HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players ****ting the bed on defense.

1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.

That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.

The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.

Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.

I was referring to the two different situations you reference.

The substitution is all Thibs.

When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.

I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.

More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.

Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.

I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.

I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.

Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.

The two missed free throws in crunch time. I'm sure you've played in games where someone on your team bricked a couple of free throws, and it took some of the air out of the team. Just enough for the other team to pounce. This happens a lot with Randle. As I've said before, if Randle was the third or fourth best player on the team, these lapses in crunch time, would be more understandable.

If one were to look back at Randle's 2020 season, there's a good chance you'll find I was the first person to point out that this was a different player. I appreciate what he brings to the table, but he plays too an important role in the offense to have so many lapses in crunch time, which extends beyond that excellent recap by Sam.

I dont believe we can build a roster where Randle is a 3rd or 4th option. Because of the cap, and I dont believe the FO wants to gut the bench.

The season isnt over, anything can happen. Unless Randle starts being more of an asset than a liability in crunch time, I believe the FO should look to upgrade. We can go around in circles about who. Players ask to be traded, some are too expensive to keep, someone worth pursuing may become available. Have to wait and see, with Randle, and who is or will be available.

"Crunch time" was last minute of the game? You talking overtime when everyone was spent? He put Knicks in a position that OT should not have happened. But true, pros should not miss Foul shots. But if you want to ignore yet another good game in an impressive last 15 and blame him for the loss while pushing the same ole "let's trade him for someone that does not exist", I guess ok.

Don't think guys that feel he is not a good player will ever appreciate what he brings. Not gonna try. Think some probably will when he is gone and we have yet another victim many expect to be perfect to pick on. My take has always been that many criticize him for not being a number one ignoring what a true No 1 costs. Including giving up many many assets. That and that 20/10 should be useful to a team. I am all for upgrades. But you do know we need that at EVERY position. Don't see guys yelling trade those guys every chance they get Btw, Still yet to see a trade proposal where we get an upgrade for him?

My point earlier waa Randle missing fouls shots in OT was low on list of why we lost.

Crunch time is overtime, and keeping a game from going to overtime, which we could lose. Which we did.

As I just explained, I appreciated what Randle brang to the table since very early in his 2020 M.I.P season. Not when he was dribbling into 3 defenders, the season prior.

I appreciate what Randle does but the lack of clutch play isnt something that should be glossed over.

From last season

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sbondynydn/status/1373996839721185281

13 shots make you clutch? So three more makes make him elite? Ok. Fair enough. We will leave out how he gets double teamed and was playing without 2 starters and three youngins raw to situation.
Remember, NO ONE here ever said the Randle is an elite number one.
This only reinforces my argument that guys that hate Randle are the ones that expected him to be Luka for $23M despite basically being a guy that gets rebounds and bullies people down low at 20/10 rate. Unrealistic expectations have been a stable for disgruntled Knick fans for years.
Where the rinse repeat model gets it's wings.

Games often come down to a critical shot(s) in crunch time. Which is a small but crucial part of the game. Hence the name.

As far as never saying he was the number one option. Randle isnt the number two option either. You might see it, but I dont. Sure he plays that way for three quarters. But too often its going to come down to someone else to win the game. Your two best players should be able to do that.

As I said upthread. If we could add an all-star who can hit that clutch shot, without moving Randle, the FO should go for it. But I doubt we can do it without gutting the bench.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1608199404975947777

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players ****ting the bed on defense.

1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.

That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.

The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.

Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.

I was referring to the two different situations you reference.

The substitution is all Thibs.

When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.

I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.

More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.

Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.

I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.

I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.

Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.

The two missed free throws in crunch time. I'm sure you've played in games where someone on your team bricked a couple of free throws, and it took some of the air out of the team. Just enough for the other team to pounce. This happens a lot with Randle. As I've said before, if Randle was the third or fourth best player on the team, these lapses in crunch time, would be more understandable.

If one were to look back at Randle's 2020 season, there's a good chance you'll find I was the first person to point out that this was a different player. I appreciate what he brings to the table, but he plays too an important role in the offense to have so many lapses in crunch time, which extends beyond that excellent recap by Sam.

I dont believe we can build a roster where Randle is a 3rd or 4th option. Because of the cap, and I dont believe the FO wants to gut the bench.

The season isnt over, anything can happen. Unless Randle starts being more of an asset than a liability in crunch time, I believe the FO should look to upgrade. We can go around in circles about who. Players ask to be traded, some are too expensive to keep, someone worth pursuing may become available. Have to wait and see, with Randle, and who is or will be available.

"Crunch time" was last minute of the game? You talking overtime when everyone was spent? He put Knicks in a position that OT should not have happened. But true, pros should not miss Foul shots. But if you want to ignore yet another good game in an impressive last 15 and blame him for the loss while pushing the same ole "let's trade him for someone that does not exist", I guess ok.

Don't think guys that feel he is not a good player will ever appreciate what he brings. Not gonna try. Think some probably will when he is gone and we have yet another victim many expect to be perfect to pick on. My take has always been that many criticize him for not being a number one ignoring what a true No 1 costs. Including giving up many many assets. That and that 20/10 should be useful to a team. I am all for upgrades. But you do know we need that at EVERY position. Don't see guys yelling trade those guys every chance they get Btw, Still yet to see a trade proposal where we get an upgrade for him?

My point earlier waa Randle missing fouls shots in OT was low on list of why we lost.

Crunch time is overtime, and keeping a game from going to overtime, which we could lose. Which we did.

As I just explained, I appreciated what Randle brang to the table since very early in his 2020 M.I.P season. Not when he was dribbling into 3 defenders, the season prior.

I appreciate what Randle does but the lack of clutch play isnt something that should be glossed over.

From last season

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sbondynydn/status/1373996839721185281

13 shots make you clutch? So three more makes make him elite? Ok. Fair enough. We will leave out how he gets double teamed and was playing without 2 starters and three youngins raw to situation.
Remember, NO ONE here ever said the Randle is an elite number one.
This only reinforces my argument that guys that hate Randle are the ones that expected him to be Luka for $23M despite basically being a guy that gets rebounds and bullies people down low at 20/10 rate. Unrealistic expectations have been a stable for disgruntled Knick fans for years.
Where the rinse repeat model gets it's wings.

Games often come down to a critical shot(s) in crunch time. Which is a small but crucial part of the game. Hence the name.

As far as never saying he was the number one option. Randle isnt the number two option either. You might see it, but I dont. Sure he plays that way for three quarters. But too often its going to come down to someone else to win the game. Your two best players should be able to do that.

As I said upthread. If we could add an all-star who can hit that clutch shot, without moving Randle, the FO should go for it. But I doubt we can do it without gutting the bench.

For the short term, I think the FO needs to give up the ghost on acquiring a 1st tier talent who has that much left. IMO, better to consolidate the 6 -15 bench with higher quality 6-11 role players who know the game.

As far as I can tell, Rose is playing like toast, Cam has checked out, Quickley is struggling - harden the bench - its something that's possible to do.

Agree. We have Iq but we need more nba firepower on unit 2 like clippers

Wall batum kennard Powell

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players ****ting the bed on defense.

1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.

That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.

The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.

Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.

I was referring to the two different situations you reference.

The substitution is all Thibs.

When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.

I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.

More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.

Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.

I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.

I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.

Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.

The two missed free throws in crunch time. I'm sure you've played in games where someone on your team bricked a couple of free throws, and it took some of the air out of the team. Just enough for the other team to pounce. This happens a lot with Randle. As I've said before, if Randle was the third or fourth best player on the team, these lapses in crunch time, would be more understandable.

If one were to look back at Randle's 2020 season, there's a good chance you'll find I was the first person to point out that this was a different player. I appreciate what he brings to the table, but he plays too an important role in the offense to have so many lapses in crunch time, which extends beyond that excellent recap by Sam.

I dont believe we can build a roster where Randle is a 3rd or 4th option. Because of the cap, and I dont believe the FO wants to gut the bench.

The season isnt over, anything can happen. Unless Randle starts being more of an asset than a liability in crunch time, I believe the FO should look to upgrade. We can go around in circles about who. Players ask to be traded, some are too expensive to keep, someone worth pursuing may become available. Have to wait and see, with Randle, and who is or will be available.

"Crunch time" was last minute of the game? You talking overtime when everyone was spent? He put Knicks in a position that OT should not have happened. But true, pros should not miss Foul shots. But if you want to ignore yet another good game in an impressive last 15 and blame him for the loss while pushing the same ole "let's trade him for someone that does not exist", I guess ok.

Don't think guys that feel he is not a good player will ever appreciate what he brings. Not gonna try. Think some probably will when he is gone and we have yet another victim many expect to be perfect to pick on. My take has always been that many criticize him for not being a number one ignoring what a true No 1 costs. Including giving up many many assets. That and that 20/10 should be useful to a team. I am all for upgrades. But you do know we need that at EVERY position. Don't see guys yelling trade those guys every chance they get Btw, Still yet to see a trade proposal where we get an upgrade for him?

My point earlier waa Randle missing fouls shots in OT was low on list of why we lost.

Crunch time is overtime, and keeping a game from going to overtime, which we could lose. Which we did.

As I just explained, I appreciated what Randle brang to the table since very early in his 2020 M.I.P season. Not when he was dribbling into 3 defenders, the season prior.

I appreciate what Randle does but the lack of clutch play isnt something that should be glossed over.

From last season

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sbondynydn/status/1373996839721185281

13 shots make you clutch? So three more makes make him elite? Ok. Fair enough. We will leave out how he gets double teamed and was playing without 2 starters and three youngins raw to situation.
Remember, NO ONE here ever said the Randle is an elite number one.
This only reinforces my argument that guys that hate Randle are the ones that expected him to be Luka for $23M despite basically being a guy that gets rebounds and bullies people down low at 20/10 rate. Unrealistic expectations have been a stable for disgruntled Knick fans for years.
Where the rinse repeat model gets it's wings.

Games often come down to a critical shot(s) in crunch time. Which is a small but crucial part of the game. Hence the name.

As far as never saying he was the number one option. Randle isnt the number two option either. You might see it, but I dont. Sure he plays that way for three quarters. But too often its going to come down to someone else to win the game. Your two best players should be able to do that.

As I said upthread. If we could add an all-star who can hit that clutch shot, without moving Randle, the FO should go for it. But I doubt we can do it without gutting the bench.

For the short term, I think the FO needs to give up the ghost on acquiring a 1st tier talent who has that much left. IMO, better to consolidate the 6 -15 bench with higher quality 6-11 role players who know the game.

As far as I can tell, Rose is playing like toast, Cam has checked out, Quickley is struggling - harden the bench - its something that's possible to do.

If a Tobias Harris level player is what we would be getting, I agree.

I want to see the front office ready to make deals at all times, ready to have the first crack at what they see as an opportunity. Not making lateral moves to look busy.

I like the role Hartenstein, and Simms are playing, but we need a big with a post game. Its basically Randle, and thats it.

Fournier, Rose, Hartenstein, Reddish for Harris, Thybulle, Springer and #32 do it for me as well

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Knick fans... find was to blame the coach. Blame Randle... GustavBahler thinks IQ should (after shoot 1-10 from 3 with 15 assists) play SG instead of PG. Phil thinks we should have played Cam. All good stuff

I do hope the first thing the next coach or all star can cover are crunch time FTs and securing loose balls. Grimes and McBride staring at each other playing hot potato while Luka takes in and shoots it. THAT was the game right there. Stop with the other BS.

This actually how young teams grow and develop. By playing to win, even if you come up short. Good game for no RJ/Brunson... really painful loss

Thats just weak fishmike. Been saying since IQ's rookie year that he's a better scorer when thats his primary role, not running the point as well.

IQ wasnt looking to score in the first half, and guys were hitting their shots.

No blame for Thibs for the distribution of minutes, or Randle for bricking game changing FTs. Its all on the young guys. Interesting.

did you actually watch? See it unfold? Weak is your desperation to find Randle's fault in this. Randle got us to a place where all we had to do was secure ONE rebound. We had two players with it in their hands. Luka took it and scored it. THAT was the game with 1 second. Really nothing matters but THAT play. Randle was a star. Grimes was a star. Our guys played great. Closing games matters and young teams struggle with that. They will learn. They are well coached (expect when Thibs isnt yelling "hold the ball or "hit that FT")

Distribution of minutes? This happens. Its the NBA. Its like you dont even follow the league. Every team does this and has nights like this. Luka played just as much as our guys. Give me a break.

Thats just weak fishmike. Been saying since IQ's rookie year that he's a better scorer when thats his primary role, not running the point as well.

You have been wrong since his rookie year then. He's never been anything but a streaky scorer, developing the other parts of his game are why he's improving. The guy's hovered around 40% shooting and 35% from 3 since he's been in the league. You want to make him a full time scorer. I'm glad your not our coach

Everyone who is a Knick fan the last 20 years: "We need a PG that can defend. That can break down the defense. That can shoot the ball. That gets the ball to the hot hands. Who makes the offense flow."

IQ has 15 assists. Blended well with Randle and got Grimes 33. Ran the offense well and had a team missing their two starters up 9 with seconds left against good teams with a top 5 player. Then the thing that could happen to youngins happened.

Gustav: IQ not a PG and we have Randle to blame.

I wanted Knicks to give IQ the nod prior to JB. Not mad we got him. Been saying he can be another Maxey if given the chance. Guarantee that after watching IQ last night, JB will be just fine to play in next game.

Is this Randle's team? Randle sure act like it, and Thibs are backing him up.
Randle wanted the ball last night, but D.Rose took the shot, seconds later D.Rose was put on the bench.
The same thing kept happening to Quickley the previous seasons coach Thibs would take Quickley out the game for not passing the ball to Randle every time Randle ask for it, even when Quickley made the shot.
As much as I like Randle at the PF position which he rarely plays any more, since Fiz told him to play the point-forward.
Randle has not showed to be a good team leader the past 4 seasons.
I'm waiting to see in the mid-season games how well Randle & Brunson run the offense.

The best thing I could say about the Mavs game, and the Christmas games 4th quarter performance are
TRADE RJ Barrett asap

EwingsGlass wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

TPercy wrote:What a **** loss and this is 1000% on the players

Not gonna let you get away with making this post without explanation.

I’m sorry but whose fault is it that these guys are paid millions of dollars and can’t hit their free throws? This is 1000% their fault. They had the game and they screwed the pooch.

We were up 9 with 44 seconds left and two timeouts. Only 1 free throw was missed.. We shouldn't be in any position where one miss threatens a 9 point lead. This is THIBS fault at least 99%

44.1 Julius Randle makes 2-foot two point shot 110 101
44.1 Mavericks Full timeout 110 101
41.1 Luka Doncic makes driving layup (Spencer Dinwiddie assists) 110 103
33.2 Christian Wood personal take foul 110 103
33.2 Miles McBride makes free throw 1 of 2 111 103
33.2 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 112 103
26.1 Christian Wood makes 28-foot three point jumper (Tim Hardaway Jr. assists) 112 106
21.0 Quentin Grimes vs. Luka Doncic (Tim Hardaway Jr. gains possession) 112 106
21.0 Quentin Grimes lost ball turnover (Luka Doncic steals) 112 106
18.0 Tim Hardaway Jr. misses 29-foot three point jumper 112 106
15.1 Luka Doncic offensive rebound 112 106
15.1 Luka Doncic makes two point shot 112 108
15.1 Immanuel Quickley shooting foul 112 108
15.1 Luka Doncic makes free throw 1 of 1 112 109
15.1 Knicks Full timeout 112 109
15.1 Reggie Bullock enters the game for Christian Wood 112 109
15.1 Frank Ntilikina enters the game for Dwight Powell 112 109
15.1 Derrick Rose enters the game for Mitchell Robinson 112 109
11.1 Luka Doncic personal take foul 112 109
11.1 Miles McBride misses free throw 1 of 2 112 109
11.1 Knicks offensive team rebound 112 109
11.1 Christian Wood enters the game for Reggie Bullock 112 109
11.1 Dwight Powell enters the game for Frank Ntilikina 112 109
11.1 Mitchell Robinson enters the game for Derrick Rose 112 109
11.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 113 109
11.1 Mavericks Full timeout 113 109
11.1 Reggie Bullock enters the game for Christian Wood 113 109
9.1 Spencer Dinwiddie makes 27-foot three pointer (Luka Doncic assists) 113 112
8.1 Knicks Full timeout 113 112
8.1 Frank Ntilikina enters the game for Dwight Powell 113 112
8.1 Derrick Rose enters the game for Mitchell Robinson 113 112
7.1 Spencer Dinwiddie personal take foul 113 112
7.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 1 of 2 114 112
7.1 Dwight Powell enters the game for Reggie Bullock 114 112
7.1 Christian Wood enters the game for Frank Ntilikina 114 112
7.1 Mitchell Robinson enters the game for Derrick Rose 114 112
7.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 115 112
4.0 Quentin Grimes personal take foul 115 112
4.0 Luka Doncic makes free throw 1 of 2 115 113
4.0 JaVale McGee enters the game for Dwight Powell 115 113
4.0 Luka Doncic misses free throw 2 of 2 115 113
1.0 Luka Doncic offensive rebound 115 113
1.0 Luka Doncic makes 11-foot jumper 115 115
0.0 Immanuel Quickley misses 62-foot three point jumper 115 115
0.0 Knicks offensive team rebound 115 115

I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players ****ting the bed on defense.

I mean, Grimes was overmatched against Doncic. Grimes is a fine defender but when Doncic bodied him or put his body between Grimes and the ball with his unorthodox shooting angles, Grimes was helpless. I would have liked to see Cam called in as a defensive specialist to try and cool Doncic off. Having Barrett should have helped a lot.

Randle could have had a triple double if he reacted to defenses a moment sooner. He is in the habit of dribbling into the double and jump passing instead of taking what the defense gives him. It shows a lack of faith in his teammates. So often, guys are wide open after the double and Randle waits a half a second too long and the defense adjusts. He needs to make better reads.

Can’t really argue about this loss though being down both Brunson and Barrett. They played a great 47 minutes and 25 seconds. But the plane that only gets 99% of the way to its destination…

Takeaway is

McBride needs to get looser on offense. He plays stiff. His defense is elite. Just needs to loosen up a bit. More passing and touches will achieve this.

Rose - As much as I love the guy, I just don’t think he is effective on the court lately. I’d rather see Cam getting those spot minutes.

Hart - I am not a huge fan.

Grimes - Still making some costly errors. I agree this is growing pains. Knicks probably need to drill situational options. It’s becoming pattern that he is holding the ball. Here it looked like he assumed he would get fouled instead of tied up.

Sims - The inability to hit a 7 foot jumper hurt. He probably could have leapt that same distance.

The fact that we don’t have play calls for late game situations and just use iso ball dribble work is a shame.

Robinson - Man, those FT misses were costly.

Sucks to lose 4 straight after winning 8 but 8-4 is still a good run. Next two games aren’t gimmes the way we play, but we should be able to notch a couple wins.

There were alot of things against the Knicks this game no doubt. I already said some of the stuff I saw that worried me is a part of a bigger issue, but with everything you said, the bottom line is they were up 9 with 30 seconds to go. Anything that happened up to that point, while could be a cause for concern in the bigger picture, in this specific game means nothing. All the short comings, all the injuries this team was up 9 with 30 seconds to go. They were in a position to win. What happened to give this game away in that 30 seconds? They are getting away from smart defensive basketball that won them 8 games in a row.

Grimes is fouling/brain farting too much down the stretch.
McBride is shooting too much.
Somehow they are not grabbing key rebounds, even though they have their hands on them.
They are fumbling away passes and chances.
They are not acting like a JV team (Randle screaming for SOMEONE to foul with like 15 seconds left in the overtime because no one is trying to stop the clock reminded me of Lebron James-NO I'm not comparing Randle to Lebron- was yelling at JR Smith.

They are just finding new and creative ways to lose and it is frustrating and embarrassing as all get out.

martin wrote:How’s this perspective: to beat the Knicks on their home court, it takes the Mavs and their superstar needing to have a cosmically gigantic performance without the Knicks having 2 of their best 3 players suit up and some of you’all mad? 😳😅

I gotta beg to differ here. The Knicks played the whole game without 2/3 of their best players, Luca was having a monster game all game, and they were winning with 30 seconds to go. For them to let that slip is inexcusable.

Kemet wrote:OK I'm gonna say it, "Wasn't Cam Reddish Spose to defend Luka when Barrett went out with injury?".
Oh yeah .. 6.7 Luka Doncic is a 3 time all-star, coach Thibs put 6.2 Deuce McBride, and 6.4 Grims whom are practically in their rookie season to defend Luka .. Well the 6.7 PG Luka Doncic had a Career high 60 pts

What makes Cam this defensive stopper all of a sudden when he started really playing defense at the beginning of this season? No one was saying Grimes and McBride were "practically in their rookie season" during that win streak.

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I have to tell you guys, I have the exact opposite reaction. Literally 100% divergent and beyond that.

I am not watching necessarily for win or loss. Died at end of game cause they didn't win but was over-ecstatic cause of the way the guys played.

This is actually development, what every fan has wanted to see forever and it seems to me that a majoriy of folks really don't appreciate or don't even want to recognize what is going on right before them.

Grimes nearly had a all star in waiting type of performance. IQ showed distribution but not shooting. Duece showed us what he could be if he finds a shot and decides he too can take ball to rim. Mitch is out there beasting on guys heads.

This is the meat of what is exciting about this team.

Get used to appreciating it for what it is instead of pretending the Knicks are a deep playoff team and then expecting win/loss based on that. Knicks just had their best player sit with injury, RJ do down in first minutes AND all the young kids play out of their minds.

And folks are angry or losing interest? It boggles my mind.

Change your perspective and watch for development/growth - it's wild and it's happening.

SergioNYK wrote:Not much else to say. The only way this could have been worse is if it happened at home on Christmas. It hurts and it sucks. It's the type of loss that makes you question as a fan it's worth investing so much time and energy. Cause right now it doesn't seem worth it.

I admire and envy your ability to see and feel like this Martin cause this loss has really effected me. It was more than just your typical regular season loss. It was an embarrassment and arguably the biggest choke job in NBA history. And all you're hearing and seeing are highlights and the entire basketball world laughing at us. I don't get how anyone can just shake if off and celebrate Grimes when that happened but kudos to you.

martin wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I have to tell you guys, I have the exact opposite reaction. Literally 100% divergent and beyond that.

I am not watching necessarily for win or loss. Died at end of game cause they didn't win but was over-ecstatic cause of the way the guys played.

This is actually development, what every fan has wanted to see forever and it seems to me that a majoriy of folks really don't appreciate or don't even want to recognize what is going on right before them.

Grimes nearly had a all star in waiting type of performance. IQ showed distribution but not shooting. Duece showed us what he could be if he finds a shot and decides he too can take ball to rim. Mitch is out there beasting on guys heads.

This is the meat of what is exciting about this team.

Get used to appreciating it for what it is instead of pretending the Knicks are a deep playoff team and then expecting win/loss based on that. Knicks just had their best player sit with injury, RJ do down in first minutes AND all the young kids play out of their minds.

And folks are angry or losing interest? It boggles my mind.

Change your perspective and watch for development/growth - it's wild and it's happening.

SergioNYK wrote:Not much else to say. The only way this could have been worse is if it happened at home on Christmas. It hurts and it sucks. It's the type of loss that makes you question as a fan it's worth investing so much time and energy. Cause right now it doesn't seem worth it.

I admire and envy your ability to see and feel like this Martin cause this loss has really effected me. It was more than just your typical regular season loss. It was an embarrassment and arguably the biggest choke job in NBA history. And all you're hearing and seeing are highlights and the entire basketball world laughing at us. I don't get how anyone can just shake if off and celebrate Grimes when that happened but kudos to you.

I thought this was a genuine reply, thanks.

I’d like to add one thought for you: there is a notion out there that Thibs is a win-now coach and that’s all he is and I disagree with this and have no idea why anyone would characterize what is happening with “win-now” or “win-only” or whatever the phrase and characterization is.

You are seeing what happens when you prioritize development and the usage of young players, and those players often make mistakes that leaves to embarrassing loses. And we should not be under any illusions: Thibs and all the players and the entirety of the the FO want to win games, it’s no different than any other team out there, but the bigger arc of getting better is solidly there.

You know what may be more true? The Knicks have win-now or win-only FANS. IMO there is a good reason to say you can’t develop in NY. Look at the reactions on any Knicks forums and see the reactions, it’s all about why Thibs didn’t just make the right subs or play Fournier/Cam/Rose the right amount of minutes to win a game or adjust this way or that without any disregard for the dev process or the young players and the process they are going thru.

Thibs on the hot seat after a few loses or a really bad loss? That notion to me is entirely without basis (and the more direct me uses the word Stupid), it’s literally a win-only fan projecting their emotion after a loss, give or take where the Knicks are during the season.

Guys like RJ Randle Grimes and even Brunson NEED to see end game scenarios, all of them with the ball in their hands. They need to make those mistakes - even at the possible cost of losing - so they don’t make them when it really counts, like the playoffs.

Thibs and FO inherited a 20 win talent team and knew that there are going to be tons of loses, making them the right type of loses will be the key to long term growth. Thibs didn’t get hired as a playoff only coach, that should be readily obvious.

There is a whole forums worth of win-only fans here too and that’s the only perspective they have. You will suffer and die after each loss for it 🤷‍♂️

Martin. Fantastic post.