Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

buddapaw wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:7 pages of crying and pointing fingers..... get over it already. We should have more draft threads that's 7 pages.... but no everyone wants to sword fight and cup clank

There isn't draft pick in the world that's going to change this fck up situation, it's a shame we have to bring a young prospect into this losing, no direction, system malfunctioning, mess of a franchise we have here.

This is just pure BS!!! Since BJ was waived, Rose went down and Melo was de-emphasized things have settled down and the player development has been going well. You can choose to follow the media tripe about dysfunction but there is no dysfunction at this point. Just a team trying to develop its young prospects.

If you actually paid attention to the team and how they're responding, you'd notice the young players are learning, playing team ball and giving max effort. They're looking better and more confident. That's really what you should be focusing on!!!

Keep drinking that kool aid bro, this organization is dysfunctional starting with the clown who owns this franchise. You cannot expect someone to give their all for you when all you do is tear them down from the shadows. Again I will say this Phil was hired to be the GM, which on successful teams means that the front office is only involved in putting the right pieces together not coaching, the job was to hire the coach and let them do their job. Also so you want to trade Melo, why badmouth him to decrease his value? Again since it is all about developing players, why the **** are they playing Sasha? Please don't tell me that he is there to teach the triangle, I thought teaching the system was the coach's job.

First off Phil is the PRESIDENT and not the GM!!! Get your facts straight.

Second, Melo has been asked to move the damn ball for YEARS!!! You think that crap doesn't eventually get F'n annoying to watch him not do it? It looked like Melo finally got the message last year but no! He went right back to his old tricks. It's not just about HIM!

Third, you really don't know WTF you're talking about if you think Sasha isn't helping the younger players to learn how to play the Triangle. He's a flawed player but he does know the offense and that helps to have a player around that knows it front and back.

I don't get you at all really. These complaints you have are really not core issues for this team. You seem to be totally missing what's really going on. Are you still watching the games??? There are some good things happening despite the losing. Developing players that are part of the future.
Minus the overpaid Vets you can see better effort and execution.

You get off watching a few d leaguers on partial contracts play hard and do whatever is told of them, they have no damn choice if they want to remain in this league. But a guy like BJ,lance, Melo, Rose that have already establish what they bring, those guys want to play to their skill set.

Those young guys can play hard all day, but they don't have the skills or IQ to win games, which is what matters at the end of the day..

WWE HAVE A FKNG DELEVELOPMENT TEAM, WHY THE HELL ARE WE USING A PROFESSIONAL TEAM TO DEVELOP TALENT, people are paying 100's of thousands of dollars to watch a d league sqaud,thats so fckng backwards and disrespectful.

So basically your a "Win now with veteran" impatient kind of guy. Thats ok. Just say it. You want it all.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Yes, they are pre Phil. The thread nor my last comment was meant as a defining "Gotcha" moment. Perhaps some of the other guys were hired by phil.
It really not meant to defend any specific point other than the organization, like many has layers of people and not defined by just one that we focus on.
Some think PHil is lazy, because he is not out scouting. Mills and others do that. Not all team presidents are out there scouting and if they are, they are not notable like Phil, Riles and few others.
My take is that PHil was a starphuch hire without any Exec cred except 11 rings in 20 year of coaching. Riles was a coach, Auerbach was a coach, and Pop before they got executive power. Successful people adapt.
Phil made mistakes, so did the others. What they had was either momentum or assets to build with. And long careers as team presidents. PHil has 3 under his belt.

Is it reasonable to dismiss Phil after 3 years. I'd say some of you think so.

Don't want Phil fired, but I believe its reasonable for Phil to start putting more of his own people in top positions in the franchise. Gaines has turned out to be a great hire. Would like to see Phil making more of them.

Players have their runs, coaches have their runs, and execs have their runs. Some new blood would be a good way to help change the culture.

We have experienced men accomplished in other places. With a focus not on "winning now", these guys can all work towards a goal.
To me its changed over time. We are buidling with youth and making due with just one fist round pick!
New blood need not be if Dolan is not trading our picks for retreads.
No guarantee of anything.......

Why did Knicks not go all in with triangle? Rose was not comfortable and if Phil was told "let the guys figure it out" and they succeeded without full triangle, thats "adaptable".
But if there were holes in the game seen by the master, then its not just a record of after an easy schedule run that should dictate the team culture going forward.
Again, "Phil Files" might tell us what happend this summer.

The only thing these guys have experience in over the last decade is losing. They haven't played a part in moving the needle one inch. The answer cant just be wiping the roster clean every few years and leaving the same execs in place. Makes no sense.

When Phil took the job I was looking forward to seeing him clean house, that never happened. If these execs played no role in all the losing since they've been here, they sure didnt play a role in all the winning either, because there hasn't been any.

I would rather Phil let Hornacek "figure out" what system he wants to run and how he wants to run it and focus more on leaving the mgmt in a better place than he found it.

If Phil quit tomorrow, it would mostly be the same enablers who have given us nothing but losing year, after year, after year. You really want that?

I think your a bit naive to think "Cleaning house" is "improvement". Change by itself is not.
What is in place was two former execs of the year who distinguished themselves in other places. So why did they not succeed in NY?
Does one quick the job when the boss come in and trades everyone for Melo, then tells everyone they are not to blame, but please try to build around this guy?

If a client of mine wants to do something stupid, I can advise them against, but Im not firing them as clients and they won't hold me accountable for their stupidity.

I have mentioned this many times, Dolan and MSG hired MCkinsey to evaluate all phases of the company and told Dolan the league has been "exploiting" the team for years because it desired to trade its picks for players.

The then hired Mills, fired Grunwald and then started to woo Phil. So when I harp over and over about only having one 1st round pick in three, and a roster that did not have much to trade with, then you see the resulting problems phil had to deal with.
Going straight with youth is often not a clear path to success. ITs a delicate balance. Phil has to take chances on players without leveraging the future. It is and was not an easy task.

Perhaps some of you were expecting much more, Nalod is not surprised by any of this and not bugged out either. Sure I'm disappointed in the short results:

1. The first year a tear down
2. Fisher dick guided him.
3. no. draft pick last year
4. Noah's contract.

Actually the only bad deal he made was Noah but when all in, its as part of what might have been a short run team while we continued to build up the asset base. Fans who harp on "Sasha sucks balls" does not understand that we needed some veteran leadership on the bench with 7 new to NBA playes on the roster, at a low price, that knows the Triangle, and perhaps work with the Yoots.

Rose was a great attempt at buying low a talent and trying it out.

Many fans want a pound a flesh when the media tells you "you deserve better". Not sure what that means other than being told something to help lay blame and perhaps "Change" would be "Improvement" and when you have clarity of hindsight its easy to accept the concept.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

buddapaw wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:7 pages of crying and pointing fingers..... get over it already. We should have more draft threads that's 7 pages.... but no everyone wants to sword fight and cup clank

There isn't draft pick in the world that's going to change this fck up situation, it's a shame we have to bring a young prospect into this losing, no direction, system malfunctioning, mess of a franchise we have here.

This is just pure BS!!! Since BJ was waived, Rose went down and Melo was de-emphasized things have settled down and the player development has been going well. You can choose to follow the media tripe about dysfunction but there is no dysfunction at this point. Just a team trying to develop its young prospects.

If you actually paid attention to the team and how they're responding, you'd notice the young players are learning, playing team ball and giving max effort. They're looking better and more confident. That's really what you should be focusing on!!!

Keep drinking that kool aid bro, this organization is dysfunctional starting with the clown who owns this franchise. You cannot expect someone to give their all for you when all you do is tear them down from the shadows. Again I will say this Phil was hired to be the GM, which on successful teams means that the front office is only involved in putting the right pieces together not coaching, the job was to hire the coach and let them do their job. Also so you want to trade Melo, why badmouth him to decrease his value? Again since it is all about developing players, why the **** are they playing Sasha? Please don't tell me that he is there to teach the triangle, I thought teaching the system was the coach's job.

First off Phil is the PRESIDENT and not the GM!!! Get your facts straight.

Second, Melo has been asked to move the damn ball for YEARS!!! You think that crap doesn't eventually get F'n annoying to watch him not do it? It looked like Melo finally got the message last year but no! He went right back to his old tricks. It's not just about HIM!

Third, you really don't know WTF you're talking about if you think Sasha isn't helping the younger players to learn how to play the Triangle. He's a flawed player but he does know the offense and that helps to have a player around that knows it front and back.

I don't get you at all really. These complaints you have are really not core issues for this team. You seem to be totally missing what's really going on. Are you still watching the games??? There are some good things happening despite the losing. Developing players that are part of the future.
Minus the overpaid Vets you can see better effort and execution.

You get off watching a few d leaguers on partial contracts play hard and do whatever is told of them, they have no damn choice if they want to remain in this league. But a guy like BJ,lance, Melo, Rose that have already establish what they bring, those guys want to play to their skill set.

Those young guys can play hard all day, but they don't have the skills or IQ to win games, which is what matters at the end of the day..

WWE HAVE A FKNG DELEVELOPMENT TEAM, WHY THE HELL ARE WE USING A PROFESSIONAL TEAM TO DEVELOP TALENT, people are paying 100's of thousands of dollars to watch a d league sqaud,thats so fckng backwards and disrespectful.

So basically your a "Win now with veteran" impatient kind of guy. Thats ok. Just say it. You want it all.

he doesn't believe in building through the draft or a youth movement...only veterans win apparently lol. Its funny because we did it his way for close to 17 years now and we have been worse than ever. Its time to try and new approach

Did you become a knick fan 17 yrs ago, walsh or ready tried to rebuild through the draft with chandler, mosgov, gallo, tony douglas, what about Lee, nate, Frye after the 23 win (larry brown) season in 2006.

85% of 2nd rounder's don't even make a roster, or are out of the league in a 1 yr or 2, and 50% of the 1st rounder's actually do make a team, and only 10% become above avg players. So tanking for 4 or 5 yrs and pray you find a core of keepers is about as asinine as one can get.

If your not making correct trades and FA signings, your fckng up and you need to go. Im not saying to have a bunch of vets and no youths, but once you get a couple of solid young pieces, you put veterans around them to guide them on and off the court..You don't add more young guys, so like who are they learning from. The blind leading the blind.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Yes, they are pre Phil. The thread nor my last comment was meant as a defining "Gotcha" moment. Perhaps some of the other guys were hired by phil.
It really not meant to defend any specific point other than the organization, like many has layers of people and not defined by just one that we focus on.
Some think PHil is lazy, because he is not out scouting. Mills and others do that. Not all team presidents are out there scouting and if they are, they are not notable like Phil, Riles and few others.
My take is that PHil was a starphuch hire without any Exec cred except 11 rings in 20 year of coaching. Riles was a coach, Auerbach was a coach, and Pop before they got executive power. Successful people adapt.
Phil made mistakes, so did the others. What they had was either momentum or assets to build with. And long careers as team presidents. PHil has 3 under his belt.

Is it reasonable to dismiss Phil after 3 years. I'd say some of you think so.

Don't want Phil fired, but I believe its reasonable for Phil to start putting more of his own people in top positions in the franchise. Gaines has turned out to be a great hire. Would like to see Phil making more of them.

Players have their runs, coaches have their runs, and execs have their runs. Some new blood would be a good way to help change the culture.

We have experienced men accomplished in other places. With a focus not on "winning now", these guys can all work towards a goal.
To me its changed over time. We are buidling with youth and making due with just one fist round pick!
New blood need not be if Dolan is not trading our picks for retreads.
No guarantee of anything.......

Why did Knicks not go all in with triangle? Rose was not comfortable and if Phil was told "let the guys figure it out" and they succeeded without full triangle, thats "adaptable".
But if there were holes in the game seen by the master, then its not just a record of after an easy schedule run that should dictate the team culture going forward.
Again, "Phil Files" might tell us what happend this summer.

The only thing these guys have experience in over the last decade is losing. They haven't played a part in moving the needle one inch. The answer cant just be wiping the roster clean every few years and leaving the same execs in place. Makes no sense.

When Phil took the job I was looking forward to seeing him clean house, that never happened. If these execs played no role in all the losing since they've been here, they sure didnt play a role in all the winning either, because there hasn't been any.

I would rather Phil let Hornacek "figure out" what system he wants to run and how he wants to run it and focus more on leaving the mgmt in a better place than he found it.

If Phil quit tomorrow, it would mostly be the same enablers who have given us nothing but losing year, after year, after year. You really want that?

I think your a bit naive to think "Cleaning house" is "improvement". Change by itself is not.
What is in place was two former execs of the year who distinguished themselves in other places. So why did they not succeed in NY?
Does one quick the job when the boss come in and trades everyone for Melo, then tells everyone they are not to blame, but please try to build around this guy?

If a client of mine wants to do something stupid, I can advise them against, but Im not firing them as clients and they won't hold me accountable for their stupidity.

I have mentioned this many times, Dolan and MSG hired MCkinsey to evaluate all phases of the company and told Dolan the league has been "exploiting" the team for years because it desired to trade its picks for players.

The then hired Mills, fired Grunwald and then started to woo Phil. So when I harp over and over about only having one 1st round pick in three, and a roster that did not have much to trade with, then you see the resulting problems phil had to deal with.
Going straight with youth is often not a clear path to success. ITs a delicate balance. Phil has to take chances on players without leveraging the future. It is and was not an easy task.

Perhaps some of you were expecting much more, Nalod is not surprised by any of this and not bugged out either. Sure I'm disappointed in the short results:

1. The first year a tear down
2. Fisher dick guided him.
3. no. draft pick last year
4. Noah's contract.

Actually the only bad deal he made was Noah but when all in, its as part of what might have been a short run team while we continued to build up the asset base. Fans who harp on "Sasha sucks balls" does not understand that we needed some veteran leadership on the bench with 7 new to NBA playes on the roster, at a low price, that knows the Triangle, and perhaps work with the Yoots.

Rose was a great attempt at buying low a talent and trying it out.

Many fans want a pound a flesh when the media tells you "you deserve better". Not sure what that means other than being told something to help lay blame and perhaps "Change" would be "Improvement" and when you have clarity of hindsight its easy to accept the concept.

So I guess they have a lifetime appointment, is that it? The only thing that matters is the record. If you can point to something these execs (including Mills) have done that allows them to have zero accountability, I'd love to hear it.

All the execs in the NBA, and Mills was the best choice for GM? A former disgraced team president who presided over the worst period in franchise history, who couldn't get hired anywhere else in the league? Thats beyond naive.

Where was the Knicks brain trust to tell Phil that the Noah deal was a bad idea? Where were these execs when Mills didnt sit Shump when he was about to be traded? Thats SOP in that situation, but none of them got on the phone and said " you need to sit Shumpert". Shumpert got hurt, and you know the rest.

Not going to relitigate all the bad moves, because I said that almost all of them were bad moves to begin with.

This is when you usually ask what "mythical" executive(s) are going to come here and save the day? They don't have to be "mythical". Competent and with a recent track record of success, would be great.

As far as McKinsey, they have given some of their clients notoriously bad advice over the years. I would rather have BBall people fix the Knicks than pencil pushers, or yes men.