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BREAKING: Woj: Knicks/Bulls advanced talks for Rose
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GustavBahler
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6/22/2016  6:07 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Beats missing the playoffs 3 straight years with no pick and limited cap space!

Doesn't have to be one or the other. False choice.
AUTOADVERT
GustavBahler
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6/22/2016  6:08 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Look at the pool though.

http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/14/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

If we strike out on Curry, CP3, and Westbrook you wouldn't still jizz yourself ending up with Gordon Hayward and Greek Freak?!

Good god. We are bound to get someone significant if we don't screw up by adding long term salary like Calderon & Lopez again!

We screwed up on Lopez? Never mind, forgot who I was talking to.
Kemet
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6/22/2016  6:08 PM
Another Knicks STUPID Bargani trade where we give up a first-round pick in Grant, plus give up our best BIG-MAN .. FFFFFF the Knicks! FFFFF the worst GM in NBA history Phil dum dum Jackson.
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:09 PM
Finestrg wrote:
VCoug wrote:Fucking terrible trade. How do you give up a good center on a GREAT contract and a decent young PG on his rookie deal for Rose? A guy who hasn't made a single positive contribution on the court since 2011?!?! If we were that desperate for cap space next summer we couldn't have found some team to trade Lopez to where'd we get actual assets back? Or, why didn't we just not sign him last year? What the **** are we doing? Is there any semblance of a plan?

It's a strange move, no doubt. I can't say I'm not thinking some of the same things. It comes off to me like Phil placated Melo with this move, is trying to get the team back to the playoffs next season but is coveting the future cap space more than anything with this move.

Nothing to do with Melo. This is all about capspace and having options vs slapping lipstick on a pig. On face value the Melo/Rose pairing terrible unless both can be Zen'd but that isn't as important as the capspace.
CrushAlot
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6/22/2016  6:10 PM
Broussard said Melo reached out to Rose three days ago but couldn't get in touch with him. I don't think that Broussard has many sources but if this is true the deal has been set up for awhile.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
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6/22/2016  6:10 PM
Don't like the trade. I really wanted us to keep Rolo - he was a much more valuable contract than what we got for him. This is a BAD TRADE if you look at value received. I don't care how many times he has been MVP - he is broken down and declining. Now it helps cap space in 2017 as long as we don't pay him a max deal next year. If that happens I will quit watching the Knicks for good.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:12 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
anrst wrote:Does Rose know the Triangle?
no. this all makes no sense. it's a bad dream.

Thibs used elements of the triangle in Chicago, so there's that. I guess Rose will be comfortable in the offense for the 40 games he plays for us this yeat.

Hopefully he learned something watching Phil's Bulls sweep the floor with the rest of the league teams
meloshouldgo
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6/22/2016  6:12 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Beats missing the playoffs 3 straight years with no pick and limited cap space!

Right because first round exit will do wonders for us when we do actually have a pick

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2016  6:19 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:KP would have been better served IMO with more continuity. Build a team that will attract FAs, this roster is being gutted without knowing who will fill the void for the next few seasons.

We havent had a decent frontcourt in more than a decade, thats gone, who will replace Rolo? He is one of the best defensive centers in the league, in his prime. Howard and his passive aggressive BS? Another retread? Is that really going to help KP's development?

Pau/Noah are far better defenders and impact the game in more ways like passing than Lopez ever will in the same 25mins.

And they are not slow and lumbering on the offensive end.


Pau was a terrible on defense last year and Noah is regressing due to all of the injuries he's had. None of these guys are great rim protectors, but I think Looez has a few less miles on the engine. I'm intrigued by Noah, but i wouldnt count on him providing more than 28 mins a game over the regular season. That means KOQ will need to step big time if the Knicks lean toward Howard, Noah or Pau.

They were not happy with Hoiberg. We know what kind of defense these Bulls played for Thibs
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:22 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Beats missing the playoffs 3 straight years with no pick and limited cap space!

Right because first round exit will do wonders for us when we do actually have a pick

It will help attack top free agents and we will actually have ample cap space to offer. VS hoping for megastars to sign take less money just to try to make he playoffs with Lopez and an aging Melo.

What's It to like?

Bottomless cap space, lottery pick or both
nixluva
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6/22/2016  6:27 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Beats missing the playoffs 3 straight years with no pick and limited cap space!

Right because first round exit will do wonders for us when we do actually have a pick

It will help attack top free agents and we will actually have ample cap space to offer. VS hoping for megastars to sign take less money just to try to make he playoffs with Lopez and an aging Melo.

What's It to like?

Bottomless cap space, lottery pick or both


Phil has made a deal that really has no major downside. Rose balls out and we win, GREAT! Rose falters and we move on, GREAT! Cap space in a great FA market and our picks as well. There's really no way to lose. Also it's possible that FA's will be much more impressed with coming to the Knicks with Rose, KP and Melo on board. It starts to look like a monster team if you add a top FA to this group. I think it's a good move.
Moonangie
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6/22/2016  6:30 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:The only positive of this deal is the tremendous cap flexibility it brings us for 2017.

Think about it: Rose's 20 million off the books. Rolo's 13 million off the books next year, which was a long contract. Calderon off the books. The real free agent class is in 2017. Phil has set us up in that regard. Give him credit for that. I still don't like giving up on Grant but I see the forward thinking in that.

Well, I suppose it makes sense as a cap restructuring move. Not to mention, once DRose gets re-injured and sits out the year, we will suck and lose lots of games, setting us up for lotto pick in 2017 along with mega-cap flex.

**Fingers crossed** it works out that way.
franco12
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6/22/2016  6:31 PM
VCoug wrote:Fucking terrible trade. How do you give up a good center on a GREAT contract and a decent young PG on his rookie deal for Rose? A guy who hasn't made a single positive contribution on the court since 2011?!?! If we were that desperate for cap space next summer we couldn't have found some team to trade Lopez to where'd we get actual assets back? Or, why didn't we just not sign him last year? What the **** are we doing? Is there any semblance of a plan?

had to stop reading this thread with your post - I agree 100000000%

Trading Rolo = a complete 360 on what we've worked on for the last 2 years. What guarantee do we have that Phil is going to get it right now?
knicks1248
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6/22/2016  6:32 PM
nixluva wrote:
shinmen wrote:Pleaaase Nooooo! I Hate this trade.

The knicks lost a promising rookie and will miss terribly Lopez. He was the best screen setter of the team, he blocked on rebounds, provided good defense and proved he could score a bit.
He helped KP a lot.

At best, Rose will break down in January and we will be a lottery team with a pick.
At worst, he'll be healthy, command a max and break down the day after. Amare all over again.

We got bamboozled AGAIN.


No one got bamboozeled! As was explained earlier, this is a move with High Reward and low Risk. If things implode, Rose comes off the books and we have our pick next year as well. So we would have plenty of cap space in a great Free Agent class. There isn't much downside for the Knicks.

The big thing is that Hornacek is having a MASSIVE impact on the construction of this team. If anyone was wondering how Phil would work with his coach, this pretty much tells you he's gonna give him all the support he can to make Hornacek's vision come true. Doesn't seem like Phil has resisted what Horny is looking to do.

yeah i agree, this all about what JH wants, and he want a up and own pace, and some you forget, but when we started out the season running and gunning, and winning, Loepz was on the bench in the 4th quarter

ES
CrushAlot
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6/22/2016  6:32 PM
Bucher loves the deal for the Knicks. Video is down towards the bottom of the page.
http://bleacherreport.com/nba
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:33 PM
nixluva wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:For those who are not aware, point guards like Westbrook, Curry, Paul and Lowry will be unrestricted free agents in 2017 and we will have 60 million dollars of cap space after this deal (and we only gave up Rolo and Grant). Winning!

We had plenty of cap space for LeBron in 2010. How did that work out for us? Just because we have cap space doesnt necessarily mean that we will attract the best FAs.

Beats missing the playoffs 3 straight years with no pick and limited cap space!

Right because first round exit will do wonders for us when we do actually have a pick

It will help attack top free agents and we will actually have ample cap space to offer. VS hoping for megastars to sign take less money just to try to make he playoffs with Lopez and an aging Melo.

What's It to like?

Bottomless cap space, lottery pick or both


Phil has made a deal that really has no major downside. Rose balls out and we win, GREAT! Rose falters and we move on, GREAT! Cap space in a great FA market and our picks as well. There's really no way to lose. Also it's possible that FA's will be much more impressed with coming to the Knicks with Rose, KP and Melo on board. It starts to look like a monster team if you add a top FA to this group. I think it's a good move.

Yea lots of teams will have capspace with the cap increase. Few will have $60mil in a major market to arrack the best
BigDaddyG
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6/22/2016  6:33 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:KP would have been better served IMO with more continuity. Build a team that will attract FAs, this roster is being gutted without knowing who will fill the void for the next few seasons.

We havent had a decent frontcourt in more than a decade, thats gone, who will replace Rolo? He is one of the best defensive centers in the league, in his prime. Howard and his passive aggressive BS? Another retread? Is that really going to help KP's development?

Pau/Noah are far better defenders and impact the game in more ways like passing than Lopez ever will in the same 25mins.

And they are not slow and lumbering on the offensive end.


Pau was a terrible on defense last year and Noah is regressing due to all of the injuries he's had. None of these guys are great rim protectors, but I think Looez has a few less miles on the engine. I'm intrigued by Noah, but i wouldnt count on him providing more than 28 mins a game over the regular season. That means KOQ will need to step big time if the Knicks lean toward Howard, Noah or Pau.

They were not happy with Hoiberg. We know what kind of defense these Bulls played for Thibs


I got that sense, especially after hearing Butler on the Bill Simmons podcast. It still doesn't change the fact that those probably wont be able to play major minutes in the regular season. That means we're counting on KOQ and KP (I've written off Seraphin) to fill in the gaps at center. I like Willy's game, but it's unrealistic to expect him to contribute imnediately.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
gunsnewing
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6/22/2016  6:35 PM
Moonangie wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:The only positive of this deal is the tremendous cap flexibility it brings us for 2017.

Think about it: Rose's 20 million off the books. Rolo's 13 million off the books next year, which was a long contract. Calderon off the books. The real free agent class is in 2017. Phil has set us up in that regard. Give him credit for that. I still don't like giving up on Grant but I see the forward thinking in that.

Well, I suppose it makes sense as a cap restructuring move. Not to mention, once DRose gets re-injured and sits out the year, we will suck and lose lots of games, setting us up for lotto pick in 2017 along with mega-cap flex.

**Fingers crossed** it works out that way.

The options are endless with this deal. Flexibility is huge
nixluva
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6/22/2016  6:35 PM
franco12 wrote:
VCoug wrote:Fucking terrible trade. How do you give up a good center on a GREAT contract and a decent young PG on his rookie deal for Rose? A guy who hasn't made a single positive contribution on the court since 2011?!?! If we were that desperate for cap space next summer we couldn't have found some team to trade Lopez to where'd we get actual assets back? Or, why didn't we just not sign him last year? What the **** are we doing? Is there any semblance of a plan?

had to stop reading this thread with your post - I agree 100000000%

Trading Rolo = a complete 360 on what we've worked on for the last 2 years. What guarantee do we have that Phil is going to get it right now?

I'm not sure I understand your thought process. The point is to make moves when you have something of value. RoLo played very well and so we used him to get Rose on a one year deal. Not only did we improve the balance of the team but there's no real long term risk involved. This move for Rose could also lead to signing another top FA this summer and putting together a really good team. Remember we still have the ability to make a big play in FA. This is just the beginning of the process!!!
Kemet
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6/22/2016  6:35 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Gudris wrote:I like this trade, all he have to do is a pass a ball to KP and we are in playoffs :)
its a better trade if we are guaranteed he will be healthy. The problem with Rose is that since 2012 he is probably the most injury prone

Time to bet on how many games Mr. injury-prone ball-hogger Derek Rose play next season?
By the way .. Porzingis is a BIGGER PROJECT than Hornachek could handle!
Grant is a young NBA player that can play two position, plus Grant is more athletic than Rose
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