martin wrote:

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https://twitter.com/tom_piccolo/status/1547375695340371968

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https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1547587007609651203

The Strickland: A New York Knicks Site Guaranteed To Make 'Em Jump
How the failed Kyle Lowry trade of 2013 can inform the signing of new Knick Jalen Brunson
Featured
Jul 18
Written By Sam Litfin
Almost nine years ago in 2013, the Knicks had a chance to add a point guard to their team that was deemed undersized, not good enough to lead a contender, and more… and that guy went on to be a catalyst of a title team while the Knicks were left looking for their lead guard for years. Can the Kyle Lowry swing and miss inform the current Jalen Brunson acquisition?

The Knicks opened 2022 free agency by signing Mavericks point guard Jalen Brunson to a long-term contract.

Some Knicks fans believe that New York is paying too much for Jalen Brunson, a 6-foot-1 guard who surely won't bring a title to Madison Square Garden by himself.

Some believe that Brunson represents "no-man's land," a purgatory for mediocre teams forgoing their chance to add top-level talent in the draft.

Some believe that since Brunson alone won't elevate the Knicks to a "contender," why bother?

Let's try to answer that question by looking at some recent NBA history.

First, let's attempt to make sense of Brunson's recently inked four-year, $104 million contract to play point guard for the New York Knicks with an exercise in self-reflection.

Let's take a look at another Villanova point guard, who almost joined the Knicks, but instead joined another team. He then budded into a champion and six time All-Star.

Let's rehash the Knicks' failed pursuit of Kyle Lowry before the 2013-14 trade deadline, and the spiral of events that ensued afterward.

First, we can draw a few key parallels between now and then. In terms of player profiles, Lowry and Brunson are not terribly far apart.

Undersized ball handlers with great strength and skill, wide frames, and the ability to make good decisions with the ball. Fierce, crafty guards built like NFL strong safeties. The individual player comparisons between Lowry and Brunson are difficult to ignore despite their skillsets not being identical.

With almost identical physical profiles, both players also registered a usage rate of 22% in their respective contract years.

Per 36 Minutes Comparison
Kyle Lowry 2013-14
Per 36 Minutes Table
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2013-14 27 TOR NBA PG 79 79 2862 5.7 13.6 .423 2.4 6.3 .380 3.4 7.3 .460 3.9 4.8 .813 1.1 3.5 4.6 7.4 1.5 0.2 2.4 3.4 17.8
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/15/2022.
Jalen Brunson 2021-22
Per 36 Minutes Table
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2021-22 25 DAL NBA SG 79 61 2524 7.2 14.4 .502 1.3 3.6 .373 5.9 10.8 .545 2.6 3.0 .840 0.6 3.8 4.4 5.4 0.9 0.0 1.8 2.2 18.3
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/15/2022.
Numbers bear out the similarities in their impact on the game. Though these numbers do also convey some key points the eye test confirm.

Lowry was a better overall defender and facilitator at that stage, while Brunson has the advantage as a shot creator and finisher.

Secondly, let's draw a few historical parallels between Lowry's career arc and the Knicks’ current situation. How does this help us, after all?

Story time.

After capping off of a successful 2012-13 season which saw them reach the No. 2 seed, the 2013-14 Knicks got off to a painfully slow start. They were looking for answers at the trade deadline in the wake of one of their biggest offseason miscues of all time, the Andrea Bargnani trade.

We don't need to rehash the details, it's still too painful. We can move on.

A proposed trade for the Knicks to acquire 27-year-old Toronto Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry was all but complete. Lowry is quoted afterwards as saying, "I was traded. Essentially, I was gone.”

The Knicks were reportedly unwilling to part with a package containing Ray Felton, Metta World Peace, and Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr., or a 2018 first round pick to obtain Lowry in a trade with the Raptors. James Dolan allegedly was involved in vetoing the trade, having cold feet about dealing with Raptors GM Masai Ujiri. During Ujiri's time in Denver he helped orchestrate the blockbuster Carmelo Anthony trade of 2011, and he of course also made the Bargnani trade with the Knicks in the 2013 offseason, both moves that Dolan and the Knicks were ridiculed for to varying degrees.

The Knicks would go on to miss the playoffs by one game.

They finished 37-45, ironically — or perhaps symbolically — the same record they finished with during their uninspiring 2021-22 campaign.

The Knicks, who had lost Jason Kidd to pair with Ray Felton heading into the 2013-14 season, were forced to settle for Jose Calderon in free agency in the summer of 2014.

Since pulling out of the Lowry deal in late 2013, Dolan and the Knicks have continued to scour every corner of the Earth, hunting desperately for any semblance of an answer at the point guard position.

But that's enough Dolan talk. This is a time for hope, and excitement.

Let's get back to story time and return to the 2013-14 NBA calendar.

After the season, the Toronto Raptors would go on to extend Lowry to a four-year, $48 million extension.

This event is worth discussing for a number of reasons, especially in light of the historical framework we are operating within.

Lowry's extension can provide us with some quantifiable present-day insights that should help inform our historical comparison with Brunson.

A few bullet points about the 4/48 figure that Lowry received from Toronto in July 2014, in light of the parallels we have already drawn between the two players:

The salary cap was ~$58.6 million in 2013-14. The cap is ~$123.6 million for the 2022-23 season.

Lowry's $12 million yearly salary under 2014's $58.6 million salary cap, when adjusted for the $123.6 million cap of today's league, is a yearly salary of about $25.2 million.

If you convert Lowry's four-year, $48 million extension from 2014's salary cap to be the same percentage of the team's $123.6 million salary cap today, you would pay about four years, $101 million.

Brunson's reported four-year, $104 million contract would make him the 14th-highest paid point guard in the league in 2022 (36-year-old Miami Heat point guard Kyle Lowry is No. 13).

In 2014, Lowry's $12 million salary placed him as the 10th-highest paid point guard in the league, for comparison.

All of these facts solidify that Brunson is being paid a fair amount, commensurate with his contributions on the court.

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Article from the Strickland comparing Lowry to Brunson.
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/how-failed-kyle-lowry-trade-2013-inform-jalen-brunson-signing-knicks

The Strickland: A New York Knicks Site Guaranteed To Make 'Em Jump
How the failed Kyle Lowry trade of 2013 can inform the signing of new Knick Jalen Brunson
Featured
Jul 18
Written By Sam Litfin
Almost nine years ago in 2013, the Knicks had a chance to add a point guard to their team that was deemed undersized, not good enough to lead a contender, and more… and that guy went on to be a catalyst of a title team while the Knicks were left looking for their lead guard for years. Can the Kyle Lowry swing and miss inform the current Jalen Brunson acquisition?

The Knicks opened 2022 free agency by signing Mavericks point guard Jalen Brunson to a long-term contract.

Some Knicks fans believe that New York is paying too much for Jalen Brunson, a 6-foot-1 guard who surely won't bring a title to Madison Square Garden by himself.

Some believe that Brunson represents "no-man's land," a purgatory for mediocre teams forgoing their chance to add top-level talent in the draft.

Some believe that since Brunson alone won't elevate the Knicks to a "contender," why bother?

Let's try to answer that question by looking at some recent NBA history.

First, let's attempt to make sense of Brunson's recently inked four-year, $104 million contract to play point guard for the New York Knicks with an exercise in self-reflection.

Let's take a look at another Villanova point guard, who almost joined the Knicks, but instead joined another team. He then budded into a champion and six time All-Star.

Let's rehash the Knicks' failed pursuit of Kyle Lowry before the 2013-14 trade deadline, and the spiral of events that ensued afterward.

First, we can draw a few key parallels between now and then. In terms of player profiles, Lowry and Brunson are not terribly far apart.

Undersized ball handlers with great strength and skill, wide frames, and the ability to make good decisions with the ball. Fierce, crafty guards built like NFL strong safeties. The individual player comparisons between Lowry and Brunson are difficult to ignore despite their skillsets not being identical.

With almost identical physical profiles, both players also registered a usage rate of 22% in their respective contract years.

Per 36 Minutes Comparison
Kyle Lowry 2013-14
Per 36 Minutes Table
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2013-14 27 TOR NBA PG 79 79 2862 5.7 13.6 .423 2.4 6.3 .380 3.4 7.3 .460 3.9 4.8 .813 1.1 3.5 4.6 7.4 1.5 0.2 2.4 3.4 17.8
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/15/2022.
Jalen Brunson 2021-22
Per 36 Minutes Table
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2021-22 25 DAL NBA SG 79 61 2524 7.2 14.4 .502 1.3 3.6 .373 5.9 10.8 .545 2.6 3.0 .840 0.6 3.8 4.4 5.4 0.9 0.0 1.8 2.2 18.3
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/15/2022.
Numbers bear out the similarities in their impact on the game. Though these numbers do also convey some key points the eye test confirm.

Lowry was a better overall defender and facilitator at that stage, while Brunson has the advantage as a shot creator and finisher.

Secondly, let's draw a few historical parallels between Lowry's career arc and the Knicks’ current situation. How does this help us, after all?

Story time.

After capping off of a successful 2012-13 season which saw them reach the No. 2 seed, the 2013-14 Knicks got off to a painfully slow start. They were looking for answers at the trade deadline in the wake of one of their biggest offseason miscues of all time, the Andrea Bargnani trade.

We don't need to rehash the details, it's still too painful. We can move on.

A proposed trade for the Knicks to acquire 27-year-old Toronto Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry was all but complete. Lowry is quoted afterwards as saying, "I was traded. Essentially, I was gone.”

The Knicks were reportedly unwilling to part with a package containing Ray Felton, Metta World Peace, and Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr., or a 2018 first round pick to obtain Lowry in a trade with the Raptors. James Dolan allegedly was involved in vetoing the trade, having cold feet about dealing with Raptors GM Masai Ujiri. During Ujiri's time in Denver he helped orchestrate the blockbuster Carmelo Anthony trade of 2011, and he of course also made the Bargnani trade with the Knicks in the 2013 offseason, both moves that Dolan and the Knicks were ridiculed for to varying degrees.

The Knicks would go on to miss the playoffs by one game.

They finished 37-45, ironically — or perhaps symbolically — the same record they finished with during their uninspiring 2021-22 campaign.

The Knicks, who had lost Jason Kidd to pair with Ray Felton heading into the 2013-14 season, were forced to settle for Jose Calderon in free agency in the summer of 2014.

Since pulling out of the Lowry deal in late 2013, Dolan and the Knicks have continued to scour every corner of the Earth, hunting desperately for any semblance of an answer at the point guard position.

But that's enough Dolan talk. This is a time for hope, and excitement.

Let's get back to story time and return to the 2013-14 NBA calendar.

After the season, the Toronto Raptors would go on to extend Lowry to a four-year, $48 million extension.

This event is worth discussing for a number of reasons, especially in light of the historical framework we are operating within.

Lowry's extension can provide us with some quantifiable present-day insights that should help inform our historical comparison with Brunson.

A few bullet points about the 4/48 figure that Lowry received from Toronto in July 2014, in light of the parallels we have already drawn between the two players:

The salary cap was ~$58.6 million in 2013-14. The cap is ~$123.6 million for the 2022-23 season.

Lowry's $12 million yearly salary under 2014's $58.6 million salary cap, when adjusted for the $123.6 million cap of today's league, is a yearly salary of about $25.2 million.

If you convert Lowry's four-year, $48 million extension from 2014's salary cap to be the same percentage of the team's $123.6 million salary cap today, you would pay about four years, $101 million.

Brunson's reported four-year, $104 million contract would make him the 14th-highest paid point guard in the league in 2022 (36-year-old Miami Heat point guard Kyle Lowry is No. 13).

In 2014, Lowry's $12 million salary placed him as the 10th-highest paid point guard in the league, for comparison.

All of these facts solidify that Brunson is being paid a fair amount, commensurate with his contributions on the court.

Hmmmmmm……..

"Lincoln" and "Kennedy" each have seven letters.[5]
Both presidents were elected to Congress in '46 and later to the presidency in '60.[5]
Both married women in their 20s while themselves in their 30s.[7][unreliable source?]
Both assassins, John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald, were born in '39 and were known by their three names, composed of fifteen letters.[5]
Booth ran from a theater and was caught in a warehouse; Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.[5]
The assassins were both Southerners.[5]
Both of the presidents' successors were named Johnson and born in '08.[5]
Both Lincoln and Kennedy were particularly concerned with civil rights[5] and made their views strongly known.
Both presidents were shot in the head on a Friday.[5]
Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy who told him not to go to Ford's Theatre. Kennedy had a secretary named Evelyn Lincoln and she warned him not to go to Dallas.[5]
Both Oswald and Booth were assassinated before they could be put on trial.[5]

Yeah, but what were their true shooting percentages?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/thestrickland/status/1549522240634593280

Katz said in his athletic article that Ainge tends to make his demands then F's off and plays golf until they are met. What was he doing this past weekend? Off playing golf with Wade and the Jazz Owner (can't find the tweet now).

smackeddog wrote:Certainly seems like the initial reports/belief that the deal was close was BS pumped out by Ainge to get the press and fans to pressure Rose to give up the farm to get it done/over the line.

Katz said in his athletic article that Ainge tends to make his demands then F's off and plays golf until they are met. What was he doing this past weekend? Off playing golf with Wade and the Jazz Owner (can't find the tweet now).

You can be sure none of it was leaking from NY. I never believed anything was close, only that conversation was had as far as what Utah would want in return. This is not close and might never be. I said as much on the other thread about a week and a half ago.