know something if he would give up that much to clear that space, but obviously he didn't know jack squat other than the same speculation everyone else had as to Lebron James' intentions this past summer... now even he's second guessing himself for making that deal & still guys are defending his decision... but hey, if guys wanna hold onto their illusions that's their prerogative.

Melo and his agent know they are in control.

If melo demostrates he does not care about the money and the CBA does not spook him then he just plays it out.

If Donnie Walunuts knows this, then he does not overpay. Save his assets for another trade after the Melo-Drama.

Donnie Walnuts may know more than us (through a "back-channel" with a funny first name) or he may know nothing, just like us. For those like us who have no back-channel info, we have to proceed based on our gut feelings and willingness for risk.

Mine tells me Melo truly wants to be a Knick, not to use us like LeDouche did as a smoke screen, and not to drive up his value (i.e., he's a max guy, so that would be pointless). My gut says he wants to play the remainder of his career in The Garden because it's his home town and it's the best arena for ballin. Plus his wife wants to further her career in The City.

So my willingness to risk is admittedly higher than many of you. I prefer to risk losing Melo in order to establish our chance to become real contenders rather than a 90s redux team of ECF losers. THat means keeping our Yoots and signing Melo straight up (or trading for him sensibly).