knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

when did he say that?

gunsnewing wrote:I guess the one thing I'm kinda bummed about is that this signing took away the aura Me
and others had about Phil taking over and establishing team ball, continuity and a winning
culture.

That's why I have been patient with Phil despite all the boneheaded moves like Calderon.
So I am hopeful that Phil and Horny do share a lot of come ground principles both offensively
and defensively. If we are moving away from Phils philosophies and the triangle
completely then I'm not so confident about Phil as a GM/President.

I'm very worried.

nixluva wrote:Alan Hahn said on ESPN Radio that Jeff was actually Phil's 1st choice and his 1st call but that they couldn't actually get together until last Monday. Also said that Phil was visiting his ailing brother, which is the so called vacation the media was talking about. Apparently tho Jeff was not some afterthought, but rather Phil had zeroed in on him before the Blatt and Vogel interviews. They just happened before he met with Jeff but that wasn't indicative of where he put them on his list of wants.

thats great info ... this whole thing does give me more confidence in phil and his possible willingness to have someone help him make the triangle more modern.

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Mreinman right now we don't have the high IQ, efficient and versatile offensive players for to build a offensive like the GS, the Spurs or he old Jazz. Hopefully that changes with Hornacek. We don't have the defensive players either but if Thibs and Vogel to a lesser extent was here I'd have a hard time beilieving they would field a defensive that is at the bottom of the league.

If we are going to win with offense we are going to have to be flawless. I think you can in that way but do we have the players to play that way? We've been searching for those elusive high IQ players for damn near 15yrs. I'm cautiously optimistic that Hornacek can coach defense and. It just offense like Dantoni. Especially since he was a gritty defensive minded player. There was little defense in PHX but maybe he made the most out of what he had on that roster 2yrs ago. I hope he can adapt to some of the players we have hear who make the effort to defend. Like KP and Lopez for the most part.

This can be a home run signing by the Knicks of it can be another season of watching low IQ offensive players who can't hit an open jumper and bottom dwellers defensively. I guess the one thing I'm kinda bummed about is that this signing took away the aurora Me and others had about Phil taking over and establishing team ball, continuity and a winning culture.

That's why I have been patient with Phil despite all the boneheaded moves like Calderon. So I am hopeful that Phil and Horny do share a lot of come ground principles both offensively and defensively. If we are moving away from Phils philosophies, the triangle and the 11 rings completely then I'm not so confident about Phil as a GM/President. When we hired him I said I would give him some leeway while he learned how to be a GM in today's nba with the assumption that his accomplishments and knowing what it takes to build a consistent winning culture would get this ship righted eventually.

Now I'm unsure if Phil is the guy to be making roster decisions that will impact the next 5yrs like maxing out over the hill players. The same kind of patchwork we've seen over the past 15yrs. I don't know if Phil plans on seeing this through now or chooses to hang it up and work for LA in some capacity. Like Walsh did when he returned to Indiana after being forced out by Dolan.

Maybe this is for the better. Maybe Hornacek can establish a winning culture like Kerr but is Mills the right GM? Will we draft a player of the caliber of Stephen Curry to run and grow with KP for the next 15yrs? Or do we go through enough decade of drafting and signing Isiah type bonehead players?

Lot of questions. We shall see. Looking forward to the presser for some answers at least

thanks guns ...

Hornacek's had defensive problems in phoenix and of course that is often on the players. It pissed the hell out of him how his players sometimes just watched. They went ahead and got Chandler but he is a worthless tool at this point and that looks like it hurt him more than helped him.

Of course we need the right IQ players but part of that is luck and part of that is picking the right ones and part of that is having the ability to instill a high level of IQ bball in your players. Who would be better to teach Grant how to be a high a high IQ guard? Fisher was not a high IQ guard himself, Rambis may not know what a guard even is ... Hornacek is a super IQ ex guard who absolutely maximized every ounce of talent and brains that he had.

JVG reported that JH will not be required to run the (core) Triangle and that he has flexibility to choose. That is both strange and unexpected though I am extremely happy to hear that. Nobody knows what is going on in Phil's head and how much he just likes to Eff with everyone zen style but I don't care. I like how this turned out.

There is definitely room for him to bust but I think that his ceiling is super high. Now he will need to use Phil's brain, get the right players and have lots of luck fall his way to build a winning playoff team.

It seems like many here are upset because they where old school offense fans and now this move makes it look like we/phil may go in a different direction. For all those who believe that Phil is smarter than everyone, did he just get stupid because he is not doing what they would like him to do?

I to can't wait for the presser. Hopefully its not one that alienates the media so that they are pissed off again and scaring off potential FA's. Hopefully phil is learning as he goes. I have not seen him tweet this playoffs so thats a positive sign

lol yea can't wait for the usual suspects to come out after the presser and see how they spin this to turn on Hornacek Lupica, Kay, SAS etc and how I don't mind when Isola does it since He has legitimate beef with Dolan imo but those other guys are a disgrace to their professions

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

Maybe he said that to keep the media off balance. They really had no clue what he would do based on what he said. They all were convinced it would be Rambis!!! Only one guy brought up Jeff early on.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/696799984713396225

Howard Beck has been disturbingly accurate with knick plans for a year now- he predicted all our free agent signings and had Hornacek tagged months before anyone else

he can also be the one who is entitled to the golden leaks.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

Maybe he said that to keep the media off balance. They really had no clue what he would do based on what he said. They all were convinced it would be Rambis!!! Only one guy brought up Jeff early on.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/696799984713396225

Howard Beck has been disturbingly accurate with knick plans for a year now- he predicted all our free agent signings and had Hornacek tagged months before anyone else

he can also be the one who is entitled to the golden leaks.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

Maybe he said that to keep the media off balance. They really had no clue what he would do based on what he said. They all were convinced it would be Rambis!!! Only one guy brought up Jeff early on.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/696799984713396225

Howard Beck has been disturbingly accurate with knick plans for a year now- he predicted all our free agent signings and had Hornacek tagged months before anyone else

he can also be the one who is entitled to the golden leaks.

However he's managed to get his info, he's been quietly the most accurate. All the loud mouths have been mostly wrong. Maybe not being a jerk got him some inside info.

yup ... a real phil payback move

could care less about Isola but the worse the media and phil spar, the more it scares of FA's. Don't wanna have to crazy overpay because phil wants to screw around with them.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:don't get it. with our team, we would have been best with Vogel I think, or Blatt.

I think Phil had enough and decided, let me hire someone with ZERO ties to Knicks personnel.

this is after saying it would be someone with in his circle

Maybe he said that to keep the media off balance. They really had no clue what he would do based on what he said. They all were convinced it would be Rambis!!! Only one guy brought up Jeff early on.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/696799984713396225

Howard Beck has been disturbingly accurate with knick plans for a year now- he predicted all our free agent signings and had Hornacek tagged months before anyone else

he can also be the one who is entitled to the golden leaks.

However he's managed to get his info, he's been quietly the most accurate. All the loud mouths have been mostly wrong. Maybe not being a jerk got him some inside info.

yup ... a real phil payback move

could care less about Isola but the worse the media and phil spar, the more it scares of FA's. Don't wanna have to crazy overpay because phil wants to screw around with them.

Is Phil sparring with them or are they just speculating and making stuff up. Berman and Isola are the worst but Popper just wrote a fictional blog last weekend about Phil's vacation and even Begley and Herring misreport things at times. Also, the media in ny was like this before Phil. The media in ny sucks and Phil calling them out on their behavior hasn't changed anything but at least he said it.

It's really very annoying and Phil was right that it actually hampers his ability to recruit players. The media goes overboard trying to promote the same old Knicks are a Circus stuff. If as Phil said, the media did a more balanced job and highlighted the positives a bit more there would be a chance that they could be writing about a great team rather than doing all they can to perpetuate the bad.

Other cities aren't like this. I can tell you the NY press is WAY more negative and nasty than anywhere else. JR Smith was talking about the pressure from Fans in NY being so much more than in Cleveland where they're just glad to have a good team.

Just listening to SAS on Michael Kay's show and they're saying they're Tepid about the Jeff Hornacek signing and are still pushing the conspiracy stuff about Dolan, Melo etc making Phil do this. Why didn't he talk to Thibs if he went with Jeff? If Jeff doesn't run the Triangle than this made no sense. That kind of stuff. SAS saying Phil is leaving next year when he can opt out. They've toned it down a notch, but not totally.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right now we don't have the high IQ, efficient and versatile offensive players for to build a offensive like the GS, the Spurs or he old Jazz. Hopefully that changes with Hornacek. We don't have the defensive players either but if Thibs and Vogel to a lesser extent was here I'd have a hard time beilieving they would field a defensive that is at the bottom of the league.

If we are going to win with offense we are going to have to be flawless. I think you can in that way but do we have the players to play that way? We've been searching for those elusive high IQ players for damn near 15yrs. I'm cautiously optimistic that Hornacek can coach defense and. It just offense like Dantoni. Especially since he was a gritty defensive minded player. There was little defense in PHX but maybe he made the most out of what he had on that roster 2yrs ago. I hope he can adapt to some of the players we have hear who make the effort to defend. Like KP and Lopez for the most part.

This can be a home run signing by the Knicks of it can be another season of watching low IQ offensive players who can't hit an open jumper and bottom dwellers defensively. I guess the one thing I'm kinda bummed about is that this signing took away the aurora Me and others had about Phil taking over and establishing team ball, continuity and a winning culture.

That's why I have been patient with Phil despite all the boneheaded moves like Calderon. So I am hopeful that Phil and Horny do share a lot of come ground principles both offensively and defensively. If we are moving away from Phils philosophies and the triangle completely then I'm not so confident about Phil as a GM/President. When we hired him I said I would give him some leeway while he learned how to be a GM in today's nba with the assumption that his acomplishments and knowing what it takes to build a consistent winning culture would get this ship righted eventually.

Now I'm unsure if Phil is the guy to be making roster decisions that will impact the next 5yrs like maxing out over the hill players. The same kind of patchwork we've seen over the past 15yrs. I don't know if Phil plans on seeing this through now or chooses to hang it up and work for LA in some capacity. Like Walsh did when he returned to Indiana after being forced out by Dolan.

Maybe this is for the better. Maybe Hornacek can establish a winning culture like Kerr but is Mills the right GM? Will we draft a player of the caliber of Stephen Curry to run and grow with KP for the next 15yrs? Or do we go through enough decade of drafting and signing Isiah type bonehead players?

Lot of questions. We shall see. Looking forward to the pressure for some answers at least

Wow you think you have been patient? Maybe I don't read enough... I haven't heard much from you but trash since that idiot Phil resigned Melo and traded your boy Shump. But yea man... when the wins start coming in you were with Phil all along.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right now we don't have the high IQ, efficient and versatile offensive players for to build a offensive like the GS, the Spurs or he old Jazz. Hopefully that changes with Hornacek. We don't have the defensive players either but if Thibs and Vogel to a lesser extent was here I'd have a hard time beilieving they would field a defensive that is at the bottom of the league.

If we are going to win with offense we are going to have to be flawless. I think you can in that way but do we have the players to play that way? We've been searching for those elusive high IQ players for damn near 15yrs. I'm cautiously optimistic that Hornacek can coach defense and. It just offense like Dantoni. Especially since he was a gritty defensive minded player. There was little defense in PHX but maybe he made the most out of what he had on that roster 2yrs ago. I hope he can adapt to some of the players we have hear who make the effort to defend. Like KP and Lopez for the most part.

This can be a home run signing by the Knicks of it can be another season of watching low IQ offensive players who can't hit an open jumper and bottom dwellers defensively. I guess the one thing I'm kinda bummed about is that this signing took away the aurora Me and others had about Phil taking over and establishing team ball, continuity and a winning culture.

That's why I have been patient with Phil despite all the boneheaded moves like Calderon. So I am hopeful that Phil and Horny do share a lot of come ground principles both offensively and defensively. If we are moving away from Phils philosophies and the triangle completely then I'm not so confident about Phil as a GM/President. When we hired him I said I would give him some leeway while he learned how to be a GM in today's nba with the assumption that his acomplishments and knowing what it takes to build a consistent winning culture would get this ship righted eventually.

Now I'm unsure if Phil is the guy to be making roster decisions that will impact the next 5yrs like maxing out over the hill players. The same kind of patchwork we've seen over the past 15yrs. I don't know if Phil plans on seeing this through now or chooses to hang it up and work for LA in some capacity. Like Walsh did when he returned to Indiana after being forced out by Dolan.

Maybe this is for the better. Maybe Hornacek can establish a winning culture like Kerr but is Mills the right GM? Will we draft a player of the caliber of Stephen Curry to run and grow with KP for the next 15yrs? Or do we go through enough decade of drafting and signing Isiah type bonehead players?

Lot of questions. We shall see. Looking forward to the pressure for some answers at least

Wow you think you have been patient? Maybe I don't read enough... I haven't heard much from you but trash since that idiot Phil resigned Melo and traded your boy Shump. But yea man... when the wins start coming in you were with Phil all along.

Yeah this is not what I have read from you on here but whatever. Glad you are there for Phil.

What did you read? Do you have anything particular in mind that I said at one point so I can try to clear it up by countering it with other things I've said?

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right now we don't have the high IQ, efficient and versatile offensive players for to build a offensive like the GS, the Spurs or he old Jazz. Hopefully that changes with Hornacek. We don't have the defensive players either but if Thibs and Vogel to a lesser extent was here I'd have a hard time beilieving they would field a defensive that is at the bottom of the league.

If we are going to win with offense we are going to have to be flawless. I think you can in that way but do we have the players to play that way? We've been searching for those elusive high IQ players for damn near 15yrs. I'm cautiously optimistic that Hornacek can coach defense and. It just offense like Dantoni. Especially since he was a gritty defensive minded player. There was little defense in PHX but maybe he made the most out of what he had on that roster 2yrs ago. I hope he can adapt to some of the players we have hear who make the effort to defend. Like KP and Lopez for the most part.

This can be a home run signing by the Knicks of it can be another season of watching low IQ offensive players who can't hit an open jumper and bottom dwellers defensively. I guess the one thing I'm kinda bummed about is that this signing took away the aurora Me and others had about Phil taking over and establishing team ball, continuity and a winning culture.

That's why I have been patient with Phil despite all the boneheaded moves like Calderon. So I am hopeful that Phil and Horny do share a lot of come ground principles both offensively and defensively. If we are moving away from Phils philosophies and the triangle completely then I'm not so confident about Phil as a GM/President. When we hired him I said I would give him some leeway while he learned how to be a GM in today's nba with the assumption that his acomplishments and knowing what it takes to build a consistent winning culture would get this ship righted eventually.

Now I'm unsure if Phil is the guy to be making roster decisions that will impact the next 5yrs like maxing out over the hill players. The same kind of patchwork we've seen over the past 15yrs. I don't know if Phil plans on seeing this through now or chooses to hang it up and work for LA in some capacity. Like Walsh did when he returned to Indiana after being forced out by Dolan.

Maybe this is for the better. Maybe Hornacek can establish a winning culture like Kerr but is Mills the right GM? Will we draft a player of the caliber of Stephen Curry to run and grow with KP for the next 15yrs? Or do we go through enough decade of drafting and signing Isiah type bonehead players?

Lot of questions. We shall see. Looking forward to the pressure for some answers at least

Wow you think you have been patient? Maybe I don't read enough... I haven't heard much from you but trash since that idiot Phil resigned Melo and traded your boy Shump. But yea man... when the wins start coming in you were with Phil all along.

Yeah this is not what I have read from you on here but whatever. Glad you are there for Phil.

What did you read? Do you have anything particular in mind that I said at one point so I can try to clear it up by countering it with other things I've said?

I can't think of anything specific but I also can't think of anything positive either. If you want I can find links. Or you could link post links to some of your patient Knick/Phil posts.

Sure I will sift through Google when I get home. But don't expect me to bring up the occasional incriminating posts if there are any. That's your job as as the prosecuter doing the accusing