Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bippity10:

Isiah has built a young exciting team. Layden built an old and washed up team. So far neither of them has given us a better than .500 record. How is that? Is that fair?

If you read between the lines of what you said, you can see... "Layden tried really hard and did a great job of building an old and washed up team."

Stop being such a Layden-Lover Bip.

You'll find that most of the Layden lovers were also Larry lovers.

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bippity10:

Isiah has built a young exciting team. Layden built an old and washed up team. So far neither of them has given us a better than .500 record. How is that? Is that fair?

If you read between the lines of what you said, you can see... "Layden tried really hard and did a great job of building an old and washed up team."

Stop being such a Layden-Lover Bip.

You'll find that most of the Layden lovers were also Larry lovers.

Who are the Layden lovers? I have yet to meet one.

Solace, CodeUnknown, Allanfan and Blue are toast at the next Bippity get togehter.

djsu - excellent research

what are your expectations for Eddy Curry at 26 and David Lee at 25?

Posted by RemBee76:

Posted by Bippity10:
Guy, noone in any of my posts bitched about the 33 win season.

---

But when others do, I have trouble seeing it as "honest opinion".

Sorry if you got lumped in with other posters, Bip, bit to be fair it happens all the time here and everyonedoes it, so maybe next time address the point or ignore the post if you don't think it applies to you.

Plenty here do bitch about the 33 win season. When you post the core of the team and ask "what do we do if they have another 33 win season?" it strikes me as fairly implicit that you are dismissing last year's circumstances.

You ask us to accept a fairly obvious point. Please show me where I have said Isiah should be considered a good, or even passable GM before his team gets wins on the court.

What I ask is why it is so hard to understand that there might be steps along the way we need to ascend before that happens. We can argue if last year we saw some of those steps ascended. Plenty here think we didn't, almost proudly waving the 33 wins as evidence. I would argue that we did, in fact, take some major steps forward.

I won't hazard a guess on where you stand, lest we all have to endure 10 replies about how I got it wrong.

In regards to this:
"Please show me where I have said Isiah should be considered a good, or even passable GM before his team gets wins on the court."
I was actually referring to Mister Earl. So please take your own advice :
"Sorry if you got lumped in with other posters, Bip, bit to be fair it happens all the time here and everyonedoes it, so maybe next time address the point or ignore the post if you don't think it applies to you."

Okay sarcasm aside, back to the topic at hand.
First of all I'm not dismissing last years circumstances. I am taking them into account. Injuries hurt us. So did biotching about fans, pouting at the beginning of the season, losing games to other teams that suffered similar injuries to ours. It's all factored in. The injuries are unavoidable and I do not criticize the team for struggling during those stretches. But I do criticize them for doing the other things that also helped contribute to our record. Whether we win 30,31, 32, 33, 34, 35 it's all the same. It all stinks. The question is when do we actually acheive what our talent says we should or godforbid overacheive. Why are underachievement and excuses always the result. Circumstances are never going to be perfect so at some point we have to take advantage of opportunities when they are perfect. We can't be using those times to biotch about fans and last year and LB. Two years ago it was LB. Last year it was injuries. At what point as a GM/fan do you look at your roster, see it not meet expectations(for whatever reason) and start to analyze it based on the amount of wins it actually had. At what point do we stop with the caveat in regards to our record? You want a fundamental shift in the organization and mindset of the team(like Earl suggests) this is the first one that has to happen. Once you stop with the caveats and set a standard regardless of circumstance, players are inclined to do whatever they can to overachieve because that is what is expected. In the end this tends to be the result. But when you have caveats, teams always perform accordingly

Lastly, we keep talking about subtle changes that need to take affect for our team to take it to the next level. I agree that it comes in steps. For us to improve we need our team to gel and grow as basketball players and men. This takes time. This we can wait for. We know the young guys are going to make mistakes on the floor and this should be tolerated. Fans that bicker about this are being impatient. I agree 100% with you, EArl, Nixluva and anyone else in this regard. But there are some things that should not be tolerated. Players coming into camp out of shape. Players playing selfishly and behaving so on the bench. Players not concentrating on the defensive end. These are little things that can be improved tomorrow and should not be waited for. A certain selection of our fan base(not saying you) does not even want to ask for this. They are okay with waiting a few years for certain players to decide that being in shape is good for the overall team effort. They are okay with waiting for 5,6 ,7, 8, 9, 10 year veterans to finally decide to concentrate on defense. We all know this minimal effort could change our fortunes tomorrow. But if you ask for it you are called a "hater". It's weird I tell you.



[Edited by - bippity10 on 24-07-2007 5:10 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 24-07-2007 5:11 PM]

Posted by misterearl:

djsu - excellent research

what are your expectations for Eddy Curry at 26 and David Lee at 25?

at this point, i don't have any expectations for any individuals. it's tough to guage how good a player can become in a few years. some players never get a jumpshot. some players never learn shot selection. some players become better rebounders. some players become better shooters. tough to say who will get better and who won't.

the expectations are that the team makes the playoffs. the east is wide open, just getting into the playoffs could result in a deep playoff run. the knicks have to get in this season. if they don't...well something wrong is going on.

The Randolph trade forces Eddy to find another niche for himself. He wants the ball so bad? Go grab a rebound big fella. You want the nice entry pass? Try making some sharp passes to cutters when the ball is in your hand. You gotta give to get Eddy.

Well I guess we have to bank on Eddy being a couple years more mature and rounding out his self-proclaimed all-star game. He thought he was robbed last year. Lets see him motivated this year. Why not. If all else fails, I think you can now trad him as concerns about the heart are wearing off. I could see Kobe throwing Bynum under two buses to get Curry, cuz he's in a hurry. Oh, Clyde!

From The Associated Press

Knowledgeable Knicks Fans Miss The Absolute Best Part About Zach Randolph

The axis of influence shifts squarely to the frontcourt as the most influential player, in terms of not backing down to a teammate, is Zach Randolph. In Randolph, the Knicks have player who will not tolerate any wayward scowls from Marbury, any slouching from Eddy Curry or any accidental elbows from David Lee.

Who knows what his reaction would be? One thing is certain, Zach Randolph ain't no punk and the Knicks could use a traffic cop (as Larry Bird was once described) to enforce order.

The absolute best benefit of Z-Bo to David Lee's game is Lee gets to matchup with a forward in practice who has some outside game. Something Lee neeeds to work on, along with his shot.

(If Lee had Greene's jumper he would be an all-star)

Now, I'm not suggesting their matchup will take on the intensity of the memorable practice scrap between Anthony Mason and Xavier McDaniel, but it could raise the competitive juices of both basketball players and solidify the NYK four spot.

That is a good thing.

Somewhere, Zeke is smiling in fond memory of the bad boys