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McK1
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7/21/2009  6:43 PM
Ainge sucked when he first started. He broke up a playoff team. His saving grace was in breaking up the team he started doing deals to collect draft picks. Walsh broke up isiah's mess. Fine. Now start gathering assets. There are ways like using new yorks ability to take on salary to obtain firsts
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knicks1248
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7/21/2009  7:07 PM
You made some good point GoD..but think about the post MJ era when the Bulls a loads of cap space and still to this day can get a super star to sign with them, no veteren wants to be part of a rebuilding team..there has to be an attraction and MDA and the allure of NYC aint cutting it..All I'm saying is, if you were looking to sign possible to all stars then it would be wise to start now and keep room for the big dogg come 2k10
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Bonn1997
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7/21/2009  7:39 PM
Posted by McK1:

hill was the last or next to last workout. he came by himself.
With just about every elite point guard prospect not named Ricky Rubio already making their way to the MSG Training Center for workouts, many experts see the Knicks going small in next week's NBA Draft.

But that didn't prevent Arizona forward Jordan Hill from visiting New York on Tuesday. Perhaps the most athletic big man in the draft, Hill believes he'd be a great addition to the run-and-gun Knicks if he's still available at the No. 8 spot.

"If they do want me, I think I'm a good pick for them," Hill said after his solo workout session in front of President Donnie Walsh and the Knicks' coaching staff. "We just have to see how they feel about me. I know I'm not the only person they've seen, so we just have to see how they feel and who will fit best for them."

http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/workout09hill.html

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 5:21 PM]
This is a bit vague. Was that the only workout session with Hill or did he merely make a comment to some reporter and then later (in the day or week) have another? What does solo workout mean anyway? Does it mean there were no other players present or just no other draft prospects?
McK1
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7/21/2009  9:22 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual EC champ 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.





[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:24 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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7/21/2009  9:24 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual ECF's 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:23 PM]

why?
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McK1
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7/21/2009  9:29 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual ECF's 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:23 PM]

why?

did the Knicks make the play-offs?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GKFv2
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7/21/2009  9:35 PM
You neglect to mention Ainge made little to no moves when he was hired, as he inherited a playoff team. None of the moves he made during his first 2 years impacted the team at all, besides trading old man Gary Payton for Antoine Walker.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
McK1
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7/21/2009  9:48 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

You neglect to mention Ainge made little to no moves when he was hired, as he inherited a playoff team. None of the moves he made during his first 2 years impacted the team at all, besides trading old man Gary Payton for Antoine Walker.

So trading Antoine Walker the teams 2nd leading scorer and leading rebounder along with 1st guard off the bench Tony Delk right before the season started in 03 had no impact?

Trading 6th man Eric Williams in December mattered little too I suppose?

Jim O' Brien resigning that January probably changed little as well?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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7/21/2009  9:54 PM
04 Ainge made alot more moves

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/danny_ainge.htm

there is a page on hoopshype for every active GM/Team Pres chronicling all their transactions
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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7/21/2009  9:56 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual ECF's 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:23 PM]

why?

did the Knicks make the play-offs?

you are suggesting that Walsh, who inherited a 23-win team, should be fired after 1 year because he didn't make the playoffs?
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GKFv2
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7/21/2009  9:56 PM
What part of "they were already a playoff team when he got there" didn't you understand?

When he traded Walker at the time, it wasn't a salary dump. He got back some at-the-time talent. Too bad it was just another Ainge failure.

Eric Williams a major player now? LOL. He got back Ricky Davis and Chris Mihm, 2 guys that helped them make the playoffs. So no, Eric Williams didn't matter.

Jim O'Brien resigned because of Ainge so how exactly are you using this to defend him?

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-21-2009 9:57 PM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
McK1
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7/21/2009  10:06 PM
Walker was traded for Jiri Welsh Chris Mills and Raef Lafrentz. Really he was traded for the Mavs 1st rder. talent wise that was a salary dump.

Eric williams was Boston's 6th man and one of Jim O'Briens fav's. Don't know how that isn't major. He was traded for a headcase. ricky williams had just as much power to sink a team back then as Steph did.

O'Brien did quit cause of Ainge. It still was a major change in personnel.

That playoff team remained far from intact when Ainge took over.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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7/21/2009  10:10 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual ECF's 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:23 PM]

why?

did the Knicks make the play-offs?

you are suggesting that Walsh, who inherited a 23-win team, should be fired after 1 year because he didn't make the playoffs?

nope. I'm suggesting Walsh isn't on Ainge's level when ranking exec's.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
loweyecue
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7/21/2009  11:22 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

I'm not saying get rid of either of them and I'm reluctly giving them there shot at it, but it seems to me that there putting all there chips on the same number hoping to get lucky..the funny thing is MDA says it in almost every single interview.."We need to get lucky" which to some degree he's right.. But what I would like to here is plan B..neither IT or layden had a plan B, and that was there freaken problem.. What happens if none of the top 5 FA land in ny what the hell is your next move..

The knicks aren't selling .lol..what are they doing, cause they aint buying neither.

I've been around long enough to know you need to have another plan in place if sht don't work out, not scratching your head all dress up a pocket full and no date.

This regime as yet to diclose that plan.

Curry and rubio, hill and kidd...lee and nate..these plans are not coming together at all..

What happens is we still give ourselves a shot at acquiring the next best thing. Whoever becomes available and when. This is is the absolute best way to put ourselves in the mix to get some star players. That's all a GM can do. NO ONE can guarantee someone signs next year, if they don't move on to 2011. But the thing you don't do is the Isiah style clusterstarphuch.
We have had enuff effing wannabes and has beens we need real stars and this is the way to get them.
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GKFv2
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7/21/2009  11:49 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

ainge started off real shaky but he stockpiled alot of picks and talent to be able to make the 2 trades he made. Al jefferson in the mid first. Gomes in the 2nd. He bought the suns pick for rondo. Got a first out of the heat for walker after he brought him back to appease pierce and make the playoffs in 05. He even got the best of Jerry West in that Banks and Perkins for Troy Bell and somebody else deal.

Im with GSTK....

I think you are implying that we should give Walsh at least 3 years of **** ups before we can really start to judge him.

Ainge in Boston:

03-04 Ainge's first season in Boston they made the play-offs.
04-05 Ainge's 2nd season in Boston, the Celtics won their first Atlantic division title under him.
05-06 lottery
06-07 lottery
07-08 World Champs
08-09 lose KG for 2nd half of season and still take eventual ECF's 7 games in the 2nd rd.

Implying Walsh should do it the Ainge way means he would have already failed.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-21-2009 9:23 PM]

why?

did the Knicks make the play-offs?

you are suggesting that Walsh, who inherited a 23-win team, should be fired after 1 year because he didn't make the playoffs?

nope. I'm suggesting Walsh isn't on Ainge's level when ranking exec's.

LMAO.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
GKFv2
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7/21/2009  11:59 PM
Posted by McK1:

Walker was traded for Jiri Welsh Chris Mills and Raef Lafrentz. Really he was traded for the Mavs 1st rder. talent wise that was a salary dump.

Eric williams was Boston's 6th man and one of Jim O'Briens fav's. Don't know how that isn't major. He was traded for a headcase. ricky williams had just as much power to sink a team back then as Steph did.

O'Brien did quit cause of Ainge. It still was a major change in personnel.

That playoff team remained far from intact when Ainge took over.

When you trade and then acquire back Antoine a year later, it wasn't a salary dump. Lafrentz was still making tons of money back then on a contract that only expired this offseason.

Eric Williams sucks. I mean honestly. Jim O'Brien's favorites? Their bench was terrible. Williams was one of those terrible players. He got traded for Ricky Davis and Chris Mihm. Mihm was a key player on the team off the bench in 17 minutes and Davis played 30 mpg averaging 14 ppg. The next season he averaged 16 ppg on 32 mpg. They made the playoffs regardless of such a "big time" trade, just LIKE THEY DID THE PREVIOUS SEASON WHEN AINGE WAS NOT GM.

O'Brien left. Major personnel change that was a result of Ainge. That was Ainge's failure.

I'm trying to understand though. The team was a playoff team, Ainge makes terrible trades that don't help the team at all but they still manage to make the playoffs since the core was still there before he got there, gets the team into the lottery eventually and then is bailed out by his boy in Minny and he automatically becomes an amazing GM?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
McK1
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7/22/2009  12:22 AM
you made this statement when I first comped Ainge and Walsh:
Posted by GKFv2:

You neglect to mention Ainge made little to no moves when he was hired, as he inherited a playoff team. None of the moves he made during his first 2 years impacted the team at all, besides trading old man Gary Payton for Antoine Walker.

I showed he did.

Your rebuttal was destroyed. It doesn't matter what you think or say after that. A little bit of research on your part would've saved you. I already knew cuz me and boykins2 who use to post here and on the Times forum discussed Ainge in depth back in 04. He said Ainge is doing it right. I said Ainge is f'ing up, he tore down a play-off team and surrounded Pierce with a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players. He laughed and said draft picks are the life blood of an organization. Thats how you build. Ainge will end up being a better GM than Thomas, you'll see. Thomas will mire NY in cap hell with no picks or wins to show for it. He was right.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GKFv2
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7/22/2009  12:36 AM
I said none of the moves impacted the team, as they still made the playoffs. You probably stopped reading early, as always.

I really cannot take any of your posts seriously anymore. Not with you praising Ainge, calling to bring in Baron Davis, hiring Chris Mullin and firing D'Antoni for Avery Johnson. Good luck finding someone who will.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-22-2009 12:38 AM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
ramtour420
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7/22/2009  1:12 AM
Posted by McK1:

you made this statement when I first comped Ainge and Walsh:
Posted by GKFv2:

You neglect to mention Ainge made little to no moves when he was hired, as he inherited a playoff team. None of the moves he made during his first 2 years impacted the team at all, besides trading old man Gary Payton for Antoine Walker.

I showed he did.

Your rebuttal was destroyed. It doesn't matter what you think or say after that. A little bit of research on your part would've saved you. I already knew cuz me and boykins2 who use to post here and on the Times forum discussed Ainge in depth back in 04. He said Ainge is doing it right.
I said Ainge is f'ing up, he tore down a play-off team and surrounded Pierce with a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players. He laughed and said draft picks are the life blood of an organization. Thats how you build.
Ainge will end up being a better GM than Thomas, you'll see. Thomas will mire NY in cap hell with no picks or wins to show for it. He was right.

Alrite, so how does that make walsh a worse GM? Lets see: did not have a playoff team to begin with, he does not have any all-stars, he did not trade away any picks(only purchased)there aren't any more players that are all-stars looking to be moved and be had for minimal assets in comparison(like us getting Tim Duncan or even Cris Bosh for Chandler+filler), true we could probably do something like the Ray Allen trade at some point, but without the other 2 of the Big Three it would look dumb. So why exactly are you comparing Walsh and Ainge GM skills? Oh wait let me guess, apples to oranges?

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
ramtour420
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7/22/2009  1:15 AM
The second quote(not bolded) is the one i was referring to in the post above.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
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