fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

Are Wendell Carter or Mikal Bridges "just role players?"

If Young had a transcendent skill set he would be a top 5 pick. That is TBD. His one college season was wildly inconsistent and it seems like the big arguments FOR Young regarding his inconsistent play are
1) he had no talent on his team and this will improve in the NBA
2) things will be easier in the NBA (fewer double teams)

To play devils advocate, sometimes transcendent players are overlooked....Remember, Steph was picked 7th, after Jonny Flynn for crying out loud. And on most mock drafts, Steph never cracked the top 5....It happens.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

So the Knicks let Phil draft a player for his system knowing they were going to fire him a week after the draft? Boy your detective work is always impressive.

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

So the Knicks let Phil draft a player for his system knowing they were going to fire him a week after the draft? Boy your detective work is always impressive.

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

NOthing the Knicks did at that time made any sense. They also had just given Phil a 2 yr extension for 24 mil a month and a half before he was fired. Phil was exploring trading KP because he missed his exit meeting. Phil fell alseep during a pre-draft workout and ended up drafting the kid that didn't workout for nba teams. I definitely think Frank was drafted with the triangle in mind. I also am not sure that he will end up being a point guard. He may play that role sometimes but Perry brought in two more young guys and had Frank off the ball by the end of the season. I think Frank ends up playing 1-3 but performs best next to a dominant, aggressive ball handler. He is young and that could change. His workout tapes look good and maybe he becomes more aggressive over the summer. His age, transitioning to a new country/league, excellent character and work ethic etc. are all things that need to be considered when projecting his future. But I am not sure that it is at point guard. Aside from the Melo trade, Perry brought in four players, Troy Williams and three point guards. Two of those guys are former lottery picks and still young. I think management maybe looking at Frank in a different role from point guard.

Phil exercised his right to the last two years of his contract. It was not an extension. The money was his unless he retired.
Whats this nonsense about "Picked as a triangle player" like he is usless otherwise? Is at guy that can the skills to succeed a bad thing? Was Jordan and Kobe usless as non triangle players if need be? Does frank have to go to some Detriangle reclamation education center as he might not be a PG?
Were Kobe or Jordan PG's? They were basketball players. Frank for all the labels thrown at him for not being "AAU", or "Submissive" is what he is, a physically developing teen still growing who has shown some very good potential that few of us can really see but some can speculate on. Others see him for what he is and perhaps fathom some improvment but not much. Proof? Find an article or a Shump to pivot as proof.
Most of us are just rooting for him, but others are flat out Franco Phobic on this kid for some reason. Kid was taken on potential. Glad we drafted him. Phuch Malik Monk or DSjr!

Seems more it was a Mutual condition that either could back away. Dolan for all his stupidity does have a history of honoring deals that don’t make sense. I thought H20’s deal was always based on a handshake when he opted out.
Same with Dolan extending Isiah Thomas. In this case there was an out after three years that was done in the event there was a players strike.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

Are Wendell Carter or Mikal Bridges "just role players?"

If Young had a transcendent skill set he would be a top 5 pick. That is TBD. His one college season was wildly inconsistent and it seems like the big arguments FOR Young regarding his inconsistent play are
1) he had no talent on his team and this will improve in the NBA
2) things will be easier in the NBA (fewer double teams)

To play devils advocate, sometimes transcendent players are overlooked....Remember, Steph was picked 7th, after Jonny Flynn for crying out loud. And on most mock drafts, Steph never cracked the top 5....It happens.

yea man. Dirk was drafted 9... after Olowakandaforever, Bibby, Raef LaFrentz, Tractor Traylor and Larry Hughes.

My arguement stands... hoping that a player has talent and skills that can transcend physical shortcomings is always a long shot in the league and ensures the player has a very very low floor.

Mikal Bridges is a sure thing NBA rotation player. Maybe he's the next Kahwi. Maybe he's the next Dermar Carrol or Otto Porter or Bruce Bowen. He will be an NBA player. The list of sure fire NCAA scorers who bust in the NBA is a very long one.

Adam Morrison... paging Adam Morrison. 28ppg on 50% shooting and he's out of the league in 3 years.

Its also not a position of need with Burke (short term at least) and Frank (long term) while I have no center or SF and a bunch of good options there with a similar talent level of Young. Just my 2c. Young is shiny object. The guy (Briggs) who started this thread also wants to max out Isiah Thomas

I am starting to worry about wanting Mikal for our pick. Since you like him as well.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

So the Knicks let Phil draft a player for his system knowing they were going to fire him a week after the draft? Boy your detective work is always impressive.

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

Ah...Fish Logic! Your right, your logic is much better. As it only takes you ONE line not 15-20 minutes to show how little you know. So YOUR detective work is claiming that the Knicks knew a week before Phil was fired that he was no longer part of the future?? So they told him, "hey Phil your done, so just go Montana". "We got the draft" But they went ahead and picked a guy that was widely written to be a good "Triangle" fit? GOH!

I'm glad you pointed that out to him, because he sounded ridiculous. Why would you let a guy run your draft you plan on firing.

I'm not sure who he is trying to convince that frank wasn't a system pick, Maybe he needs to hear it from frank himself

The system there is a good system for me,” Ntilikina said during Wednesday’s availability with draft prospects. “I think I could play in it. The organization is very good. It would be great.”

Ntilikina is only 18 years old, but his frame and skills may fit the triangle better than any of the guards who could be available in the Knicks’ range.

Ntilikina is 6-5 and can play both backcourt positions. Multiple scouts have said Ntilikina meets Jackson requirements for the triangle in that he’s a big, versatile guard.

“It’s a good system with a lot of rules and placement,” Ntilikina said. “But the game I play with my team back in France is very similar to this game. I think it would be great for me to end up here.”

I guess frank is lying

10 out of 10...phil would draft frank over trae any day of the yr because of the fit and his philosophy

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

Are Wendell Carter or Mikal Bridges "just role players?"

If Young had a transcendent skill set he would be a top 5 pick. That is TBD. His one college season was wildly inconsistent and it seems like the big arguments FOR Young regarding his inconsistent play are
1) he had no talent on his team and this will improve in the NBA
2) things will be easier in the NBA (fewer double teams)

To play devils advocate, sometimes transcendent players are overlooked....Remember, Steph was picked 7th, after Jonny Flynn for crying out loud. And on most mock drafts, Steph never cracked the top 5....It happens.

yea man. Dirk was drafted 9... after Olowakandaforever, Bibby, Raef LaFrentz, Tractor Traylor and Larry Hughes.

My arguement stands... hoping that a player has talent and skills that can transcend physical shortcomings is always a long shot in the league and ensures the player has a very very low floor.

Mikal Bridges is a sure thing NBA rotation player. Maybe he's the next Kahwi. Maybe he's the next Dermar Carrol or Otto Porter or Bruce Bowen. He will be an NBA player. The list of sure fire NCAA scorers who bust in the NBA is a very long one.

Adam Morrison... paging Adam Morrison. 28ppg on 50% shooting and he's out of the league in 3 years.

Its also not a position of need with Burke (short term at least) and Frank (long term) while I have no center or SF and a bunch of good options there with a similar talent level of Young. Just my 2c. Young is shiny object. The guy (Briggs) who started this thread also wants to max out Isiah Thomas

I am starting to worry about wanting Mikal for our pick. Since you like him as well.

i dont think anybody should worry about mikal being our pick. Between him frank and KP their defense alone will make us a tougher matchup. Throw in his offense in particular his 3 point shooting I would love to have him aboard

Agreed. Been my pick since this years draft boards began. Like Carter, Knox and Miles as well. However, think the FO is looking for a PG. Maybe they go for Sexton? Hope you and i are right and they pick Mikal. And he turns out to be a good pick. Will be interesting though. A lot of similar talent levels once you get past the first 3 picks.

Dont believe they're going to pick Bridges. Seems more like a Phil pick (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

So the Knicks let Phil draft a player for his system knowing they were going to fire him a week after the draft? Boy your detective work is always impressive.

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

NOthing the Knicks did at that time made any sense. They also had just given Phil a 2 yr extension for 24 mil a month and a half before he was fired. Phil was exploring trading KP because he missed his exit meeting. Phil fell alseep during a pre-draft workout and ended up drafting the kid that didn't workout for nba teams. I definitely think Frank was drafted with the triangle in mind. I also am not sure that he will end up being a point guard. He may play that role sometimes but Perry brought in two more young guys and had Frank off the ball by the end of the season. I think Frank ends up playing 1-3 but performs best next to a dominant, aggressive ball handler. He is young and that could change. His workout tapes look good and maybe he becomes more aggressive over the summer. His age, transitioning to a new country/league, excellent character and work ethic etc. are all things that need to be considered when projecting his future. But I am not sure that it is at point guard. Aside from the Melo trade, Perry brought in four players, Troy Williams and three point guards. Two of those guys are former lottery picks and still young. I think management maybe looking at Frank in a different role from point guard.

Phil exercised his right to the last two years of his contract. It was not an extension. The money was his unless he retired.
Whats this nonsense about "Picked as a triangle player" like he is usless otherwise? Is at guy that can the skills to succeed a bad thing? Was Jordan and Kobe usless as non triangle players if need be? Does frank have to go to some Detriangle reclamation education center as he might not be a PG?
Were Kobe or Jordan PG's? They were basketball players. Frank for all the labels thrown at him for not being "AAU", or "Submissive" is what he is, a physically developing teen still growing who has shown some very good potential that few of us can really see but some can speculate on. Others see him for what he is and perhaps fathom some improvment but not much. Proof? Find an article or a Shump to pivot as proof.
Most of us are just rooting for him, but others are flat out Franco Phobic on this kid for some reason. Kid was taken on potential. Glad we drafted him. Phuch Malik Monk or DSjr!

Exactly. Phil is a coach at heart. He probably thinks any player with half a clue can be coached to play the triangle lol Was KP a triangle pick? Do you think he would've wasted his time with Melo if he didn't think he could learn the triangle? I'll say it again: Frank had the best two-way potential in the draft. That's why he was picked.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

So the Knicks let Phil draft a player for his system knowing they were going to fire him a week after the draft? Boy your detective work is always impressive.

No they drafted him because the league is run by unstoppable PGs. So they drafted a guy who could stop them.

Ntilikina has only deferred to older veteran teammates. When he played with peers he was a scorer who took plenty of shots.

Does shooting 7-10 from 3pt in a championship game sound like deferring? Maybe ask Phil and come back to us with an answer?

I am not trying to prove you wrong. That happens with time (usually 15-20 minutes). I am challenging you. Do better.

NOthing the Knicks did at that time made any sense. They also had just given Phil a 2 yr extension for 24 mil a month and a half before he was fired. Phil was exploring trading KP because he missed his exit meeting. Phil fell alseep during a pre-draft workout and ended up drafting the kid that didn't workout for nba teams. I definitely think Frank was drafted with the triangle in mind. I also am not sure that he will end up being a point guard. He may play that role sometimes but Perry brought in two more young guys and had Frank off the ball by the end of the season. I think Frank ends up playing 1-3 but performs best next to a dominant, aggressive ball handler. He is young and that could change. His workout tapes look good and maybe he becomes more aggressive over the summer. His age, transitioning to a new country/league, excellent character and work ethic etc. are all things that need to be considered when projecting his future. But I am not sure that it is at point guard. Aside from the Melo trade, Perry brought in four players, Troy Williams and three point guards. Two of those guys are former lottery picks and still young. I think management maybe looking at Frank in a different role from point guard.

Phil exercised his right to the last two years of his contract. It was not an extension. The money was his unless he retired.
Whats this nonsense about "Picked as a triangle player" like he is usless otherwise? Is at guy that can the skills to succeed a bad thing? Was Jordan and Kobe usless as non triangle players if need be? Does frank have to go to some Detriangle reclamation education center as he might not be a PG?
Were Kobe or Jordan PG's? They were basketball players. Frank for all the labels thrown at him for not being "AAU", or "Submissive" is what he is, a physically developing teen still growing who has shown some very good potential that few of us can really see but some can speculate on. Others see him for what he is and perhaps fathom some improvment but not much. Proof? Find an article or a Shump to pivot as proof.
Most of us are just rooting for him, but others are flat out Franco Phobic on this kid for some reason. Kid was taken on potential. Glad we drafted him. Phuch Malik Monk or DSjr!

Exactly. Phil is a coach at heart. He probably thinks any player with half a clue can be coached to play the triangle lol Was KP a triangle pick? Do you think he would've wasted his time with Melo if he didn't think he could learn the triangle? I'll say it again: Frank had the best two-way potential in the draft. That's why he was picked.

When you heard Phil talk about the Triangle vs what is being played by many teams today, he usually talked about the Triangle being an offense which required intelligence and quick decision making from ALL its player participants. He was simply looking for versatile and intelligent players, who could learn a system not being played by too many teams anymore, and make the appropriate on the court decisions once they learned the system.

Triangle ability for Jackson simply meant high BB IQ and the ability to learn and adapt.

Nalod wrote:Crush, your sort of right as its a it murky the nature of the last two years of the contract.
http://es.pn/2p9fF4U

Seems more it was a Mutual condition that either could back away. Dolan for all his stupidity does have a history of honoring deals that don’t make sense. I thought H20’s deal was always based on a handshake when he opted out.
Same with Dolan extending Isiah Thomas. In this case there was an out after three years that was done in the event there was a players strike.