Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:lets be clear, KAT on his next deal at 32 years of age isn't getting anywhere near $60m per year.

He shouldn’t. And he should be okay taking less because he’s got all the money in the world already and he’s in the location he wants to be. He has to be aware of how he will be judged in NY based on making the max vs taking a paycut. It’s the difference between Brunson and Melo in terms of how they are/ were treated here. I think the Knicks have built a culture here where we expect players to give a little back and help the greater good.

From FO perspective, this will be another reason to keep KAT over Giannis: the ability to negotiate and get to a point where their NYKnicks guy will feel comfortable enough taking on that less than max contract. Not sure if Giannis would have that chance without being a part of the organization for a while but who knows.

I can see +/- for Giannis and for no Giannis.

I do wonder if Kat can maintain a bit of the discipline he's shown in last 10 games or so (interesting that coincides with Giannis noise) but Kat/Giannis offer such varied games it's difficult to understand how Giannis might impact things either way because he would impact things.

Giannis has lots of mileage but at same time Kat's movement and body worry me too long term.

Giannis and Turner together that's interesting. Also still hopeful maybe Donte could come back but now wonder if that works with Deuce/Clarkson in tow.

ramtour420 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I'm going to ride with whatever decision this front office goes with.

I can see +/- for Giannis and for no Giannis.

I do wonder if Kat can maintain a bit of the discipline he's shown in last 10 games or so (interesting that coincides with Giannis noise) but Kat/Giannis offer such varied games it's difficult to understand how Giannis might impact things either way because he would impact things.

Giannis has lots of mileage but at same time Kat's movement and body worry me too long term.

Giannis and Turner together that's interesting. Also still hopeful maybe Donte could come back but now wonder if that works with Deuce/Clarkson in tow.

KAT alone gives us more rebounds than those two together. Maybe the numbers don't exactly support the eye test..but it sure seems like it

So, the thing I hate is that the math works if they traded KAT and OG for Giannis and Turner, they could turn and take back DDV from Minnie in the same trade without any actual requirement of Minnie taking back salary. So any player with a lower salary than DDV or draft compensation alone works. Let’s send Dadiet for giggles.

Brunson / Kolek / Clarkson
DDV / Deuce
Bridges / Hart
Giannis / Yabu / Diawara
Turner / Robinson

I mean. OG is my favorite player on this team so I hate this. But the math works. Makes more sense than the theory of trading Robinson for DDV which makes no math or positional need sense.

Move Yabu for a player with more meaningful minutes and you have a shot.

I’m not approving this as a good deal, just one that makes sense mathematically and theoretically improves the Knicks.

Cons. -
No more OG. Love that dude.
Less rebounding.
Giannis has prima donna tendencies
Usage problems between Brunson and Giannis. One will lose stats based on usage.
Likely will cost all remains draft rights - not much left anyway

Pros -
Plus defense at 4 positions instead of 3 with strong point of attack, help and paint defense.
Plus 3 point at 4 positions.
Add a perennial MVP candidate with health issues
Giannis has a magic whistle
Get DDV back.

I dunno. I think I hate it.

gradyandrew wrote:Thing is Milwaukee's draft situation isn't as dire as I thought. They have swaps with teams that are even worse, Portland and NOP, who get to play in the varsity conference. So Milwaukee needs some picks but also upside players.

To me, there's only one team that makes sense, and I'm sure they were thinking about it in summer 2024 when they decided to offer a certain NY center a ginormous contract of about 10 million more per year when they did it.

Giannis for IHart, A Wiggins and Isaih Joe works. OKC can toss 4 draft picks on top to sweeten it. Giannis gets to play for chapmpionships and OKC gets a guy faster than Jokic, stronger than Sengun, and meaner than Wemby.

OKC loses some depth, but with Ajay Mitchell coming on, they can afford it. They are still ridiculously deep and will have draft picks to add to the depth.

The luxury tax bill in the future will be huge but Jaylin Williams missing out on the supermax because of injury saves them a bunch going forward.

As long as IHart is the starting center, they are at risk against teams with All NBA bigs.

10 million more than they needed to

Philc1 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:What are we now? Like 5th on offense and 14th on D. I am afraid the offense would take a hit and push us out of top 10. While the d would not improve enough to compensate. The way this team is constructed we just need to move up like four spots on D to be top ten in both categories.

Sounds like the bucks just want way too much for Giannis. KAT + OG or Mikal +
deuce plus more. F that I like the roster we have now.

I agree with you.

Best situation for Knicks is for KAT to play smarter and realize his full potential and for Brunson to continue to be an average defender. Adding a third “lengthy” wing like Mikal and OG would be a real victory.

Toumani Camara is having a bit of an off year. Curious if there is a buy-low situation there.

ramtour420 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:What are we now? Like 5th on offense and 14th on D. I am afraid the offense would take a hit and push us out of top 10. While the d would not improve enough to compensate. The way this team is constructed we just need to move up like four spots on D to be top ten in both categories.

Oops. I looked up last year's stats because reading comprehension. Lemme fix it up real quick
2025-26 Knick so far :
Offense #2
Defense #11

So just need to move up one spot on D to be top ten in both categories

Isn't there a 3 way tie?

ramtour420 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I'm going to ride with whatever decision this front office goes with.

I can see +/- for Giannis and for no Giannis.

I do wonder if Kat can maintain a bit of the discipline he's shown in last 10 games or so (interesting that coincides with Giannis noise) but Kat/Giannis offer such varied games it's difficult to understand how Giannis might impact things either way because he would impact things.

Giannis has lots of mileage but at same time Kat's movement and body worry me too long term.

Giannis and Turner together that's interesting. Also still hopeful maybe Donte could come back but now wonder if that works with Deuce/Clarkson in tow.

KAT alone gives us more rebounds than those two together. Maybe the numbers don't exactly support the eye test..but it sure seems like it

Greek has 10 straight years of +10 rebounds and a high of 13.7.

Kat has only gone over 10 in 2 of last 5 years with a high of 12.8.

Turner is weak at 6.5 for his career but Greek/Turner about 16.5 vs Kat ~11.0 for his career.

I'd say both Turner/Greek considered better defenders than Kat but not arguing for this trade --- just saying if Kat were going out Turner is someone Knicks have coveted in the past.

LivingLegend wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:I'm going to ride with whatever decision this front office goes with.

I can see +/- for Giannis and for no Giannis.

I do wonder if Kat can maintain a bit of the discipline he's shown in last 10 games or so (interesting that coincides with Giannis noise) but Kat/Giannis offer such varied games it's difficult to understand how Giannis might impact things either way because he would impact things.

Giannis has lots of mileage but at same time Kat's movement and body worry me too long term.

Giannis and Turner together that's interesting. Also still hopeful maybe Donte could come back but now wonder if that works with Deuce/Clarkson in tow.

KAT alone gives us more rebounds than those two together. Maybe the numbers don't exactly support the eye test..but it sure seems like it

Greek has 10 straight years of +10 rebounds and a high of 13.7.

Kat has only gone over 10 in 2 of last 5 years with a high of 12.8.

Turner is weak at 6.5 for his career but Greek/Turner about 16.5 vs Kat ~11.0 for his career.

I'd say both Turner/Greek considered better defenders than Kat but not arguing for this trade --- just saying if Kat were going out Turner is someone Knicks have coveted in the past.

Giannis brings a chip and great stats. No guarantee going forward. KAT returned to some of his best numbers last year as a knick and brown is working things thru. I love his quick outlet passes as a defensive rebounder.

Giannis has no doubt been the superior player and had a more storied career. For some its about the price to bring him here and perhaps we take KAT for granted and harp on his weaknesses more than what he does bring?

https://www.sports-reference.com/stathead/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=townska01&player_id2=antetgi01

We no doubt can tilt the convo to support or advocate our opinions with limited stats. Here is a link were I did a head to head comparison. yes, Giannis has had quite the career but what of the future? Cause thats the only thing that matters and we just don't know if he can hold up. Same for KAT of course. My question is a "freak" at age 30 vs. KAT who was never a freak might have a different trajectory.