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Coaching in this league may just have passed Larry bye, bye..
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eymyel827
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4/5/2006  1:09 AM
admin should lock this thread up. this is pointless. knicks are losing. fans are at each other. holfresh i respect ur opinions, but my point is its not all the coach's fault. Larry's coaching ....i dont see him giving up at all and the team's not listening. remember its the players who are playing the game. lets get rid of the players that cant be in this system and hope that we start winning how bout that?
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BlueSeats
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4/5/2006  1:10 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Dude, I keep saying this, stop making excuses for LB...Nate is not a D league player...Nate has maturity issues...That is something handled off the court...Is not a punishment issue, but he need someone to tell him how to channel his energy...If anything I think you Larry guys would just love the effort given by Nate on a nightly basis...He is still one of the few guys who still care about playing...What good does the D-League serve with 8 games left int the season...This is purely larry just making a point...And how long does it take the rest of you guys to just fall in line....Nate has played better than Green and Bynum this season...nate has shown he belongs in this league..Enough so that he has earn the respect of opposing players who seek him out to give him advice to keep his head up....It just a damn shame you guys just can't see the forest from the trees.. You keep defending LB b tch arse moves without even understanding his motives...

For the record, the article said Brown considered sending him down over a month ago, not now. It also said he was reprimanded for shooting spit balls on the bus and showboating in a loss.

It's not exactly cruel and unusual punishment we're talking about.

Also, remember that preseason report dj posted a few days ago that said Nate was ADD and had a mouth that even then was getting him in trouble? Nate is said to talk and dance constatly. I don't know about anyone else but people like that can drive me nuts. I mean there's a time and a place but sometimes one needs to relax and/or concentrate and not constantly be drawn into Nate's world.

Meanwhile Nate has been playing and starting of late.

Larry and fans LOVE Nate's energy, but he needs to channel it positively.



oohah
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4/5/2006  1:14 AM
3 points difference in points scored, 9 point difference in points given up.

the difference in that team is Nate is not coaching it. they played with more discipline under Nate.

it seems thats all Lb is asking here. take care of the ball. show some pride and effort on the defensive end.

I would say that is an oversimplification of both situations, but it isn't entirely untrue. If you look at both team's rosters from this and last year, you will see a big change in the roster personell and in certain player's playing time.

But you do consider Nate's absence to be the deciding factor. Isn't that giving a lot of the credit for wins and losses to the coach? Doesn't that make LB accountable too? Or does the blame fall solely on the players and Isiah?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Allanfan20
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4/5/2006  1:35 AM
Every single molecule involved with the Knicks is accountable, and that includes we the fans for having NO patience and believing all the media crap, and the media for making up the crap.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
oohah
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4/5/2006  1:39 AM
Every single molecule involved with the Knicks is accountable, and that includes we the fans for having NO patience and believing all the media crap, and the media for making up the crap.

NO! I refuse to be held accountable! I did everything perfect and the rest of you fouled everything up, with the help of Isiah Brownbury.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
OldFan
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4/5/2006  6:39 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:

Nate being told to cut out the bafoonary has reduced him to a slug overnight says alot about the character of Nate...

Isiah and his players stinks



Character, Larry wants to send him to the NBDL for punishment...What does that tell you about Larry's Character?


But isn't that what the NBDL is for?



Nate does not need work on his game in that manner....The guys drop 34 points against AI a couple of games ago and then you want to send him down?...

Not only that, what does the rest of the team think about their leader..How petty can this man be... I swear Larry's behavior is sometimes that of a catholic high school girl....




The knicks got killed the night Nate scored 34. The man he was guarding scored 47. When your team is getting beat badly and your man is eating you alive - you don't show boat. If you're not going to try to fix this when Nate is a rookie when are you going to to do it?



joec32033
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4/5/2006  7:39 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by nixluva:

Look I don't think that Nate deserves the sort of treatment that LB has given him. Nate was making fine progress and it really showed back around the time of the 6 game win streak, just before Steph got hurt. With a starting lineup of of Steph, Nate, Lee, AD and Curry, the team seemed to hit a nice groove. If you go back and look at what Steph and Nate were doing it was pretty impressive. Nate had some down games, but overall his play was VERY good. What begs to be asked is why LB didn't stick with what he was doing? We knew Steph was going to be less than himself for a while, but that didn't mean that LB should totally change what was beginning to work. The team struggled to find any chemistry all year, mostly due to LB's poor use of the roster and then when they finally gel, he starts messing around again.

I think Nate has some growing up to do, but there has to be a better way of USING that energy and bravado Nate has to our advantage. LB is too interested in forcing guys to be what he wants them to be, rather than making use of a players strengths and minimizing weaknesses. He should simply find a way to calm Nate down when he gets too high. There has to be someone on the team, maybe a coach, who can pull him aside and talk to him and get him refocused, but in a positive way, that doesn't cut his balls off. LB has really botched things up this year and I can run down a laundry list of things he failed to do right this year. Yeah the players are flawed, but it was his JOB to minimize that and he made it worse. This is nowhere near the worst roster i've ever seen this franchise have and so I can't blame the players. I have to blame LB, who's supposed to be a coaching god. This is the worst season I can remember in a LOOOOOOONG time.


What the HELL has Nate done to deserve ANYTHING in this league yet? He won a dunk contest. Woohoo. He is a freaking rookie- a rookie who has fought not one but TWO VETERAN teammates this season and got in trouble for shooting freaking spitballs on the team bus. Give me a break. This whole Nate to the D-league thing is getting SO overblown. Christ now LB doesn't have the right to send a rookie to the D-league. WHich BTW, as mentioned before, was EXACTLY what the league is for!

Tell Gerald Green and Martell Webster and that rook center in Cleveland about not fair. I think Bynum was there too. They were all sent to the D-league. Martell was a lotto pick. Green was a projected superstar and fell to 18. ALL these guys went ahead of Nate.

I like Nate alot and I would love to see him develop to a great NBA starter. That requires his game to develop. Develop as in DEVELOPmental league.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-05-2006 12:09 AM]



Dude, I keep saying this, stop making excuses for LB...Nate is not a D league player...Nate has maturity issues...That is something handled off the court...Is not a punishment issue, but he need someone to tell him how to channel his energy...If anything I think you Larry guys would just love the effort given by Nate on a nightly basis...He is still one of the few guys who still care about playing...What good does the D-League serve with 8 games left int the season...This is purely larry just making a point...And how long does it take the rest of you guys to just fall in line....Nate has played better than Green and Bynum this season...nate has shown he belongs in this league..Enough so that he has earn the respect of opposing players who seek him out to give him advice to keep his head up....It just a damn shame you guys just can't see the forest from the trees.. You keep defending LB b tch arse moves without even understanding his motives...


Since you only choose to actually read and respond to maybe half (if that) of my point, I'll keep this post brief. Can you PLEASE tell me what the sweeping general stereotype is for D-League player?

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-05-2006 07:40 AM]
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Bippity10
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4/5/2006  8:23 AM
Has anyone here that has coached before ever tried playing uptempo ball with a team that turns it over 20 times a night? And if so, how did you do?
I just hope that people will like me
Swishfm3
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4/5/2006  8:39 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:

Nate being told to cut out the bafoonary has reduced him to a slug overnight says alot about the character of Nate...

Isiah and his players stinks



Character, Larry wants to send him to the NBDL for punishment...What does that tell you about Larry's Character?


But isn't that what the NBDL is for?



Nate does not need work on his game in that manner....The guys drop 34 points against AI a couple of games ago and then you want to send him down?...

Not only that, what does the rest of the team think about their leader..How petty can this man be... I swear Larry's behavior is sometimes that of a catholic high school girl....




The knicks got killed the night Nate scored 34. The man he was guarding scored 47. When your team is getting beat badly and your man is eating you alive - you don't show boat. If you're not going to try to fix this when Nate is a rookie when are you going to to do it?


If I'm a 20 y/o rookie who just scored a career 34 points in a NBA game against one of the games best one on one defenders in a meaningless, pathetic game.....

I would show boat a little also. I don't know...maybe its the NY in me.


man...you guys are never happy. first Marbury's body language is bringing everyone down...now Nate's "showboating" is bringing Brown down, LMAO...

If they laugh together..then their not taking this season serious and are the wrong type of players
If they argue with each other...then they hate each other and are the wrong type of players...
Swishfm3
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4/5/2006  8:43 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Has anyone here that has coached before ever tried playing uptempo ball with a team that turns it over 20 times a night? And if so, how did you do?

I've tried it...and AS A COACH...realized, after X amount of games, it didn't work with the group of guys I had and had to come up with a new game plan.

cuz thats what a COACH does...he adapts to the players he has.
Nalod
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4/5/2006  9:01 AM
Posted by holfresh:



How do you guys really defend Larry without question is beyond me...So now once again, Larry teamed up with Frank Isola to put out apiece about Nate...You guys don't see a pattern here do you...When larry wants to trash one of his players in the press...Oh look, it's Isola again...wow, he gets all the inside stuff....One thing Bip, if you are out there, how does Larry take a rook and beat him down in the press??
How do you expalin this???


Its not with out question. But I for one lean towards Larry for all the 100 reasons we discussed previously.

Home town starts is not a bad thing. It was suppose to build unity, give the player somthing to look forward to playing in front of family. WE have no set lineup, so why the hell not.

Nate, your taking too much from the media and thinking it really crushes the kids.

Look at how it works. Larry tells them 100 times in practic and in the game to do somthing. For example, stop showboating. Then, Nate has a big game. Really, lets give the coach credit here, his rookies (and we all thought larry does not play rookies!) goes for 34 points and we lose. No big deal. You have young nutjob player whom your trying over and over all year long to take it down a notch and stop being a clown, and over and over he does not listen.

Press meets after each game and thinks too that getting lit up for 47 while losing is no cause to act like a rodeo clown is pretty obvious. Boom, "what do you think larry?" what do you think Holfresh, you think just cause nate is so cute and funny its ok? You think thats cool for 30 college games but your now a paid professional and suppose to be a stone cold killer and crush your apponent? You think the distractions of trying to get "happy" is helping the team? Doesn't look that way to me. Looks like the team does not respond to anything. Not Larry, not Dolan, not HERB, not Phil Ford, and certainly not the rodeo clown cheerleader!

Ever look at when a player is taking (seems all too frequent doesn't it?) nate aside and talking to him and he looks like he is not paying attention?

I like nate, and he is playing, so whats the beef?

Frye was not benched, frye hit the rookie wall and was getting beat on defense and picking up too many fouls. His game seemed to fall when Antonio left.

IN all our rookies exceeded most expectations regarding playing time and progress.

Larry's coaching MUST be questioned given the record. No doubt about it. But I would never consider firing him. It would be one thing to take a playoff team and destroy them, but your talking about a losing team that was also gutted and added many unproven parts right before the season started. Win 20, win 30, no difference. Give bulls the 10th pick, or the first, its still the same.

If this is a transition year for trades and weeding out the bad, so be it.

But you have a coach whom teaches and coaches all game long, and you have a coach that is known for being a teacher. YOu have players known for being difficult to coach and have individual agendas.

Take a step back, there are few coaches, if any whom could have righted the ship. Cave in to them and perhaps win a few games more, but not move in the right direction. Be it credibilty, or the massive contract (born from cred), we have a coach willing to step up and not take any crap. ANd our players had an opportunity to decide what kind of player they are, or are not willing to be.

joec32033
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4/5/2006  9:18 AM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by Bippity10:

Has anyone here that has coached before ever tried playing uptempo ball with a team that turns it over 20 times a night? And if so, how did you do?

I've tried it...and AS A COACH...realized, after X amount of games, it didn't work with the group of guys I had and had to come up with a new game plan.

cuz thats what a COACH does...he adapts to the players he has.

Problem was we tried to run(which some of the players wanted) and we still lost....we played our best 6 games of the season playing a half court set. I have to say that alot of this has to do with effort. I don't buy into the body language thing a whole lot from timeouts and stuff like that but if a players body language while playing show he isn't trying, that is different. Especially from your leader. The News said (I think it was the Malik and Q article posted before, but it may have been a very similiar article) that some players are ignoring Brown in timeouts and just not playing. I am not saying for certain, but I would logically deduct, the guys ignoring Brown are the guys ho feel they should be starting/or the guys that feel they will be playing no matter what next year. I personally feel Brown's rotation should be right now...

Butler
Lee(Frye would possibly be starting if he wasn't hurt)
Rose
Q1(or Q2 if Q1 is hurt)
Craw

With Marbury(if he does come back), Francis, Curry, all off the bench. Now it is not just about coaching on this team, this is now about establishing control.

~You can't run from who you are.~
Swishfm3
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4/5/2006  9:37 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by Bippity10:

Has anyone here that has coached before ever tried playing uptempo ball with a team that turns it over 20 times a night? And if so, how did you do?

I've tried it...and AS A COACH...realized, after X amount of games, it didn't work with the group of guys I had and had to come up with a new game plan.

cuz thats what a COACH does...he adapts to the players he has.

Problem was we tried to run(which some of the players wanted) and we still lost....we played our best 6 games of the season playing a half court set. I have to say that alot of this has to do with effort. I don't buy into the body language thing a whole lot from timeouts and stuff like that but if a players body language while playing show he isn't trying, that is different. Especially from your leader. The News said (I think it was the Malik and Q article posted before, but it may have been a very similiar article) that some players are ignoring Brown in timeouts and just not playing. I am not saying for certain, but I would logically deduct, the guys ignoring Brown are the guys ho feel they should be starting/or the guys that feel they will be playing no matter what next year. I personally feel Brown's rotation should be right now...

Butler
Lee(Frye would possibly be starting if he wasn't hurt)
Rose
Q1(or Q2 if Q1 is hurt)
Craw

With Marbury(if he does come back), Francis, Curry, all off the bench. Now it is not just about coaching on this team, this is now about establishing control.


I 100% percent with your this post!!! I've said the same thing before....there is enough talent on this team. If Brown is hell bent in installing his way of playing, then just play the guys that buy into now and everyone falls in where they fit in.

forget about who I.Thomas needs to bring.....forget who gets paid the most....forget seniority.....13 players on this team and any one of them is capable of being a major player in this league, imo.
joec32033
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4/5/2006  9:48 AM
That is the only problem I have with Larry's coaching. There is enough young talent on this team, there isn't enough mental talent.

Steph seems to have taken Nate under his wing (not a good thing-Nate taking only one shot is EERILY reminiscent of Steph-this is EXACTLY what I was afraid of Steph rubbing off on the rookies.

Steph is probably the mentally weakest I've seen on a LONG time...and Nate seems to want to follow in his footsteps based on his judgement last game. Francis is there. Curry is looking like he just wants to get by on size. The mentally toughest player on this team is the guy we ALL thought wwas breaking at the middle of the season-Jamal.
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tkf
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4/5/2006  10:25 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by Bippity10:

Has anyone here that has coached before ever tried playing uptempo ball with a team that turns it over 20 times a night? And if so, how did you do?

I've tried it...and AS A COACH...realized, after X amount of games, it didn't work with the group of guys I had and had to come up with a new game plan.

cuz thats what a COACH does...he adapts to the players he has.

Problem was we tried to run(which some of the players wanted) and we still lost....we played our best 6 games of the season playing a half court set. I have to say that alot of this has to do with effort. I don't buy into the body language thing a whole lot from timeouts and stuff like that but if a players body language while playing show he isn't trying, that is different. Especially from your leader. The News said (I think it was the Malik and Q article posted before, but it may have been a very similiar article) that some players are ignoring Brown in timeouts and just not playing. I am not saying for certain, but I would logically deduct, the guys ignoring Brown are the guys ho feel they should be starting/or the guys that feel they will be playing no matter what next year. I personally feel Brown's rotation should be right now...

Butler
Lee(Frye would possibly be starting if he wasn't hurt)
Rose
Q1(or Q2 if Q1 is hurt)
Craw

With Marbury(if he does come back), Francis, Curry, all off the bench. Now it is not just about coaching on this team, this is now about establishing control.


joe, I created a thread suggesting a similar lineup. I said sit curry, he must understand that the knicks invested a lot in him, and he has to earn it with hard smart play, it won't be given to him. Butler is not the most athletic, but he is smart, can pass, has great hands and a nice touch. I see guys like Brad miller who are effective starting at center, Butler can play minutes there.... Yesterday, there was a play where Q woods gave him the pass and didn't cut, after the play, you could see butler go to Q woods and say, I wanted you to cut baseline, he seems to understand what to do out there, and that is much improvement, to me he has improved more than curry..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
joec32033
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4/5/2006  10:37 AM
Bro I suggested that in a thread, and holfresh said I didn't know the game and I needed to educate myself in the sport of basketball. So I make this response at the risk of being called uneducated again.

I really like Butler either at C or at PF and I think that he is a better fit next to both Curry and Frye individually.
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4/5/2006  10:44 AM
Posted by oohah:
3 points difference in points scored, 9 point difference in points given up.

the difference in that team is Nate is not coaching it. they played with more discipline under Nate.

it seems thats all Lb is asking here. take care of the ball. show some pride and effort on the defensive end.

I would say that is an oversimplification of both situations, but it isn't entirely untrue. If you look at both team's rosters from this and last year, you will see a big change in the roster personell and in certain player's playing time.

But you do consider Nate's absence to be the deciding factor. Isn't that giving a lot of the credit for wins and losses to the coach? Doesn't that make LB accountable too? Or does the blame fall solely on the players and Isiah?

oohah

it took Nate how many years to get to that point (50 wins, division crown) after preening and weeding that roster? that team was totaaly remade from the one Westphal had.

they lost Daniels and James, the talent core of that team was still very much intact. The accountability left with Nate.

I believe once Brown gets guys in here who'll listen to him, we'll see a much different ballclub out there
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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4/5/2006  10:50 AM
Posted by joec32033:

Bro I suggested that in a thread, and holfresh said I didn't know the game and I needed to educate myself in the sport of basketball. So I make this response at the risk of being called uneducated again.

I really like Butler either at C or at PF and I think that he is a better fit next to both Curry and Frye individually.



He I come again Joe...Does it matter that this guys is possibly displays tghe poorest D for a center in the NBA?....


If he can't D up centers in this league, how in the world is this guy going to D-up power forwards in the league...Do you really see this guy standing in front of KG 10 to 15 feet from the basket?



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-05-2006 10:52 AM]
joec32033
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4/5/2006  11:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:

Bro I suggested that in a thread, and holfresh said I didn't know the game and I needed to educate myself in the sport of basketball. So I make this response at the risk of being called uneducated again.

I really like Butler either at C or at PF and I think that he is a better fit next to both Curry and Frye individually.




He I come again Joe...Does it matter that this guys is possibly displays tghe poorest D for a center in the NBA?....


If he can't D up centers in this league, how in the world is this guy going to D-up power forwards in the league...Do you really see this guy standing in front of KG 10 to 15 feet from the basket?



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-05-2006 10:52 AM]

And exactly how does that differ from Curry? And once again the argument about D'ing up the best players in the league. Let me let you in on a little secret, everyone has problems with KG, who plays SF/PF, and I am talking about Butler plaing center. The question shouldn't be can Butler defend Shaq, KG, or whoever.....those are guys the best players in the league and everyone has problems with them. The average center(Center is by far the WEAKEST position in the NBA) in the NBA averages 7.6 points, 5.6 rebounds, and 0.9 blocks. That is Olowakandi and Mark Blount. Can Butler compete with these guys-absolutely yes.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-05-2006 11:09 AM]
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holfresh
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4/5/2006  11:24 AM

Dude I 'm not going to argue about why Butler shouldn't be startting...

Coaching in this league may just have passed Larry bye, bye..

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