Posted by misterearl:

The Answer Man Would Never Say Love It Or Leave It

Q. martin - what qualifies a great nation and who are they?

A. Two weeks ago I was riding with two colleagues in Toronto. One remarked, "you know if we got in an accident, no matter what happened, all one of us would be taken to a hospital and be very well taken care of, no questions asked...". Now, I'm not offering Canada as an example of a great country on the hype scale... it's was cold as dirt and we know their army cannot kick much azz but...

I'm jus' sayin'

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TheloniusMonk:

If it wasn't for our ancestors sacrifice--we may not be here today.

Briggs, you see this statement you made right there? That is the total opposite of when you said people are "over" slavery and thse things should not be brought up (when referring to Rev Wright). You see.....in the black community we feel the SAME way. You hit the quote on the head "If it wasn't for our ancestor's sacrifice--we may not be here today". I am so glad you said this. Your statement totally gave relevance to why the ugly history of race relations is STILL important today. We, as the black community, stand on the shoulders of our ancestors who were spat upon, raped, sodomized, whipped....well you get the picture. Thru it all, WE'RE STILL HERE. When some are celebrating the 4th of July in this country others mourn their "ancestors" as you put it. This is not unpatriotic. It's THE TRUTH about the history of this nation. This is a strange and peculiar concept because OUR ancestors suffered at the hands of THIS country. The United States. So you, my friend, must understand why there may be a difference in view coming out of the black community. In the black community there is always a flip side to the story. To you George Washington may be the guy who chopped down the cherry tree and could not tell a lie. To someone else he owned over 400 slaves. You cannot run from the WHOLE story of this nation because when you do history is not in it's TRUE form. It's not unpatriotic to say so. It's mere truth. Yes many many many people of all races have put their lives on the line and some lost their lives for this country (including the guy you love to hate, Rev Wright). Many black soldiers fought in the Civil War along side their white brothers. Yes, Lincoln "freed" the slaves...but on the flip side to that coin as we celebrate a great president YOU cannot forget that he also said "if I could keep every slave a slave and yet save the union I would". It's not unpatriotic to say these things about Lincoln. It's mere truth. Yes there was a reconstruction period where my ancestors were supposedly given a chance to succeed only to be followed by voting rights taken away and Jim Crow implimented. So you see, for those who choose to ignore the flip side to the story of this nation....a story that is continuing to be told til this very day....then you will ALWAYS be out of touch with people who are AWARE of such things in their currently lives and situations. That was a very good statement Briggs. Thanks for that. You were totally on the money!

---> Many black soldiers fought in the Civil War along side their white brothers--you have the right. I don't know where I brought up GW--you did. I said OUR military is the backbone of our society for our EXSISTENCE and is the reason why we are free today.

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.

Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a

is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

Posted by simrud:

Killa saying that that you are cool with Farrakhan because he does good community work is like a white person saying they are cool with the Klan because they did community work, too. The Nazis did some good community work for the Germans I hear as well, they must be ok in your book, too.
[Edited by - simrud on 03-21-2008 2:44 PM]

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by Killa4luv:

BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.

Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a

is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.

Do you agree with Wright when he said:

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

NO i dont agree with that, theres no proof of that. But its not so far fetched to say, the gov't did inject black men with siphilis. But in general, i dont like to support wild things like that which have absolutely no ounce of proof to support them. The more radical the assertion, the more proof needed. But when you look at the history of thing this gov't has participated in, particularly against people of color, I can see how people would suspect that.

So then you'd agree with me that that its quite disappointing that Wright would stoop to lies in order to dupe his audience into a false enmity?

I'm not answering for Killa because he's of course able to hold his own lol.....but in case you didn't know the "America started AIDS in Africa" is not a theory started by Jeremiah Wright, nor a person of color for that matter. It's a theory (much like the Kennedy assassination, King assassination, 9/11 and so on). Many people feel that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves whatever it is they choose to believe. I don't think these people should be called liars. The Kennedy assassination, to many, is conceivable. The fact that Dr King was on the FBI list as a "threat to national security" (whatever that meant) it's conceivable that James Earl Ray was framed or perhaps didn't work alone. Now, has the US ever done things pertaining to disease and the deliberate deaths of black men. Most certainly. I think by Killa bringing up the Syphilis experiment (where syphilis were deliberately injected into black men in Tuskegee and which is one of the most inhumane things that I can think of) it is conceivable that HIV/AIDS were yet another "experiment" aimed at people of color. And get this, it went on for 40 YEARS. So the project was actually passed down to NEW doctors who came into the picture as time progressed. Now, I don't have an opinion on the AIDS things either way. I'm not a conspiracy guy. But I do understand when something is conceivable. So I don't think it's about a person "stooping to lies" as you say Rev Wright did. Perhaps he is wrong. But when looking at the Tuskegee experiment and the examining some of the info various doctors over the years have put out in conjunction with that theory, I can see how many feel it's possible or perhaps true.