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VDesai wrote:2/60 is justifiable but we absolutely cannot give him 4/156 based on his current level of play.

I wish they put out cap % numbers for that particular season cap instead of raw $ cause they don't always equate.

2/60 is somewhere in the $30M per and that does not feel like it is anywhere in the range of what he will get unless it is a massive discount like Brunson just took. 2/60 is the Jordan Poole from 3 years ago territory that GS gave him as a rookie extension before the massive TV contact kicked in. Essentially, you are saying that Mikal does not deserve a raise over his incredibly team friendly contract that he is on for another year right now.

I don't think that checks out. Have to adjust expectations for the new TV deal. He will get close to OG as a starting point IMHO.

Here is another way to look at it. Of the players who make above the MLE (~$13M), there are about 120 guys. A start point of $30M means you think Mikal is in the bottom half of the guys who make more than the MLE. I don't think that equates.

Mikal will get 4/156 IMHO, easily. OG got 4/165 with player option for 5th year.

Check out the comparisons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

Philc1 wrote:Ahem cough

He has played below expectations. One great moment a month doesn't ease any worries of the inconsistency and dissapearing act. If we bumped it every time he made zero to negative impact we would have more bumps.

For the long term health of the franchise and its viability as a contender, these final 17 games and the playoffs matter a lot. Yes its season one, but there is a 65 game sample thats mostly mixed if you are being kind and we have an extension decision to make. It is quite honestly one of the most difficult question to answer and anything this uncertain breeds anxiety.

But happy to see him have an effort like last night in the face of extra scrutiny given he was in the press for calling out the coach on minutes. He is capable of these big moments and its not just on him to make him fit better.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Thibs needs to separate him from JB but playing bridges more with second unit. Bridges is more impactful when he’s the center of the offense. Learn from the big 3 in Miami. We have a big 4 which is even more difficult for Thibs and company to manage.

I see it differently. Brunson has got to run the offense better. He is the one with the ball in his hands and the decision maker of what they gonna do.

IMO this is a growth year for Brunson. Some very very good things are happening. One that may not be as strong is running the offense, especially when he is not on. He is acing the late game stuff.

For me, this is the 2020 Randle year where you put the ball in his hands and see what he can do. Win some, lose some but learn a lot. Feels like the same process for Brunson. Win some, lose some as he feels his way through it.

I wouldn’t say you see it different. My “and company” comment was directed at JB. I think it’s more than a 1 person adjustment and bridges hitting the game winner only helps build more synergy. But Thibs, JB and even Mikal have to adjust. I think sometimes it’s easier for the coach to spark this adjustment while JB learns how to run the offense better and Mikal learns how to impact winning. But the coach is responsible for putting the players together during his rotations. But yes JB will play a part as the captain and best player on the team.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Ahem cough

He has played below expectations. One great moment a month doesn't ease any worries of the inconsistency and dissapearing act. If we bumped it every time he made zero to negative impact we would have more bumps.

For the long term health of the franchise and its viability as a contender, these final 17 games and the playoffs matter a lot. Yes its season one, but there is a 65 game sample thats mostly mixed if you are being kind and we have an extension decision to make. It is quite honestly one of the most difficult question to answer and anything this uncertain breeds anxiety.

But happy to see him have an effort like last night in the face of extra scrutiny given he was in the press for calling out the coach on minutes. He is capable of these big moments and its not just on him to make him fit better.

Offensively, defensively or both?

A little bit of both. He has been very inconsistent on both ends. Much better lately on the defensive end after a very underwhelming start. Offense he his numbers are fine, but on volatile impact. I think we assume he would be automatic on corner 3s and do more off the bounce. He has been better than anyone can imagine on middy fadeaways. Shocking how little he draws fouls.

I think we assume we would get some creation.

I hope these games unlock more of what he can do when his number gets called.

blkexec wrote:Thibs needs to separate him from JB but playing bridges more with second unit. Bridges is more impactful when he’s the center of the offense. Learn from the big 3 in Miami. We have a big 4 which is even more difficult for Thibs and company to manage.

I have been saying this for a while, against the elite teams we need to split the starting 5 up after a few minutes into the 1st quarter. I would say something like JB/Deuce/Hart/OG/Mitch and Payne/Shamet/Mikal/Towns/Precious should be our two teams to split quarters.

Philc1 wrote:

VDesai wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Ahem cough

He has played below expectations. One great moment a month doesn't ease any worries of the inconsistency and dissapearing act. If we bumped it every time he made zero to negative impact we would have more bumps.

For the long term health of the franchise and its viability as a contender, these final 17 games and the playoffs matter a lot. Yes its season one, but there is a 65 game sample thats mostly mixed if you are being kind and we have an extension decision to make. It is quite honestly one of the most difficult question to answer and anything this uncertain breeds anxiety.

But happy to see him have an effort like last night in the face of extra scrutiny given he was in the press for calling out the coach on minutes. He is capable of these big moments and its not just on him to make him fit better.

What are your expectations? He isn’t going to ever be a 20-10 guy on a roster with Brunson, KAT and Hart. There’s only one basketball to go around. And when Brunson is out, he scores 33 including one of the top buzzer beaters of the year on the road on the west coast which has traditionally been death for the Knicks.

I have not seen even once anyone saying he should be a 20-10 guy. I don't know where you got that from.
I've specified multiple times what my expectations for him have been:
1) he should be able to be a secondary ball handler/distributor when JB is overwhelmed much as Josh does, except that with the threat that he can shoot it would be more effective,
2) I expected him to be more consistent with his shot,
3) as a result of #1 and #2 he should be getting more touches to diversify a currently very predictable offense so that the opposing defense cannot just key in on JB and KAT and that would make a world of difference.
I did not expect to NOT notice he's in the game, for most of the time, for most of the games.

Why is it ok to worry? I'm beyond the picks at this point, but given our current state of assets and lack of flexibility with the 2nd apron, the decision we make on Mikal's contract extension basically is THE most important domino of the offseason. And to be ok with moving forward on his extension, you have to be 100% confident with his fit on this roster and whether it gives us the pieces we need to win a championship. And/or it needs to be an extension that still makes him an attractive trade piece to build towards that ultimate goal. At the moment, given his inconsistency this year and the way he has fit through 65 games, I have major questions.

What are the expectations and why is he playing below them? When he was acquired - and we've dreamt about acquiring him for a while, the theory was that 1) He had built in chemistry with the roster due to Villanova connection, 2) He was a lock down wing defender to pair with OG that could give us a viable way to compete with Tatum/Brown and 3) Offensively he was a consistent 3 point shooter, especially from the corners, that could be a second or third scoring option that could create his own offense in situations where it was warranted or needed. 4) He was assumed to be a consistent, dependable presence. He has fulfilled a lot of this by leading the league in games played/minutes, but the performance consistency is not there at all and way below what I expected to see.,

To respond to whether he has met that:

1) Chemistry- its not bad, but its not the same as what we immediately saw with Jalen-Josh and later Jalen-Josh-DDV. He is still has somewhat of amorphous role. Its gotten better as the season has gone on, but early in the year there were turnovers/bad passes. He still floats in games or is a non-entity. It was only last week that he almost completely dissaperead into the background vs. the Lakers. Team defense as a whole doesn't seem to be working because communication is of - is that his fault? No? But his integration is a major part of the chemistry conundrum.

2) Defense- Early on, his defensive impact was pretty low. He wasn't as physical as needed, was having trouble on screens and was getting beat on ball. We have seen improvements as the year has gone on. He had a great defensive game against Simons last night. He's done will against several others recently as well. We just want to see it as a consistent presence, but he's trending right here. The 800 pound gorilla is how bad we have defended Boston. Not all his fault, but is Wing Stop gonna be the key to beating these guys? Unclear.

3) Offense- Midrange accuracy has exceeded all expectations. What we don't see from him that we all that he'd bring is - Consistent 37-40% 3pt shooting, who can kill you especially from the corner, which is crucial in this 5 out type spacing. He has shot well below expectations and the streakiness has been tough to take. This was the "Phoenix" part of the Mikal. The "Brooklyn" Mikal we wanted wasn't 25 a game, but the ability to get his own shot with Jalen off the floor and take the lead on scoring when the situation has called for it. He did in the Blazers game, he did it on Christmas, but it hasn't happened the way I think most expected. Part of this on Thibs and the role he was given. He hasn't stagged with the 2nd unit as much. With the starting unit he plays a very passing role. But we have to figure this part out, because the need for a player who can do this is great. KAT doesn't create. Jalen is doubled/trapped. To reach the ultimate goal we need a player who can play this role - is it Bridges?

4) Consistency- Where I have the most worry. He is Jekyl and Hyde. The fact that he is getting 17.5 pts on 49% is sometimes hard to fathom given how there's nights where his shooting has been horrid. He's obviously been incredible in the midrange which has balanced his inefficiency from 3. His game longs show the up and down nature https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3147657/mikal-bridges. November was really bad. Dec was great!
Jan into Feb had a rough stretch. Its tough to know what to expect from him (btw, same with OG). I don't think I knew this about his game, has he always been streaky?

Lastly, was creating this topic merited? Its a fan discussion forum. Everything above is why I think its a cause for concern that is a reasonable topic for discussion. If you've gone through 65 games thinking Mikal will be totally fine, is an obvious yes to extend and can be a piece to lead us to a title, I admire your optimism, but would hope to better understand your conviction. The evidence points to more uncertainty in my eyes.