Torre took them as far as Manny could carry them. I'm just happy they destroyed the scrubs. That made my year!

And don't get me wrong. I'm not all giddy over Cashman, but he does need that Stienbrenner hand to help him out.

One thing we can count on that no one else has in baseball. 'The greatest tradition that sports has ever witnessed'! So important for the kids to win that first game in the new Yankee Stadium.

Isn't it great though and have any of you noticed this? It's being called Yankee Stadium, when all other new parks are basically taking 'corporate names'. Sorry Mets fans.

Posted by 4949:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

hindsight is always 20/20... i know u were in favor of that trade going down as was i, but it didn't happen & i understand why the Yankees hedged on making the deal... at the time both Hughes & Kennedy showed huge promise... sometimes u make good trades, sometimes u don't, & sometimes u pass up good trades... obviously we coulda benefitted greatly by trading for Johan... i was willing to give up Cano & Wang for him at 1 point, that's how much i wanted the guy... at some point u gotta move on & focus on what we need to do in the future.

Well I was only responding to DJ; I wasn't bringing up the topic. That said, I'll move on when the Yankees show real improvement or hire a new GM

Do you suppose it wasn't the GM's fault after all, since Torre lost in the second round with the Dodgers?

Not sure what you're saying? That it was somehow Torre's fault?

Well, a lot of people say Cashman has to go, because of Yankee woes and that Joe was a mistake to let go. Well, with Joe not making it to the w.s., maybe Cashman wasn't all that bad after all, you think? And we are' kind of in a rebuilding mode right now to and Giardi's first season. Not bad really. At least they played well above .500 and had a good run at the end and at least we know why' we didn't make it, so I don't think the entire blame should go on Cashman. That's what I mean and I'm just trying to look at it fairly.

anyone who thinks Cashman is solely responsible & accountable for all the personnel decisions this franchise had made since he took over doesn't follow this franchise very closely, i'll tell u that much.

& i couldn't agree w/u more... if Hank & Hal have even half the business savvy as George had this franchise is in good hands for the foreseeable future.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-27-2008 8:25 PM]

Posted by 4949:

Torre took them as far as Manny could carry them.

thank you.

It's simple. Selecting a manager is under the power of the GM unless the owner takes that power away from you. As to what I really think: I always assume the GM is doing the hiring unless someone shows me very strong evidence to the contrary.

Posted by TMS:

think what u want... Joe G was hired by the Steinbrenner family just like Torre was hired by George just like Billy Martin was hired, fired, hired & fired by George, just like Dallas Greene, Bucky Dent, Dick Howser, Yogi Berra, Lou Piniella, Stump Merrill, Buck Showalter & on down the list were all hired by George... nothing on that level gets done w/o the Boss' say & any GM in baseball is well aware of this when they take this job to begin with... this is why George has been & still is the best owner in sports... that must mean every GM we've ever had since '73 has had an emasculation fetish too, including Bob Watson & Gene Michael, those guys u give all the credit to for building those dynasty teams of the 90s.

Couldn't agree more.

sources? dude, r u kidding me? how closely do u follow this team to have to ask me to clarify whether or not George has been the one pulling the strings behind GM & managerial hirings since he took over, plus his fair share of roster moves as well? u want a source, ask any Yankee fan on this or any other forum, on the street or call in to any sports radio show & ask them urself who was responsible for the hiring of managers since George bought the franchise & they'll tell u the same thing i did... dude, u kill me w/ur "give me a source or i won't believe you" fallbacks whenever we have these discussions.

& i don't agree w/ur secondary statement... there are plenty of fans out there like myself who give George Steinbrenner a ton of credit for the success he's helped bring to this franchise... & fans get on Cashman's case all the time for trades & FA signings they disagree with... i've bashed him plenty for some myself... & who are all these Yankee fans who think finishing in 3rd place is an acceptable outcome to the season?

Posted by TMS:

think what u want... Joe G was hired by the Steinbrenner family just like Torre was hired by George just like Billy Martin was hired, fired, hired & fired by George, just like Dallas Greene, Bucky Dent, Dick Howser, Yogi Berra, Lou Piniella, Stump Merrill, Buck Showalter & on down the list were all hired by George... nothing on that level gets done w/o the Boss' say & any GM in baseball is well aware of this when they take this job to begin with... this is why George has been & still is the best owner in sports... that must mean every GM we've ever had since '73 has had an emasculation fetish too, including Bob Watson & Gene Michael, those guys u give all the credit to for building those dynasty teams of the 90s.

Really was amazing how the Yankees even won anything with that famed 'revolving door' era.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

think what u want... Joe G was hired by the Steinbrenner family just like Torre was hired by George just like Billy Martin was hired, fired, hired & fired by George, just like Dallas Greene, Bucky Dent, Dick Howser, Yogi Berra, Lou Piniella, Stump Merrill, Buck Showalter & on down the list were all hired by George... nothing on that level gets done w/o the Boss' say & any GM in baseball is well aware of this when they take this job to begin with... this is why George has been & still is the best owner in sports... that must mean every GM we've ever had since '73 has had an emasculation fetish too, including Bob Watson & Gene Michael, those guys u give all the credit to for building those dynasty teams of the 90s.

Emasculation fetish? What's that?
Can you show me the sources to your info on the Joe G hiring?
Not sure how the conversation devolved into this anyway. I think hiring Joe G was the least of the Yankees' recent mistakes. It seems though like many fans have a simple but ridiculuous formula:

If a decision turned out badly, then it was the Steinbrenners' decision.
If a decision turned out well, then it was Cashman.

I don't admire Cashman's GM skills but I do admire his ability as a magician. He got the Steinbrenners and many fans fooled into thinking 1st round losses, and now 3rd place finishes, are just fine.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-28-2008 6:28 PM]

It's debatable. Anyone who could have brought Giambi and A-Rod aboard would have thought they had a big winner, but it just hasn't turned out that way. So that can't be Cashman (or George or Hanks) fault. It is what it is.

We Yankees fans have been through some of the biggest moves and horrible moves known to baseball fans everywhere. But some how, eventually you and I and everyone knows that they are going to be knocking on the door again. It's just a matter of time.

Posted by TMS:

sources? dude, r u kidding me? how closely do u follow this team to have to ask me to clarify whether or not George has been the one pulling the strings behind GM & managerial hirings since he took over, plus his fair share of roster moves as well? u want a source, ask any Yankee fan on this or any other forum, on the street or call in to any sports radio show & ask them urself who was responsible for the hiring of managers since George bought the franchise & they'll tell u the same thing i did... dude, u kill me w/ur "give me a source or i won't believe you" fallbacks whenever we have these discussions.

& i don't agree w/ur secondary statement... there are plenty of fans out there like myself who give George Steinbrenner a ton of credit for the success he's helped bring to this franchise... & fans get on Cashman's case all the time for trades & FA signings they disagree with... i've bashed him plenty for some myself... & who are all these Yankee fans who think finishing in 3rd place is an acceptable outcome to the season?

So no official sources or you too lazy to post them even though I always find my sources for you.
As to the bold part: I'm refering specifically to any fans who are happy to have the guy with several 1st round exits and then a 3rd place finish return as our GM.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-28-2008 8:33 PM]

I do follow the team and have never seen evidence for your opinions but you're obviously really pissy and there's no point in continuing this.

Posted by TMS:

that's up to u if u don't wanna respond... when u come out w/comments like it's the GM's responsibility to hire managers & sign players & someone tries to explain to u how the Yankees' situation is not like every other situation in sports & u completely dismiss what they're telling u until they provide u printed source, it doesn't leave much room for debate.

I didn't dismiss what you told me. I took it seriously and asked for the evidence for it. If I dismissed it, I would have just ignored it and not cared about it. The claim is important enough that I'm interested in the evidence for it, but I treat it merely as a hypothesis until I see support for it.