Posted by BlueSeats:

for better or worse, in Larry's system this year no one is being locked out. Sure, plenty pass thru his dog house for a spell, but he's not given up an anyone -- not the rookies and not the vets.

EVERYONE still gets the change to prove themselves. Nobody has been banished or put on death row. Anyone who's able to play gets to play. His judgments are not locked in and guys are welcome to get with the program and join the team at anytime.

I also think some guys underestimate the political land mine that banishing the vets to the bench would entail. for instance who really thinks the fans, dolan and isiah are down with giving up on Marbury before the season is over. Ditto for the multiples of millions invested in Rose and francis. It still must be determined if they are workable in any way, and it really doesn't look good to effectively announce that the owner and GM have wasted 125M in payroll that would have been better spent on rookies and NBDL guys.

I know that's the ultimate message that has resulted, as some of us have argued for well before the season even began, but it's best when the owner and GM makes that determination rather than the coach.

Posted by djsunyc:

as the season has gone along, despite all the crap heard in the media, lb is still coaching. he indicated early on that things weren't going to be a optimistic as anticipated by all of us. he kept stressing turnovers and defense...none of which really improved as the season went along. combine that with trying to develop over HALF of our roster and making them earn their minutes, things kind of looked in disarray to all of us...but i don't think they were. if lb settled on a 8-9 man rotation from day one, that means some of our beloved rooks would get the pinch. then everybody would've been complaining about that. when he gives guys time, and they continue to turnover the ball or have mental lapses on defense, how do you not take away time when they don't do it? combine that with steph, the best player on the team and pg, apparently not buying into lb 100% from the get go, and you hear lb talk about "not having a head out there." steph took it personally, but he easily dismissed when lb said he was playing like a superstar during the 6 game win streak. if anything lb has been candid to a fault. and the egos couldn't handle it. does lb have an ego - hell yeah, but his intentions are still to make each and every player on the team better. down 20 points, he's still calling players over and coaching them. down 25 with :30 on the clock and he's still arguing with refs. could things have been handled differently? sure. especially with the media hounds here in nyc. but you can see the effects on people that have bought in. you can see the growth in some of our players, not only in their game on the court, but their mental approach as well. nate just called him a "father figure." the season was set up when steph said "i don't care about #'s if we win, but if we don't, i won't be happy." he said that BEFORE the season started which means he wasn't sold at any point this year. alot of people are upset with lb, but i think it's somewhat displaced. i think it's the frustration that many of us thought we had enough talent when in october, lb said we didn't.

Posted by Marv:

Posted by djsunyc:

as the season has gone along, despite all the crap heard in the media, lb is still coaching. he indicated early on that things weren't going to be a optimistic as anticipated by all of us. he kept stressing turnovers and defense...none of which really improved as the season went along. combine that with trying to develop over HALF of our roster and making them earn their minutes, things kind of looked in disarray to all of us...but i don't think they were. if lb settled on a 8-9 man rotation from day one, that means some of our beloved rooks would get the pinch. then everybody would've been complaining about that. when he gives guys time, and they continue to turnover the ball or have mental lapses on defense, how do you not take away time when they don't do it? combine that with steph, the best player on the team and pg, apparently not buying into lb 100% from the get go, and you hear lb talk about "not having a head out there." steph took it personally, but he easily dismissed when lb said he was playing like a superstar during the 6 game win streak. if anything lb has been candid to a fault. and the egos couldn't handle it. does lb have an ego - hell yeah, but his intentions are still to make each and every player on the team better. down 20 points, he's still calling players over and coaching them. down 25 with :30 on the clock and he's still arguing with refs. could things have been handled differently? sure. especially with the media hounds here in nyc. but you can see the effects on people that have bought in. you can see the growth in some of our players, not only in their game on the court, but their mental approach as well. nate just called him a "father figure." the season was set up when steph said "i don't care about #'s if we win, but if we don't, i won't be happy." he said that BEFORE the season started which means he wasn't sold at any point this year. alot of people are upset with lb, but i think it's somewhat displaced. i think it's the frustration that many of us thought we had enough talent when in october, lb said we didn't.

dj, well put and I'd say it covers 1/2 of the story here.

Here's the other half. A quick illustration - when we signed LB, my buddy in Denver told me, "Just wait - Larry's gonna run his BS on YOUR team now and you're gonna see how you feel." This guy is still fuming DECADES later after Larry coached the Nuggets!!! And now I do see his point - it's only 1/2 the point but it's still a point.

I always admired LB a lot. But it was always from afar! As he hacked his way through franchises and everyone had to bend to his ego and his rigidity, I could detachedly say well that's what they need. They'll thank him in the long run. And besides he'll split before anyone can actually kill him.

So hopefully we'll get to benefit from LB's ways here the way other franchises have. But in the meantime 1/2 of my reactions toward him are negative, because he is a rigid ego-driven little prick in the ways he goes about what he's doing. And if he's gonna deliver a 20-win season as part of the process in his makeover, he better expect some scrutiny and reactions to his methods in doling it out.

Posted by Marv:

Posted by djsunyc:

and that's fine b/c to me, it doesn't matter that he does all this nonsense b/c at the end of the day, the team will be better off. we just lived through 4-5 years of layden. i can deal with all this media BS b/c we WILL be better off at the end of the day. i've accepted it's the name in the front of the jersey, not on the back. i've detached myself from the players on the team and attached myself to the team itself. i like quentin. i like nate. i like malik. my 3 favorite players on the team. if they were traded i would be upset as a fan of the players but as a fan of the team, if it makes us better by moving them, then i'd be ecstatic.

all right big shot, how ya gonna deal if he axes our beloved big game

Jerome James failed to give the Knicks all that he promised them — rebounds, blocked shots and a mean streak in the paint — so he gave them the one thing he could: a mea culpa. James, who signed a $30 million deal last summer, recently promised Isiah Thomas, the Knicks president, and Coach Larry Brown that he would return in top condition next fall. He admitted to failing in that regard last October. "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who came in shape and who didn't," said James, who recently admitted his sins to Brown. "I'm more of a professional than that, so I was upset with myself. That's why I brought it to his attention, and I let him know and Isiah know that, barring some type of injury over the summer, I would never come in like that again. Not with this team or any team."

Posted by bobs3304:

^ get a life noob.

Posted by oohah:

Like I said unless I say trade, ban or fire you guys are of the belief that I love everything that person does. The message is clear. I have not varied in 7 years. I have said the same about LB, Don, Lenny and Herb. About Laydne and Zeke. About Allan and Marbs. But some in their fervor and zeal to blame one man for our failures just can't see it.

That might be believable if you ever assigned one iota of blame to LB, or if you had ever suggested that it was possible that LB has done something wrong this season. But for everything he has done you have an explanation for how it is essential to future success. At least those other coaches were defensible, this season is indefensible, no matter who you point the finger at. LB is the coach, he gets the W's and the L's for a reason. No, it is not all in the service of future victories.

Please tell me: has LB done anything detrimental to the success of this team that doesn't have a qualifier behind it? This I'd like to see!

If you are decribing someone as blaming only LB, then you are describing someone besides me. I have commented about IT's failings as well. I don't care for Marbury. I have said this team was poor since early season. I just blame LB for making them extra-bad. If he had done even a mediocre job, I would have been fine with him for this season.

oohah

I found the disconnect. You care about this year and the record. I don't. I care about the long-term and bringing a successful team to NY and what is the plan in doing so. Year to year records and winning 20 or 35 games means nothing to me. LB has not done a good job coaching us to wins this year. I have said it over 50 times, yet everytime I say it someone says that's the first time I've said it. Or that somehow I'm flipflopping. If I say it into the summer I guess I will still be flipflopping. But what you guys are missing is that this year's record is not important to me. What is important is changing the direction of the franchise. Setting a standard and sticking to it no matter what so that the players no longer run the place. I'm not sure how more clear I can make it. LB has not done a great job of showing us wins. But if you pay attention, no matter how much you hate his antics he is taking the power away from the players. Now some may not think that's important(and that's of course a matter of opinion), but I find it important and that's why I am ecstatic that LB is here despite his record.

If you want me to over-react and bash LB and call for his head or bash his coaching style it's just not going to happen. You'll notice I don't do those things. That's why in the past I've been called a Spree lover, an Allan lover, A LB lover, A Marbs lover etc. And then as soon as I criticize them I'm called a flip flopper. It's about the big picture, not year to year records. That's what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. Never a plan, just a new "savior" every year to save us.