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tonight's game thread: let's stop the philly celebration RIGHT NOW!!
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holfresh
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10/31/2008  9:52 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by holfresh:


It's watchable if there is one player with upside that you can watch develop..Right now the Knicks has nothing...

We can't forget we still have Lee, Nate, Chandler and Gallinari. Maybe none has star potential. Maybe none becomes a starter in this league (Chandler could) but they could still become strong bench players on a contender.

The problem is, that's only 4 players out of 15. Who else could still be here for 2010? ZBo is horrible on defense and takes too many shots. Craw isnt the ideal shooting guard.

My point exactly...They are very good roll players at best...These players don't make you watch games...There is no excitement or hope of anything at the moment...I hope one of these guys step up...Gallo has no legs by the way...He is not in NBA shape yet...

AUTOADVERT
SlimPack
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10/31/2008  10:03 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by holfresh:


It's watchable if there is one player with upside that you can watch develop..Right now the Knicks has nothing...

We can't forget we still have Lee, Nate, Chandler and Gallinari. Maybe none has star potential. Maybe none becomes a starter in this league (Chandler could) but they could still become strong bench players on a contender.

The problem is, that's only 4 players out of 15. Who else could still be here for 2010? ZBo is horrible on defense and takes too many shots. Craw isnt the ideal shooting guard.

My point exactly...They are very good roll players at best...These players don't make you watch games...There is no excitement or hope of anything at the moment...I hope one of these guys step up...Gallo has no legs by the way...He is not in NBA shape yet...


Meh. It's not a big deal to me. There hasn't been any excitement for a while now, and there probably won't be any for a while. It'll take some time before the Knicks get what it takes to be a winning team.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 10-31-2008 10:06 PM]
Knicksfan
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10/31/2008  10:43 PM
Philly still has our number. They've won 10 of the last 12 games against us...
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nixluva
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11/1/2008  12:06 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by holfresh:


It's watchable if there is one player with upside that you can watch develop..Right now the Knicks has nothing...

We can't forget we still have Lee, Nate, Chandler and Gallinari. Maybe none has star potential. Maybe none becomes a starter in this league (Chandler could) but they could still become strong bench players on a contender.

The problem is, that's only 4 players out of 15. Who else could still be here for 2010? ZBo is horrible on defense and takes too many shots. Craw isnt the ideal shooting guard.

My point exactly...They are very good roll players at best...These players don't make you watch games...There is no excitement or hope of anything at the moment...I hope one of these guys step up...Gallo has no legs by the way...He is not in NBA shape yet...


Holfresh I think you're taking this too far. To say these players don't make you watch games? To say they don't provide excitement or hope of anything at the moment? Man you've really lost your Knick soul. These players are trying to learn how to win in this league and they do have talent enough to be more than just role players. Rip, Billups and Prince were once thought of as merely role players, but they got better, added Wallace and went even higher. That team didn't have a bunch of superstars.

GKFv2
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11/1/2008  12:12 AM
That team won on stifling defense and did something rare that will probably not be matched again. You can't win without a superstar anymore.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
jazz74
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11/1/2008  12:16 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Philly still has our number. They've won 10 of the last 12 games against us...

including sweeping us last year. i HATE philly with a passion and we get blown out by them. my worse nightmare over and over again since it happened last year too. maybe i should stop watching sports since this year has been a disappointing one for me. well, except for the giants.
anrst
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11/1/2008  8:21 AM
where is frank williams when we need him?
Elite
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11/1/2008  12:49 PM
Lee played some of the worse defense i've ever seen last night
Knicksfan
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11/1/2008  1:05 PM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Philly still has our number. They've won 10 of the last 12 games against us...

including sweeping us last year. i HATE philly with a passion and we get blown out by them. my worse nightmare over and over again since it happened last year too. maybe i should stop watching sports since this year has been a disappointing one for me. well, except for the giants.

Yeah, only the Giants.
Knicks_Fan
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11/1/2008  1:06 PM
Posted by Elite:

Lee played some of the worse defense i've ever seen last night

Terrible...
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buddapaw
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11/1/2008  1:28 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by Elite:

Lee played some of the worse defense i've ever seen last night

Terrible...

Putrid, he's not a starting PF in this league - good second unit guy. Barely a Jumpshot and pinwheel defense he looked scared ****less of Brand
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
holfresh
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11/1/2008  4:27 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by holfresh:


It's watchable if there is one player with upside that you can watch develop..Right now the Knicks has nothing...

We can't forget we still have Lee, Nate, Chandler and Gallinari. Maybe none has star potential. Maybe none becomes a starter in this league (Chandler could) but they could still become strong bench players on a contender.

The problem is, that's only 4 players out of 15. Who else could still be here for 2010? ZBo is horrible on defense and takes too many shots. Craw isnt the ideal shooting guard.

My point exactly...They are very good roll players at best...These players don't make you watch games...There is no excitement or hope of anything at the moment...I hope one of these guys step up...Gallo has no legs by the way...He is not in NBA shape yet...


Holfresh I think you're taking this too far. To say these players don't make you watch games? To say they don't provide excitement or hope of anything at the moment? Man you've really lost your Knick soul. These players are trying to learn how to win in this league and they do have talent enough to be more than just role players. Rip, Billups and Prince were once thought of as merely role players, but they got better, added Wallace and went even higher. That team didn't have a bunch of superstars.

Here is my overall beef...These players cannot execute this offense...In general they are low percentage shooters...This style of play doesn't put defense in the mix...It's predicated on players shooting the ball within seven seconds of inbounding the ball...So I'm basically watching Craw(whose game I hate), jacking it as up quickly as possible...To me and only me, that's unwatchable...Watching young kids not work hard on defense is as possible unwatchable...To others, this is exciting basketball... I will never understand taking the lowest percentage shot as the first option, being perceived a good sound basketball...I will always think taking the highest percentage shots the best option to teach young kids and eventually win basketball games...If that's losing my Knick soul, so be it...

I'm old school...I liked when the Giants played defense and not try to outscore the opponent...They got back to defense and won a Championship...My Knick soul remembers great Knick teams playing defense...These players isn't going to turn into great shooters much like players on PHX....This is game two and I know it early to sound the alarm but I voiced my opposition against MDA if we were rebuilding and going with young players...Mark Jackson would have been a better choice to grow with a young team...It's the first time Isle's and I agreed on anything...

This style of play don't win in the playoffs even with high percentage shooters...It's proven...PHX has been overmatched in the playoffs the last four years...So I disagree with you in saying this is like Detroit's situation...The players on Detroit were playing their strengths...Defense and a slow deliberate style of play...They found a coach that built upon that...We are now trying to put a square peg in a round hole...These players are low percentage shooters...I know how this will end...Watching it will slowly kill me...So I haven't lost my Knick soul, MDA and Walsh is slowly killing it...





[Edited by - holfresh on 11-01-2008 6:24 PM]
TMS
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11/2/2008  3:38 AM
lol, i always get a kick outta the fans' utter outrage over a loss to a far superior team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Allanfan20
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11/2/2008  3:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

lol, i always get a kick outta the fans' utter outrage over a loss to a far superior team.

Clearly Mark Jackson would have done a better job.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
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11/2/2008  12:27 PM

If you guys took the time read what was written, It has nothing to do with this or any loss but more the direction of the organization...Ah whats the point....
TMS
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11/2/2008  12:38 PM
how does one determine the direction of this organization based off 1 game, Win or Loss? it's crazy talk... they got blown out by a much better team... it's gonna happen plenty more times this year so get used to it... if u view the direction of this team realistically u'r not gonna be surprised when u watch games like that this season... it's gonna take a while for these guys to learn this system & until they upgrade the talent on this team they're just not gonna be all that good to begin with... i'd say at the absolute best this team can be at .500 but that's still too optimistic to hope for.

so yeah, it sucks to watch these guys get their butts handed to them... i don't like it anymore than the next guy... but that's where this team is right now & it's gonna be that way for another year or 2 at the very least IMO.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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11/2/2008  1:25 PM
Posted by TMS:

how does one determine the direction of this organization based off 1 game, Win or Loss? it's crazy talk... they got blown out by a much better team... it's gonna happen plenty more times this year so get used to it... if u view the direction of this team realistically u'r not gonna be surprised when u watch games like that this season... it's gonna take a while for these guys to learn this system & until they upgrade the talent on this team they're just not gonna be all that good to begin with... i'd say at the absolute best this team can be at .500 but that's still too optimistic to hope for.

so yeah, it sucks to watch these guys get their butts handed to them... i don't like it anymore than the next guy... but that's where this team is right now & it's gonna be that way for another year or 2 at the very least IMO.

I hope I am wrong, but I think the offense that MDA runs don't win Championships and hasn't...He had the perfect point guard for that system, the talent around him, he still couldn't win one...I think playoff basketball is all about the half court game..His premise is taking low percentage shots as your first option is a bad one...I don't care who is on the rosters 3 years from now, its not a winning formula...



[Edited by - holfresh on 11-02-2008 1:26 PM]
Allanfan20
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11/2/2008  1:42 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:

how does one determine the direction of this organization based off 1 game, Win or Loss? it's crazy talk... they got blown out by a much better team... it's gonna happen plenty more times this year so get used to it... if u view the direction of this team realistically u'r not gonna be surprised when u watch games like that this season... it's gonna take a while for these guys to learn this system & until they upgrade the talent on this team they're just not gonna be all that good to begin with... i'd say at the absolute best this team can be at .500 but that's still too optimistic to hope for.

so yeah, it sucks to watch these guys get their butts handed to them... i don't like it anymore than the next guy... but that's where this team is right now & it's gonna be that way for another year or 2 at the very least IMO.

I hope I am wrong, but I think the offense that MDA runs don't win Championships and hasn't...He had the perfect point guard for that system, the talent around him, he still couldn't win one...I think playoff basketball is all about the half court game..His premise is taking low percentage shots as your first option is a bad one...I don't care who is on the rosters 3 years from now, its not a winning formula...



[Edited by - holfresh on 11-02-2008 1:26 PM]

His system wasn't as flawed as you say. All systems have flaws, besides say the dynasties, and all dynasties collapse. His system needed consistent shooters, and the Suns, besides Steve Nash, didn't have one single shooter, for all those years, besides Johnson, that they can consistently go to. Raja was basically Bruce Bowen. Marion was inconsistent. Amare was a low post player. The one year they had the shot to win was their first year, when they had Q and JJ, and those players both fell to injury, and that was all she wrote.

Offensive systems need good consistent offensive players, and after that, they never really had one, besides Nash.

Their defense was never great, but they were a scramble team remember and a hustle team, so it wasn't as big of an issue as people made it out to be.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
King1
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11/2/2008  1:43 PM
Holfresh I am going to my double wide and shoot myself after I say this. I totally agree this is Loyola Marymount, or the San Diego Chargers in the Dan Fouts fun to watch but half court game with defense and not turning over the ball wins big games.
Uptown
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11/2/2008  1:50 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:

how does one determine the direction of this organization based off 1 game, Win or Loss? it's crazy talk... they got blown out by a much better team... it's gonna happen plenty more times this year so get used to it... if u view the direction of this team realistically u'r not gonna be surprised when u watch games like that this season... it's gonna take a while for these guys to learn this system & until they upgrade the talent on this team they're just not gonna be all that good to begin with... i'd say at the absolute best this team can be at .500 but that's still too optimistic to hope for.

so yeah, it sucks to watch these guys get their butts handed to them... i don't like it anymore than the next guy... but that's where this team is right now & it's gonna be that way for another year or 2 at the very least IMO.

I hope I am wrong, but I think the offense that MDA runs don't win Championships and hasn't...He had the perfect point guard for that system, the talent around him, he still couldn't win one...I think playoff basketball is all about the half court game..His premise is taking low percentage shots as your first option is a bad one...I don't care who is on the rosters 3 years from now, its not a winning formula...



[Edited by - holfresh on 11-02-2008 1:26 PM]

you are way off and your observations on D'Antoni's offense is inaccurate. First off, his premiss is not to taking low % shots as your first option. The idea behind the offense is to take hich quality shots or your first OPEN shot. This whole 7 seconds or less is not accurate. It was a catchy title for a book but the idea is not to jack up a shot in under 7 seconds. The offense is based on player and ball movement. Its a layered offense that predicates itself on acurate player reads. We dont have the heady players nor the shooters or athletes to really help this offense take off.

To say that D'Antoni had the perfect team and still couldn't win the championship isn't being fair. The Spurs were flat-out better teams than those Suns teams and any team in the league for that matter as they have the rings to prove it. And that Suns team was not perfect as they were desperately missing a post defender to slow down Duncan. I can give you a slew of coaches over the history of the gam that had really good teams, built also for thier style and they have no rngs to show for it.

Don Nelsons 87 Bucks. Really, really good team but they ran into Bird and Celtics.
Rick Adlemans 90-92 Blazers. Built to run his system but ran into Jordan and the Bulls
Adelmans Kinigs. Ran into Shaq and Kobe.
Sloans and the Jazz....Ran into the better player in Jordan....

It happeneds. But at the end of the day the better player's team usually prevails..



[Edited by - uptown on 11-02-2008 1:50 PM]
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tonight's game thread: let's stop the philly celebration RIGHT NOW!!
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