Above said - seeing what I can see and watching Mitch do nada offensively and comparing him to guys like Bam, Lopez, Embid, Joker, AD and Ayton and I think Mitch really caps our potential. I think there were some defensive metrics that indicated Ayton was a top rim defender maybe a season or 2 ago without having big block shot #s.

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.

Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.

It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.

Plausible and compelling

I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.

Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.

That one is tricky for me: "Better". Better defensively? Better motor? Dude got benched during finals for lack of effort. The Finals.

Better offensively? Sure.

Better and more impactful player relative to what you are also paying him and the cost it would take to trade for him? Not for me.

They made it to the finals with him.
Compelling.
He and Monty were not on the same page.
I agree Ayton is not a finished piece of work. If one thinks his ceiling is hit, then less compelling.
My take is they moved from Monty to Aytons benefit. THat said, I doubt they moving him.
We don't know all the details of Monty being let go. He has a good rep but his handling of Ayton not a good look.
Durant doing the durant thing? Did Booker have an issue? Do they both want ayton there?

They also sat him in the FINALS. Cause of effort.

The Finals.

I can't and never will get over that. In my book, that type of guy is less than worth it unless it's at a deep discount.

I don't know if his sitting in the final b/c of effort is accurate. He also averaged 18 and 13 on nearly 70% from the floor in a WCF and I think he was 21. Thibs would give him the ball less than Monty so it's not relevant to us but I think there is reason to be more positive when it comes to Ayton.

You know how I know? Cause Monty Williams literally said it.

Coach hated him.

Don Nelson didn’t care for Spree much either - not being sarcastic but thinking just because 1 coach butts heads maybe not enough known to make a judgement AND if you were a player who knew your coach hated you maybe your effort could be impacted.

Very hard to tell what went south there because as Nalod referenced this kid was a big deal 2 years ago — maybe he just doesn’t care but I don’t know.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.

Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.

It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.

Plausible and compelling

I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.

Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.

That one is tricky for me: "Better". Better defensively? Better motor? Dude got benched during finals for lack of effort. The Finals.

Better offensively? Sure.

Better and more impactful player relative to what you are also paying him and the cost it would take to trade for him? Not for me.

They made it to the finals with him.
Compelling.
He and Monty were not on the same page.
I agree Ayton is not a finished piece of work. If one thinks his ceiling is hit, then less compelling.
My take is they moved from Monty to Aytons benefit. THat said, I doubt they moving him.
We don't know all the details of Monty being let go. He has a good rep but his handling of Ayton not a good look.
Durant doing the durant thing? Did Booker have an issue? Do they both want ayton there?

They also sat him in the FINALS. Cause of effort.

The Finals.

I can't and never will get over that. In my book, that type of guy is less than worth it unless it's at a deep discount.

I don't know if his sitting in the final b/c of effort is accurate. He also averaged 18 and 13 on nearly 70% from the floor in a WCF and I think he was 21. Thibs would give him the ball less than Monty so it's not relevant to us but I think there is reason to be more positive when it comes to Ayton.

You know how I know? Cause Monty Williams literally said it.

Coach hated him.

Don Nelson didn’t care for Spree much either - not being sarcastic but thinking just because 1 coach butts heads maybe not enough known to make a judgement AND if you were a player who knew your coach hated you maybe your effort could be impacted.

Very hard to tell what went south there because as Nalod referenced this kid was a big deal 2 years ago — maybe he just doesn’t care but I don’t know.

Also, he didn't say it. He said "it's internal"

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.

Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.

It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.

Plausible and compelling

I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.

Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.

That one is tricky for me: "Better". Better defensively? Better motor? Dude got benched during finals for lack of effort. The Finals.

Better offensively? Sure.

Better and more impactful player relative to what you are also paying him and the cost it would take to trade for him? Not for me.

They made it to the finals with him.
Compelling.
He and Monty were not on the same page.
I agree Ayton is not a finished piece of work. If one thinks his ceiling is hit, then less compelling.
My take is they moved from Monty to Aytons benefit. THat said, I doubt they moving him.
We don't know all the details of Monty being let go. He has a good rep but his handling of Ayton not a good look.
Durant doing the durant thing? Did Booker have an issue? Do they both want ayton there?

They also sat him in the FINALS. Cause of effort.

The Finals.

I can't and never will get over that. In my book, that type of guy is less than worth it unless it's at a deep discount.

I don't know if his sitting in the final b/c of effort is accurate. He also averaged 18 and 13 on nearly 70% from the floor in a WCF and I think he was 21. Thibs would give him the ball less than Monty so it's not relevant to us but I think there is reason to be more positive when it comes to Ayton.

You know how I know? Cause Monty Williams literally said it.

Coach hated him.

Don Nelson didn’t care for Spree much either - not being sarcastic but thinking just because 1 coach butts heads maybe not enough known to make a judgement AND if you were a player who knew your coach hated you maybe your effort could be impacted.

Very hard to tell what went south there because as Nalod referenced this kid was a big deal 2 years ago — maybe he just doesn’t care but I don’t know.

You mean PG Carlesimo right? Nellie loved Spree (but hated Webber)

KnickDanger wrote:What can you realistically expect to get for Fournier from the Spurs (or anyone? Best case scenario is Dougie McBuckets? Think he’d see a lot of the floor with Thibs?

It would appear hanging onto him is for his salary in a possible bigger trade and nothing else.

We wouldn’t be getting a player who would play consistently. It would be matching salary and acquiring an expiring contract or contracts of players who aren’t malcontent.

Knixkik wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What can you realistically expect to get for Fournier from the Spurs (or anyone? Best case scenario is Dougie McBuckets? Think he’d see a lot of the floor with Thibs?

It would appear hanging onto him is for his salary in a possible bigger trade and nothing else.

We wouldn’t be getting a player who would play consistently. It would be matching salary and acquiring an expiring contract or contracts of players who aren’t malcontent.

Fournier isn't particularly a malcontent, not to this point anyway. In McDermott you would get someone who at best plays defense to the level of say...an Evan Fournier. He's not going to play in New York. And maybe he would be just as unhappy. So why bother? The only reason I could guess would be to appease some fans that they're "doing something."

A player with a year more left on his deal than Fournier. That might get some interest. Maybe take care of two problems. Finding a destination for EF, and getting more scoring in the paint.

We've got plenty of guards, thats for sure.

Alpha1971 wrote:Old trade suggestion made for the last two seasons, would you trade a pick with Evan for Bojan Bogdovic ? I wouldn't attach a first but the Detroit second we own I would

Interesting player for the Knicks but I think it’d take a first rounder or at least more than their second rounder, he is decent.